To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/10/22 17:23
Subject: Re: Meditative trance (was Re: Re: [K-list] Lost mantras due to
From: alingimp
On 1999/10/22 17:23, alingimp posted thus to the K-list:
Ville wrote:
>This is a matter of semantics. For me, meditation is simply a technique,
>which I use to boost my k. There is nothing sacred or special about
>meditation
Are you sure about that? As far as I am concerned, during meditation my mind
gets a break
from constant thinking and analyzing and afterwards I feel rested and
refreshed and my mind is more clear than before. On a different level,
meditation enables me to
find my center, my inner core, that part of me that is not afflicted by
anything that is happening to me. Meditation makes me feel in touch with
that part of myself which in turn is part of something bigger than I am,
something beyond the
"I". Whenever I reach this part, I feel centered, I feel peace and I
feel that I am one with this energy. Therefore, meditation is something
special to me and I am grateful for the experience.
Ville wrote:
(this is also why I don't believe there is any form of "proper"
>meditation).
That's how I look at it, too. There are many different forms of
meditation to suit different mentalities.
Ville wrote:
Therefore I find the ideas how this or that is not meditation
>quite alien. Everybody can meditate, but not everyone "succeeds" in it. I
>use the word "trance", since for me it doesn't imply a sleepy state. When
>I fall in trance, I start to feel all kinds of stuff like lost perception
>of proportions (my body might feel huge etc.), somatic hallucinations and
>curling energy movements. I could call it badadum or zgrah, but I have
>chosen to call it meditative trance.
Well, there actually is somewhat of a definition for what meditation is and
what it is not. You know, all that stuff about the mind supposed to be alert
and focused etc.,
but you sure could name this state of mind zgrah if this suits you better
(zgrah sounds neat, I wonder if it is in use in any language yet, zgrah,
zgrah).
Ville wrote:
>When people give meditation some special meaning, they will interpret
>various trivial hallucinations spiritually, which could lead them astray.
You just came accross some of the pitfalls of meditation, at least from my
point of view. While I think it's neat to have states of bliss and all the
mental pictures etc., I
also think it is wrong to overrate them and chase after them too much. I
don't think the point of meditation merely lies in having visions and states
of bliss. I look at them as by-products.
Sometimes they're there and sometimes they aren't, so what. I believe if you
only chase
after visions and states of bliss you might get caught up in them and
get stuck. But I also believe that those visions and states of bliss do have
at least some value for the meditator, because the mind is pouring out it's
contents and this can lead to insights but at the same time I feel I should
see them for what they are: A creation of the mind.
Ville wrote:
>Well, I have a week-long autumn vacation before me, perhaps I will try
>going a little bit deeper this time. If you don't hear anything from me in
>two weeks, it's probably because it's hard to type with a stray-jacket on
>(joke).
Well, take at least a few breaks between meditating and don't forget eating
and drinking (joke), I don't want you to end up in a straight-jacket. I
mean, don't overdo it and don't strain yourself. From what I've heard, it is
possible to overdo meditation and then who knows what might happen to your
mind...
Ville wrote:
>I haven't even tried any forceful methods of keeping my mind drifting off
>during k. I can meditate even with my mind drifitng off. Usually just
>keeping the back straight and eyelids half closed does the trick.
Whatever works for you is fine. The part about keeping the back straight,
preferably while in a sitting position while keeping the eyelids half or
fully closed, is mentioned in several methods of meditation. I was taught to
sit in full lotus position with eyes shut but I have to admit that I find
the full lotus rather uncomfortable for any extended period of time and I
prefer sitting in the half lotus position instead. This suits me much
better.
Ville wrote:
Still, even the thought of saying "krrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" for
>extended periods of time makes me feel uncomfortable.
Me too, that's not a sound I've ever come across in any mantra yet and I
don't believe I ever will. The sounds used in mantras seem to be a bit more,
well, wholesome and pleasant. I guess that's why they are used as a mantra
in the first place: Because they create good vibrations, literally.
Ville wrote:
>I have seen that the problems during meditation are really no problems at
>all (stopping the meditation is rather easy). Still, however enjoyable the
>meditation, one might start to feel intense fear and discomfort after the
>meditation (the "point" of k was altering the non-meditative states of
>mind, after all). What happens during meditation is really not that
>important.
Sure, I find stopping meditation easy enough, too. Do you feel fear and
discomfort after the meditation or during the meditation? What happened to
me before was that I encountered fear during meditation, not afterwards.
Fear of getting too deep into the meditative state. Fear of what I call the
void. So far, I always managed to go past this fear and I guess that was the
case because my mind was focusing on an object (a mantra, in my case). I
don't believe you have to focus on a mantra necessarily, it could be
something else, a symbol of some sort, for example. I think that the object
is merely an aid for the meditator and some people don't use them at all.
Again, I look at it as a matter of personal preference and not a matter of
"good" or "bad". As for what happens during meditation, it might not be
important to the rest of the world what's going on inside my head, but it
sure is important enough to myself. I got into the habit of simply observing
what's coming up during meditation and taking notes later on. Just like a
psychiatrist would take notes for his records about his patients
hallucinations and other phenomena they experience.
Ville wrote:
>Additionally, fear is a reaction of nervous system just as much as
>meditative experiences, so you can't easily predict when it will occur.
>Sometimes anxiety is not accompanied by anything else, nothing specific to
>be afraid about ("neurotic anxiety").
Like your above statement. Well, after all, whatever I might experience
during meditation, it's all in my head, not really a big deal, but well
worth observing none the less.
Yours,
Karin
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