To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/11/26 05:08
Subject: Re: [K-list] carnivores/vegetarians.
From: Wim Borsboom
On 1999/11/26 05:08, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
Dear El,
You wrote:
>... inflicting suffering on other beings.
>Stigmata
Nice try, El, sorry, but that is not so, IS NOT SO, EVEN GOD IS NOT SO.
Wrong philosophy El.
Now, one more time...
Suffering is a human *condition*. Suffering is the epitome of
conditionality, IF....THEN ad infinitum. Suffering is conditioned, repeated
sentencing, verbalisation, mentalization. (See previous posts.) Conditioning
is therefore illusion. Suffering is conditioned. Suffering is therefore
illusion. Illusion is *treated as* reality, under threats of conditional
punishment. Illusion does not affect BEING (I AM THAT I AM). Suffering is
illusion.
Illusion does not exist, that's why it is called illusion.
Suffering has no reality , that's WHY we CAN get rid of suffering, we cannot
get rid of reality.
Reality does not include suffering.
Suffering is the threatened pain of not being allowed to throw off illusion.
BEING (plural and singular like the word 'cattle') does not undergo
suffering. Human BEINGS do NOT undergo suffering. The human 'condition'
suffers the 'illussive human', the powermonger with only illusive power.
Power is a construct. Powermongers hide behind constructs and structures of
award and punishment. Tell a powermonger that you will not stand for their
games. E.g. you ultimately are willing to die for truth, love and reality
and their structures, constructs and illusive power(s) will go 'poof'. OK,
it is a bit more complex, but that is only the complexity of excuses that
one uses to not stand up for oneself once and for all. The powermonger
inflicts illusive illusions as sentences and judgements (If..., then...
Award and punishment) on conceptual humans (the threatened human).
EVERYTHING except for the conceptual human persona is untouchable by
suffering.
The persona was invented to give laws clout (judgements, sentencing).
Get what the Buddha said. Whatever he said.
It is not feasible on the one hand to proclaim I AM THAT I AM ness and on
the other hand hold on to suffering. If you do, your proclamation is just
words, lip service. Do not find excuses for suffering as though it is part
of reality. Only IS IS.
One will realize Being when one throws suffering and all excuses for it out
the door, ruthlessly. No goody, goody posturing allowed, no 'feeling sorry
for'.
El, I know, you lost me there before. Compassion and Loving Kindness is not
the same as sympathy, empathy, softy-softy caring: as in "Oh my, oh my, oh
you poor...."
(Ever noticed that Mother Theresa is a strong being , not a softy?)
Yes, I now will get a barrage of arguments. What about this and that, the
current, past and future calamities, etc.? I have personally gone through
all like calamities. I can write a whole book on it, I could make you feel
sorry for me. Please don't.
But what about that then and there? Just stop it, I know the arguments
already, I suffered as long as I held on to all the usual arguments.
Then.... something clicked, I heard the Buddha say "....." and I was free,
very simply free.
So, do not try to convince me of the reality of suffering and how to deal
with it in the usual sorry way. We have already seen that it does not work,
etc., etc. The usual way perpetuates suffering, is suffering. Something like
iatrogenic disease.
Does your stance alleviate your suffering? YOUR SUFFERING?
Do not suffer suffering.
Do not treat illusion as more real than love.
Love is all there is.
If it is not love it is illusion, and that is called suffering.
Love is, truth is, suffering is not.
Nothing can be without love, being is love.
Everything can be without suffering,
Everything can be without illusion, that is why in fact we can get rid of
illusion.
Nothing can get rid of love. Love can only be threatened. All threat is
illusive.
Without love there is nothing... which is a totally stupid statement,
because nothing is not even not.
Love, Wim
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