To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/10/22 09:24
Subject: Re: Meditative trance (was Re: Re: [K-list] Lost mantras due to
From: kim fisher
On 1999/10/22 09:24, kim fisher posted thus to the K-list:
Ville,
reading this I sense a lot of back and forth here what
you seem to have wrote is that you are not too sure
where you go. Correct me if I am wrong.
Meditation is a "mild" state of trance yes.
The state of as you say "trance" is the deepest form
on the spiritually level that one can go. How deep ask
yourself you are willing is the question.
What I seem to have read from you is a from of wanting
to "control" in which causes a hinderance in the state
that you are trying to achive.
In which you add your own limitations thus brings the
so called fear in which adds to the hallucinations.
This is a part of trying to "control" what you are
trying to achive.
It does not work that way.
The statement of "picking a guru" this statement is
another from of trying to control your path for in
what you seek.
"They are chosen and brought to you" you don't pick
them.
Every meditation: ie. trance is scared understand this
is a connection to the source.
Where do you think your "K" awakening comes from?.
Your statement re: spiritual hallucinations tends to
let me understand one thing, you need more wisdom in
this area.
For what may seem to be a hallucination to one is
another level achieved to another "spiritually".
Where do you think the chants reside from?.
Being lead "astray" is the ignorance that one chooses
to take on ones path, this is part of ones free will.
This takes you back to "knowing your foundation".
For we all know that "K" is nothing to play around
with thus when you "try" to hinder anything on a
spiritual level that you are not of a "knowing state".
You will have major physical problems that you deal
with.
Since I have been on this list I have read many
unpleasent happenings due to not "knowing" or just not
understanding.
The lack of the "wisdom and the understanding".
Thus, reading the part of "fear" in which you stated
is an aware fact of not understanding lacking the
wisdom.
GOD, gave us no fear: understand this will allow you
to achive one small step toward wisdom in which will
open a door to understanding allowing no hindering of
the state in which you maybe seeking to help in the
understanding of a partial part of what has been
awakened in your from of "K".
Kim (aka) Allahundra
--- Ville Vainio <vvainioATnospamtp.spt.fi> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 1999, alingimp wrote:
>
> > Ville wrote:
> > >Yes, they are not the same thing. Meditation is a
> *technique* which
> > >creates a state called trance.
> >
> > Sorry to disagree, but proper meditation doesn't
> create a state of trance.
> > It does create a meditative state, hence the whole
> process is called, well,
> > meditation. Meditation is not just a technique, it
> is a state of mind, like
> > trance is a state of mind.
>
> This is a matter of semantics. For me, meditation is
> simply a technique,
> which I use to boost my k. There is nothing sacred
> or special about
> meditation (this is also why I don't believe there
> is any form of "proper"
> meditation). Therefore I find the ideas how this or
> that is not meditation
> quite alien. Everybody can meditate, but not
> everyone "succeeds" in it. I
> use the word "trance", since for me it doesn't imply
> a sleepy state. When
> I fall in trance, I start to feel all kinds of stuff
> like lost perception
> of proportions (my body might feel huge etc.),
> somatic hallucinations and
> curling energy movements. I could call it badadum or
> zgrah, but I have
> chosen to call it meditative trance.
>
> When people give meditation some special meaning,
> they will interpret
> various trivial hallucinations spiritually, which
> could lead them astray.
>
> > >Meditation (focusing) allows the trance to
> deepen. If one lets the trance
> > >take control and "relaxes", enjoying the trance
> state, you can't go too
> > >deep but when you go on concentrating
> (meditating) you go deeper into
> > >trance.
>
> > That's the whole point of meditating: To get
> deeper and deeper into this
> > meditative state while keeping your mind focused.
>
> It used to be the point for me also (actually that's
> how I got my k
> awakened). Nowadays I choose to not go deeper, and
> settle on a lesser
> level of trance instead. I meditate just to boost my
> k, I have already
> experienced Samadhi so I don't have desire to go
> deeper. Though I would
> not complain if I experienced it again.
>
> Well, I have a week-long autumn vacation before me,
> perhaps I will try
> going a little bit deeper this time. If you don't
> hear anything from me in
> two weeks, it's probably because it's hard to type
> with a stray-jacket on
> (joke).
>
> > >Intuition, plus something I have read. I read
> that mantras that have not
> > >been hand-picked by a "guru" of some sort can be
> dangerous, so it's easy
> > >to draw the conclusion.
>
> > You see, my intuition in the other hand tells me
> to keep on meditating, even
>
> Mine also, my intuition was againt mantras, not
> meditation.
>
> > to go deeper and deeper into this state while
> using a mantra to keep my mind
> > from 'drifting off'. I don't believe that a mantra
> has to be hand picked by
>
> I haven't even tried any forceful methods of keeping
> my mind drifting off
> during k. I can meditate even with my mind drifitng
> off. Usually just
> keeping the back straight and eyelids half closed
> does the trick.
>
> > a guru to be effective or that it would be
> dangerous otherwise, although I
>
> The argument about the importance of hand-picked
> mantras sounds suspicious
> anyway. Still, even the thought of saying
> "krrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" for
> extended periods of time makes me feel
> uncomfortable.
>
> > at some point. So far, I've had only benefits from
> using a mantra during
> > meditation and did not encounter any negative
> effects, maybe because I know
> > that all I am experiencing during meditation, all
> the states of bliss or
> > fear, all the pictures I see in front of my closed
> eyes are only a
> > fabrication of my own mind and that the mantra I
> am reciting is protecting
> > me. Should I be afraid of myself or what my own
> mind creates? Well, I don't
>
> I have seen that the problems during meditation are
> really no problems at
> all (stopping the meditation is rather easy). Still,
> however enjoyable the
> meditation, one might start to feel intense fear and
> discomfort after the
> meditation (the "point" of k was altering the
> non-meditative states of
> mind, after all). What happens during meditation is
> really not that
> important.
>
> Additionally, fear is a reaction of nervous system
> just as much as
> meditative experiences, so you can't easily predict
> when it will occur.
> Sometimes anxiety is not accompanied by anything
> else, nothing specific to
> be afraid about ("neurotic anxiety").
>
> Ville Vainio - vvainioATnospamtp.spt.fi
> http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio
> We're all puppets
> The first step on the path to understanding is
> seeing the strings
>
>
=====
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