To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/10/04 02:11
Subject: [K-list] K & Technology [was: Menopause & K]
From: Martin Thompson
On 1999/10/04 02:11, Martin Thompson posted thus to the K-list:
20:49:47 Sun, 3 Oct 1999
Katharine at Katharine <cliffordATnospammnsi.net> writes:
>> Nature on the material level knows nothing - we are Nature's knowledge
>> engines on that level, so it is important for us to learn. If that means
>> learning from our mistakes, or from tinkering with the machine, then we
>> have to do it. Also, if as many believe, it has been designed for us,
>> then it will be able to take it until we are able to learn from the
>> consequences of our actions.
>
>If it is materail then yes man can play with it.
Sounds like we agree on this.
> If it is of spiritual
>nature it is beyond our knowledge of all the factors involved and should
>not be played with until we do have a fuller understanding. We will know
>when we have this understanding and we will not need to question it or play
>with things that are not ours to be concerned with.
What spiritual things are you thinking of? I have been considering
science and technology, basically. On the spiritual level, I agree, we
seem to know very little, collectively. However, I would add that
ignorance does not seem to be a good reason to avoid trying to learn! It
is my hope that advancing material knowledge will help with this - e.g.,
the information revolution allowing things like the K-list, super-
powerful weapons that cannot be used much without harming the users,
open political systems that gradually limit the powers of the powerful,
and so on.
> Man over estimates his
>importance when dealing with the ego. One of our lesson's in my
>preception is to learn how not to create more karma from our actions of
>ignorance.
>
I don't really understand this. I suppose it is paradoxical: if we don't
make mistakes, how will we learn?
>> Definitely. But this has already happened: many people regret the way
>> the Americas were colonized, for example.
>
>So is it not time to learn from our past mistakes? Are we forever doomed
>to repeat these mistakes? I don't think so. I believe we have envolved
>enough that the mistakes can be stopped now but how is this possible as
>long as we continue with the thoughts that it is normal to make mistakes
>when seeking perfection?
I agree that we are gradually improving things socially (implies
spiritually) as well as materially, although whether we have caught up
with our hunter-gatherer forebears in some ways, I doubt (we are not
generally as contented or relaxed about life as it seems they were, but
on the other hand we are probably less brutal except in certain
circumstances). But then, awareness of these shortcomings is a step to
fixing them.
But is it possible to seek perfection without making mistakes? Even
doing nothing can be a mistake. I read behind your text the desire to
stop material "progress", which is why I'm reacting to it; is that what
you mean? Should we throw in the towel, and go back to the caves and
die? It seems to me to be the very essence of life itself to explore
every possible niche, to try every possible action. The alternative is
death as a life without growth is doomed anyway, and to me, that sounds
like what you are advocating (without realising it, perhaps).
>>
>> But note: every single investigation of Nature from the beginning of
>> time involves messing with something not understood. It is the only way
>> to learn if nobody is going to tell us the answers to our questions
>> directly.
>
>Man still has not learnt the lesson of patience has he? Why keep repeating
>mistakes of past behavoires because we want answers like a small child that
>stamps there feet when they are not getting there way. We are children no
>longer. It is time to move on and leave past thoughts in the past.
>
What use is patience? Who is going to give us answers if not ourselves
and our experiences? We could wait a billion years and still nobody
would turn up.
Indeed, the Universe is 12 billion years old and still we're not
enlightened collectively. How much longer are we going to sit around?
Action! Hut! Hut!
> If anything, our methods of investigation are better and less
>> dangerous today than at any time in the past, as we have a large
>> population of scientists who can examine problems from many angles,
>> including considering the consequences.
>
>Tell that to the people in Japan.
>
I expect they're aware of it. They are, as a people, even more extreme
techno-freaks than we are.
I think that blaming technology is to attack the wrong target. In my
view it is our primitive social and political systems that lead to so
much trouble. People would still be being slaughtered in our social
milieu regardless of the level of technology, at least up to the present
level. Possibly, just possibly, advances in technology will force
adaptations and advances elsewhere. For instance, industrialisation led
to the relative emancipation of women in the West, and is, with
difficulty, and along with the post-modernist philosophy (i.e., moral
relativism), doing so elsewhere as well. Perhaps the relative freedom of
information generated by the Internet will lead to more exposure of
scandalous behaviour and thus begin to act as a disincentive to it. I
would say that the precipitous advance of technology is forcing the pace
for our social and spiritual development: if we don't enlighten
ourselves, we will shipwreck our whole planet.
Perhaps that is what you're afraid of! But I say it is a good thing, not
a bad one. Spiritual development is the whole point, after all. So I see
it as a good thing to be pushing it, whether by technology or otherwise.
> Similarly, we have a vocal
>> public who protest when the investigations get too dodgy - sometimes.
>> And yes, some of the questions being studied have very dangerous
>> potential. But it has to be better to know than not to know. Our future
>> survival really might depend on it. We don't know.
>
>There is no future and there is no past. There is only the NOW.
So there is nothing to worry about.
> In the
>NOW we must have the patience to accept what is. We have survived. We are
>surviing. We will always survive. There is no end in energy, just
>changes in the forms. We will know what we need to know.
>>
As long as we make the effort? Just sitting on our hands saying "don't
worry, be happy," won't teach us much, I suspect.
>> Spirit knows all about us and can handle it.
>
>So......trust in the spirit!!!!
>
I do; don't you? But spirit helps those who help themselves.
>> In a way, I already see them this way. Thus I feel it is important for
>> us to follow our inquisitive nature. What would be preferable, however,
>> would be to try and do so with balance. Neither being afraid to tinker
>> at all, or tinkering without considering the possible consequences, are
>> sensible approaches.
>
>In case there is any misunderstanding above in my words I am not expressing
>any form of fear.
I don't know: it sounds like you fear material progress or material
development, if progress is the wrong word. Is that not what you are
expressing?
>> >
>> Too simple. Fool around, but take precautions! What do you think?
>
>Hmmm sounds like sex......whats that? LOL
>
>On the more serious side : Yes I can see some possibilities when
>precautions and discrimination tools are used with knowledge.
This is what I am advocating. I am also saying that the ignorant
development of technology is not too bad either, as it forces the
development of spiritual knowledge too, if we want to survive as a
species.
--
Martin Thompson martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk
Free Regular Income: http://www.virtualis.com/vr/mthomps4/vrp.html
"Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
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