To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/11/27 08:01
Subject: [K-list] Ahimsa, Awareness and why is eating meat so bad ?
From: winter mute
On 1999/11/27 08:01, winter mute posted thus to the K-list:
---
Only the gate
of the abbey is left,
on the winter moor.
-Shiki
Dear list,
Have been following the discussion on
meat vs. vegetarianism from the side line,
but have a few comments to make.
They are not to advocate one
side or another, just to throw in some
thoughts that appeared in the mind
when reading some of the old teachings.
As Tony says, the excuses for eating this or that
or not eating this or that are
many. And as has been said, the mind will
always use its own inclinations as a basis for
wants and to keep stretching after these
wants or keep bending away from aversions
it has been inclined or
taught to dislike.
In the Hindu traditions, the conscious mind
is termed chitta and the images and impressions
that reside in the mind are called the vritta
or "mindstuff".
I outline these terms because I will be
mentioning them later in this post.
In numerous spiritual / religious traditions,
including the Hindu traditions,
vegetarianism is advocated as
a "must", the thing "to do" if one wants to reach moksha = liberation.
One reason for meat being such a no-no, is as
many other ppl on this list have
mentioned already,
is the process of developing compassion with
other living beings and refrain from
encouraging slaughter and killing of other
living beings.
Another reason for vegetarianism has also
been that the slaughtered animals extend
what is described as
vibrations of fear or "fear juices"
into the meat and that these vibrations will
thus
"contaminate" the meat and transfer the fear and
animalistic emotions in it to whomever would eat
the meat.
The result being a continuation of the animal
nature, killing, violence, greed etc,
just the sides of the mind one wants to dampen
and get rid of to reach moksha.
There is one other view.
In some Hindu traditions, not only meat
or fish, i.e. matter from living animals,
is considered "bad for you", but vegetal
matter such as leeks, onions, garlic,
chili, asafoetida, vinegar,
all fermented foods, very sweet and
and salty foods are regarded as highly avoidable
as well.
These Hindu
traditions advocate a special diet
mainly consisting of rice, dhal
(Indian beans) and fresh (not
fermented) milk.
The reasons for having this kind of
restrictive diet and
avoid not only meat and animal matter,
but plant food such as onions as well,
is to dampen the
number and strength of the
impressions on the mind, i.e. the number of
vritti that are presented to the mind.
The reason for this, is that the mind
and its faculties is at the heart of the
matter in Hindu traditions when it comes to
the question of reaching moksha.
It is the mind's constant to and from'ing,
the I-want-this-I-want-that-process that
always goes on which is being regarded as the
main obstacles to moksha (collected,
the vritti of the past and their unborn effects
are called "karma") and which must be tempered
and ultimately transcended.
This process of transcending the mind
is the reason
why spiritual vows such as ahimsa (non-harming
in words, thoughts and deeds)
and brahmacharya (divine conduct,
celibacy in words, thoughts and deeds)
have been developed.
Best regards,
Amanda.
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:34:08 Tony O'Clery wrote:
>The trouble with mind is that it is convoluting,
>errant, self-deceptive, and its very nature is to
>doubt and yet grab. Like a baby not reacting to a
>lollipop, for it is in doubt, but when you move it
>away it reaches out and grabs.
>
> I feel this problem is caused by the fact that for
>nearly all people the consciousness is in the lower or
>manomayakosa, even the so-called brilliant
>intellectuals. They are really not intellectuals for
>they are not in the sheath of awareness, the
>vijnanamayakosa. This is why it is futile to argue
>vegetarianism, for example, from a point of view of
>Ahimsa alone. For all you will get are excuses and
>rationalisations for behaviour not legitimate
>argument. Plants do not have advanced nervous systems
>like animals. Therefore it is a step in the right
>direction, it is the intent that is important. It is
>trying to do the impossible in a plane where
>everything is really food of one sort or another. But
>try we must or stay in the intellectualising of the
>manomayakosa, where it all seems so logical,
>legitimate and right. Right in illusion!
>
> Compassion is the essence, not material spirituality.
>Compassion and Ahimsa cannot be learned intellectually
>for they are above even the most brilliant of minds
>and go to the very centre of our being. Awareness has
>to be brought down into this world so to speak, then
>the penny drops. Otherwise it is just the ego the
>thief in the palace that talks and rationalises. I
>am convinced that one can be spiritual and a
>meat-eater for example but I don't really feel one can
>be a meat-eater and achieve Moksha or Liberation, no
>matter the level of intellectual understanding. For
>Compassion and Ahimsa are the nature of the Self and
>cannot be learned only become.
>
>Love Tony.
>
>
>=====
>http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/ (glossary incl?)
>
>Keep on truckin-Chant the Gayatri! Breathe So----Ham!
>
>"God is formless. In order to merge in the formless God,
> you have to give up identification with the body."
>"There is only one 'Soul' and 'That' is God." Sai Baba.
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