To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/09/22 09:38
Subject: Re: [K-list] seemingly stupid questions about K
From: Ville Vainio
On 1999/09/22 09:38, Ville Vainio posted thus to the K-list:
On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Martin Thompson wrote:
> >I really don't understand what integrating the ego would mean. With what
> >will it be integrated? Ego is quite simply a feeling, or a collection of
> I don't really know either, of course. I just presume that it would be
> integrated with the greater Self, i.e., all the rest of one's mental
> what-have-you. As you say, Ego is a feeling, or as I like to think of
> it, a collection of thoughts about who we "are". This fictional "person"
> becomes integrated when it is congruent with the reality of our larger
> selves. Well, I hope that makes sense, anyway! Once integrated, I would
> expect it to be experienced as less central, that is, less important. It
> would still be useful for dealing with the everyday world, but it would
> no longer necessarily be thought of by yourself as the real "you".
This is fully sensible, but I wouldn't use the word "integrate". We could
just keep it simple and say that the ego is weakened. The word "integrate"
gives me an idea where the ego is given an essential place in a system,
and that we should embrace the ego. But this is all wordplay. The one
thing we (k-people) should care about with ego is that we should not be
afraid when there is not much ego to be found. Ego should just be left
alone, to die as it's destined to do. We don't have to do any specific
efforts to kill it. K seems to be a one-way road to enlightenment, and it
doesn't ask us if we would like to kill the ego today, or next week.
Ego is romantic stories, family, safety, comfort, safety, fireplaces,
friendship. And yes, nature and life.
> >I don't see the connection between eastern style ego destruction and
> >"social unit". On the contrary, I think "social unit" is a more valid term
> >for a person who is operating on the level of higher ego activity.
> >
> Well, maybe we're thinking of different things here; I'm not sure.
> Certainly, from what I take to be your point of view, a person operating
> at a higher level, the integrated person, will probably be more
I wrote "higher ego activity". More ego => less awareness. So I would not
say "higher level", in general. Even though this doesn't matter. What
level is amoeba on? What about politicians?
> beneficial to society: they may be the sort of person who gets things
> done, who originates change, who solves problems. From my point of view,
Well, that rules us k-actives out, LOL.
> a person operating without any appreciable ego will be a brainwashed
> robot, suitable for doing the tasks society assigns its sheep. So I
I see that people who are low on ego can't be brainwashed, as their Wisdom
is Infinite and They See All (slight irony intended). I can't see the
significance you put to the social status/job. Me, I wouldn't care if I
had to live on welfare all my life (actully, it would be great to get
welfare, it would be much higher than the money students get). My rice
would still taste better than the beef of fat businessmen, and my P2 would
run faster than the Athlon of an ignorant executive ;-).
> >self? The self? Is there a perceiver that is conscious of self? I was
> >thinking along those lines...
>
> Then the philosophy suddenly gets very difficult... I've read numerous
> philosophers of consciousness (Dennett, Searle, Minsky, and others), and
> none of their answers are wholly satisfying. Krishnamurti had some
I think western philosophers are just plain ignorant. The philosophy of
consciousness is simple in the non-verbal form. I think the best thing
western cultures have to offer to philosophy is hard science; physics,
biology, chemistry. Soft science sucks.
Uh, gotta run to learn some Perl.
Ville Vainio - vvainioATnospamtp.spt.fi http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio
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