To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/11/29 07:57
Subject: [K-list] Lets Ground the talk about Sexual Urges
From: Jon-Carl Lewis
On 1999/11/29 07:57, Jon-Carl Lewis posted thus to the K-list:
Some of these comments are for the list, and some are open thoughts for those going through a sexual turmoil such as Tom has described.
Here's some context for the comments:
On 11/29/1999 at 2:49 PM Ville Vainio wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Wim Borsboom wrote, in reply to Tom:
>
>> Dear Tom,
>>
>> You wrote:
>> >I am going through a very very difficult period at
>> >this time with almost uncontrollable sexual appetites
>> >that one part of me REALLY HATES and another part
>> >of me,once hidden I guess, wants to experience.
>>
>> Nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with sexuality. Find a trustworthy,
>> comforting partner whom YOU can guide and by whom you can be guided. Allow
>
>Just to slow this down a bit... people do get weird urges, and it's not a
>sin to supress/redirect those urges.
I'd actually like more details about this before I rush to judgement or counsel.
It is not a sin to suppress or redirect urges, but there is a difference between wanting to fly and wanting to have sex. Perhaps it is the drugs one has taken. Sex is accessible within the normal range of human experience whereas flying is a nice metaphor for sex, but not something most people try from very high places even once in a lifetime.
Let's come back down to earth and out of the ethers for this sex talk!
On 11/29/1999 at 2:49 PM Ville Vainio wrote:
>I suppose weird sexual
>urges could be handled by masturbating and then forgetting about it. It
>might not be necessary to involve other people in it.
Good sex, in my opinion, is all about involvement with other people. There is also such a thing as good masturbation, but that is not what the urge to sex is all about.
Sex is very different for me at 34 than it was at 24. Just masturbating was NOT an answer that was very satisfying for me when I was in my 20s (it worked in my teens, however), and now it is not either because my wealth of sexual experience takes the edge off of the what if? what if? what if?
Sex -- for me -- is a powerful urge to connect with someone else. It always has been. the urge to masturbate is a separate urge, but I only know this about myself because of years of experience with exploring what each sexual act means to me as a whole person and as a person in community. I have found among people with whom I have had candid talks about sex that sex is often an excuse to get naked with another human being and enjoy company. This, of course is not the popular wisdom that guys just want to get off. Guys also want to connect, and sex is one of the few ways guys still have for doing that, whether it is with women or other men.
But before we counsel, we need to know a little more about Tom.
For instance, my experience with bisexual men is that the sort of feeling he has expressed is VERY common (even in these exact words!) when they first decide to face up to the urge to be sexual with other men.
It's quite natural, quite common, not pathological 90% of the time (by the way homosexuality is not a mental illness or aberration anymore; the APA and AMA as well as centuries of common sense confirm this).
However, I do know that I have met heterosexual men who are similarly repressed and conflicted about sexuality. Maybe it's SM play they're thinking of, or even vanilla sex with a person of a different race.
However, my point is that we can discuss sexuality in the abstract, but we cannot give Tom, an individual, good information in the abstract.
Btw Tom, if you want to talk about sex from a 34-year-old, urban male perspective, email me privately (or publicly if exhibitionism is your thing!). I've spent a fair amount of time studying sexuality from a spiritual, historic, cultural and community perspectives and maybe some of the things I've encountered in my ongoing learning process might be of help. Or maybe you might be able to teach me a few things.
Love and respect to all on the list.
Oh, and another comment:
On 11/29/1999 at 2:49 PM Ville Vainio wrote:
>Also remember that
>love (lower-case intended) is more important than sex. Don't let sexual
>urges get in the way of love.
BE NOT AFRAID!
Love is SO much more powerful than sex, that if you cultivate love, sex falls into its proper place.
I have seen many people who are too busy suppressing sex, however, to ever get close enough to other people to even find out what love is about.
On the other hand . . .
I have often seen sex lead people, especially men, especially non-straight men into deeper relationships than they ever thought possible. It's happened to me, and my current relationship is incredibly deep because of the sexual explorations my husband and I have made on the way to our present deeply loving and intimate relationship.
I just want to say I offer these thoughts not to encourage or foster debate, but rather to broaden the field of personal experiences and personal perceptions from which the list can draw.
Yours,
best to all.
Jon-Carl Lewis
jclATnospamswcp.com
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 11/29/1999 at 2:49 PM Ville Vainio wrote:
>On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Wim Borsboom wrote, in reply to Tom:
>
>> Dear Tom,
>>
>> You wrote:
>> >I am going through a very very difficult period at
>> >this time with almost uncontrollable sexual appetites
>> >that one part of me REALLY HATES and another part
>> >of me,once hidden I guess, wants to experience.
>>
>> Nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with sexuality. Find a trustworthy,
>> comforting partner whom YOU can guide and by whom you can be guided. Allow
>
>Just to slow this down a bit... people do get weird urges, and it's not a
>sin to supress/redirect those urges. How many of you get an urge to jump
>down from high places when you go there and see the ground below... just
>thinking what it would feel like to fly a bit? I suppose weird sexual
>urges could be handled by masturbating and then forgetting about it. It
>might not be necessary to involve other people in it. Also remember that
>love (lower-case intended) is more important than sex. Don't let sexual
>urges get in the way of love.
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