To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/10/04 13:26
Subject: [K-list] Fwd: BOUNCE from [lobsteredjason1
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 1999/10/04 13:26, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
>Message-ID: <37F8870A.C3E0E2A2ATnospamnetscapeonline.co.uk>
>Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:52:58 +0100
>From: lobsteredjason1 <lobsteredjason1ATnospamnetscapeonline.co.uk>
>Reply-To: arcATnospaminame.com
>To: kundalini-list <kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
>Subject: Re: [K-list] Re: Lobster and Fish
>Wim Borsboom wrote:
>
>> >>...we all see what we wish.
>>
>> And Lobster, this 'sentence' is just what the problem is.
>
>You see it as a problem? I don't - perhaps we all see what we wish . . .
>
>
>> Let's dive right in.... I'll say it again, it is part of that recent new
age
>> gobbledegook. It
>> is sneeking up on us, we need to let go of this "morale nouveaul". If it is
>> not stopped, it may even get worse than the darkest calvinism. It is so
>> pregnant with self implicating guilt, so self insultive, no allowance for
>> freedom of the person, the free soul, our participation in the divine will.
>
>Perhaps.
>There are degrees of understanding. An interest in the new age, magic
>and
>'powers' is just one possibility. The idea of the reflective nature of
>the
>Universe includes ideas that we are the causation of our own being. In
>other
>words it is the reflection which gives God the Being or mirror in which
>to
>manifest. So what you see as new age gobbledegook (which of course it
>can be -
>and trite - and shallow) I see as containing depth and subtleties of
>meaning.
>I guess we all see what we wish . . .
>Of course seeing depth and subtleties is something we all consider
>ourselves
>doing . . .
>
>
>> That word "wish" as expressed in your 'sentence' does not contain any
>> freedom of will at all. (There is also... somebody lurking in the
background
>> who wishes not to be seen.)
>> The statement is indeed a 'sentence' as in 'verdict'. It may in fact be a
>> spell... cast by that 'somebody.
>
>Maybe. It may also be that the wisher and Wisher are one. The wisher
>sleeps,
>seeing only a partial reflection. With greater Reflection more is seen.
>What we wish to see, we may see. We all see what we wish.
>
>
>> The word "we" is plural, might that not be indicative of that hidden
>> tormentor who tells us, "You had it coming. You are getting what you asked
>> for", ....whether you knew it or not....
>
>We all see what we wish. Your explanation is from a therapeutic or
>psychological
>view. As such if people are in a situation that involves great suffering
>to say
>that people have willed this into being would be counter productive. At
>this
>level, those with knowledge but no wisdom are providing 'new age
>gobbledegook'
>as great wisdom. That will always be the way of things. In many ways
>they have
>been shown more than they have the capacity to handle. This is always
>the danger
>of immature or warped individuals providing 'help'.
>
>>
>> He/she then has you close the veil around yourself, the subtle start of the
>> 'mirror' metaphor, the end of your hypnosis.
>> Eventually you get scolded and ridiculed for being so stupid to do this
>> (whatever pain or suffering) to yourself.
>
>We see what we wish.
>The closing of the veil is for the joy of awakening. Only we can awake
>to God.
>God is always aware. Does that put us above God? We see what we wish . .
>.
>Again from a psychological viewpoint to be helped by some 'new age
>therapists'
>can be a ridiculous procedure.
>
>
>> As sad and nervously funny as the snake swallowing its tail. Frustratingly
>> comical as the dog turning around itself ass-backwards.
>
>Perhaps.
>We see what we wish to see . . .
>
>
>> It is actually useless to argue about this, but I'm sure the number of
>> counter arguments that one could come up with are staggering, having one
>> thing in common... that they are replicas of themselves, the same spell
cast
>> over and over again.
>
>:-)
>Kind of reflections of different aspects of our many selves.
>In which we see what we wish to see . . .
>
>
>> Sufferers do not seek and wish their own suffering.
>> ... and certainly not the perpetuation of it...
>
>Do they not? So certain?
>Of course you can not believe this.
>We see what we wish.
>Again from where you are coming from your viewpoint, understanding and
>application is correct.
>How correct? [shrug] who knows . . .
>
>
>> Why do you think I get clients?
>
>People see what they wish.
>What I am saying is the empowerment of your clients is up to you to
>facilitate in a meaningful way. Some of them may be
>too
>weak for that knowledge and responsibility. It would be destructive to
>their
>well being. You must provide them with what? To see what they wish? To
>see what
>you wish?
>To see what is possible and available? To eventually . . .
>see what they wish . . . ?
>If you feel that the New age provides 'easy answers' to complex issues -
>of
>course this is true. Those involved in the New Age are often beginners
>masquerading as sages. Always we should be wary of those with certainty
>and
>'answers'. Often they are comical grotesques. People take them seriously
>- that
>is the danger . . .
>
>
>> Why they cannot seem to be able to stop the suffering?
>> See the spell above or some variation on it
>> The blind have not blinded themselves.
>> We do not choose our own fate.
>> (We do not choose our own parents either.)
>> We did not have it coming... (whatever the punishment is)
>> We do not deserve this... (fill in the negative)
>
>In some situations and circumstances I might say
>"we all see what we wish." and then people might think I believe it or
>it is
>true - that is because
>[did you guess]
>we all see what we wish. From where you are the New Age is superficial,
>glib and
>counterproductive. Sometimes it is a movement to somewhere with more
>depth . . .
>
>
>
>> >>You see my friend...
>>
>> Please Lobster, call me Wim, that's what friends do.
>
>My Dear Wim
>Be Well
>
>Warped Beginner Grotesque
>Lobster
>
Mystress Angelique Serpent, http://www.domin8rex.com
Vancouver, B.C., Canada. Officially the most beautiful city in the world.
8) :D ;) :0 :) ;P ;) :D |* ;) 8D :)
<<<< I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
<<<< than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
<<<< -- Harry Emerson Fosdick
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