To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/09/14 00:37
Subject: Re: [K-list] Reactions from the inner 2 yo. ... Melissa
From: Smilingjaguar
On 1999/09/14 00:37, Smilingjaguar posted thus to the K-list:
In a message dated 9/13/99 9:42:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk writes:
> I have no problem with people believing things. It just irritates me
> when the beliefs are written as if they were facts that apply to
> everyone.
They are very strong medicine. Sometimes I like, sometimes I am revolted.
But I examine my revulsion carefully, because that indicates to me where my
problems lie. It is easy to get caught up and blame the messenger, but wiser
to look inside oneself.
> >To find one's own truth and hold on to it is an honorable thing. To be
> able
> >to share with confidence, but not absolute "this is how it is for
everyone"
> >is greatness.
>
> And that is the point I was making. Leaving out qualifiers implies (to
> me) that the writer is making a statement of "fact,"
Not really. I tend to leave out qualifiers as they are no longer needed.
Seems unnecessary to have to put all those extra words in every time when the
truth is that everything is opinion, nothing is fact. Everything
changes...what is truth today may be tomorrow's garbage.
> Indeed, even when people are writing things that are what we generally
> accept as "facts," it is fair to say that they probably are not facts at
> all in many if not all cases. So even though on the conscious level I no
> longer automatically believe what I read (as I trustingly did when I was
> younger), that "reading and believing" circuit is still there, and gets
> triggered by text written as if it was stating facts.
I learned about that long ago...and for some reason seem to distrust things
written to be fact more than written as opinion, perhaps because things
written to be facts try to convince you of things, where opinions challenge
you to a choice.
> > We all talk from our experience. Personally, I take everything
> >everyone writes here as opinion or conclusion from personal experience,
and
> >subject to be different in us all.
>
> I think that is a good approach and I do that in practice, but it
> requires a double-check on my part when it isn't written that way in the
> first place. I suppose that annoys me.
I could see your point in that. It's a fair point of view.
> No; it just requires respect for other people's views (in my view).
> > I
> >> think that this Universe operates using a system of survival of the
> >> fittest, and realism is therefore implicitly demanded by that goal. To
> >> me, realism equates to truth, which I think of as very important for
> >> everybody's spiritual growth (although the left-hand path is always
> >> available too). Maybe that's just a personal foible, or do others feel
> >> the same?
Survival of the fittest? Hmm...as far as humans go, I don't think so...I
think it goes "Survival of the richest". But if realism equates to truth,
and everyone's truth is bound to be different, yet valid, then there can
never be a universal definition of realism, reality, or truth. And I'm
perfectly happy with that.
> Exactly what I was suggesting with my talk of writing using qualifiers,
> although your suggestion (which I interpret as advice to ignore the
> issue) is more tactful perhaps. But CW asked Melissa a question, and my
> thoughts on it seemed relevant, so I wrote. It isn't intended as a
> personal swipe, just a comment. And I'm interested in hearing his view
> too.
Not ignore the issue...how to put this....perhaps realize that he may not be
the issue. Would you like to be drug into the street like Chris has been
done? I think a certain amount of consideration is in order. Could this
have been done just as well privately, or is the effect better in front of
400 people? I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in tact.
Perhaps an odd thing in this day and age, but I do. I'd like to hear Chris'
opinion on this too; I've been where he is, it isn't fun, but neither is it
your on fault either. Something rubbing someone else the wrong way doesn
not have to be the fault of anyone...and surely does not equate to public
criticisms on style and language use as though he was a third grader. Chris
has a lot to offer this forum, as do you, if you could learn to live and let
live.
> Fair comment. I just threw that in as an extra. As I said, I try to
> treat it as a matter of style, which it probably is anyway, but I
> haven't quite convinced my inner reading machine of this, hence my
> comment. I'm not suggesting that anyone stop writing, or even
> necessarily change their style: what is, is. It is just something to
> think about, that's all. A possibility.
Understood in that light...
Kimberly
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