To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/09/03 09:50
Subject: [K-list] Re: Mystery School paths, entheogens
From: Ville Vainio
On 1999/09/03 09:50, Ville Vainio posted thus to the K-list:
On Fri, 3 Sep 1999, Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote (in reply to me):
> >On 1 Sep 1999, Bob Maurer wrote:
> >
> >> People who have activated certain potentials without
> >> understanding are in a highly suggestible state.
> >> Unfortunalty there is never a lack of persons who are
> >> more than willing to dominate them by providing them
> >> with superstitious memes and archetypically charged images
> >> which only reinforce these delusional patterns.
> Judging Occultism as an inferior path is showing lack of faith in Divine
> Will. Limitless manifestation needs every kind of people, Witches and
> Buddhas both. All roads lead to Rome, because K. is stronger than any
> temporary beliefs in limitation. Take a random survey of how many ex-cult
IMHO, limitless manifestation doesn't *need* witches or buddhas any more
than it needs any other group of people/things (I guess you know, just
reiterating). It just exists, we are in it as much as rocks, rivers and
trees are. Spiritual understanding is for our personal good alone, so it's
in a sense purely selfish despite being self-less (OTOH, nothing is
selfish as there is no self).
> I tend to think some of what is labeled "occult" mysticism tends to get a
> bad rap because it is taken out of context and misunderstood. "Occult" is
> just another word for "secret", and folks usually keep secrets coz they
Actually, occultism is perhaps more familiar to man-on-the-street than
oriental religions. By occultism I mean astrology, spiritism, wicca etc. I
once went to a local "spiritual center" which was supposedly found under
love of Ananda Moyi-Ma... I asked whether there were K-aware, and there
were none. BUT, most of them seemed to play with astrology, telling
future, whatever.
> It is really only the workings of the lower chakras that fit readily into
> "Teaching", the higher ones are indescribable.. yet in my comparative
> studies of world religions, it really does seem like "All roads lead to
> Rome". The paths may be different, but the destination is the same.
I have read a book published by scientologists. I don't know whether
scientology is really a religion, but the direction they are pointing at
is far from the truth ;-).
I would assume that if I had been christian (old-school) when my K
awakened, I would have suffered even more. So yes, IMO, some religions are
more accurate with the finger-pointing-to-the-moon than others.
> When the Student is ready, the Teacher appears. Students choose their
True, but IMO in the sense that when the student is ready, he no longer
needs a teacher (student becomes a teacher). I would say empathy-feedback
may be distracting from the path, man being a social animal and prone to
twist their mind to appear worthy to the teacher. Violence-feedback of Zen
masters is another thing ;-).
> duality. Generally they teach students the power of their own free will,
> first, to get them past the cultural victim attitudes and into a healthy
> self-confidence. Most students who would attend an "occult" Mystery
Sounds like a "boost your confidence" course taken from Reader's Digest.
> School are not necessarily seeking enlightenment. More likely they are
> seeking power. However, Goddess always wins.. power is a carrot, that draws
> them in, but they find surrender pretty quick when they get a taste of
> power, and discover what goes around comes around. Then, they learn the
> wisdom of surrendering the choices their free will would make, to Divine Will.
It's far too true that buddhism has no carrot to speak off. Getting rid of
desires or ignorance means nothing to people who feed on desire and don't
see their ignorance. Occultism seems easily more tempting, while buddhists
are sometimes thought to be sad tossers, who don't even get laid.
Perhaps the right-hand-path carrot today is alleged health benefits of
yoga.
> power of thought and perception, and is grounded in the wisdom of
> surrender, they are well prepared to have the K-fire itself carry them thru
> the wordless mysteries of the higher knowledge.
It would seem that K-fire itself burns the way through even an unprepared
mind. With a bit (or a lot) more pain, though.
> >This is what I myself have also pondered... Since these experiences seem
> >to be little more than "tripping" on meditation instead of psychedlic
> >drugs, and the talents are basically occultism, which is not (IHMO)
> >compatible with more evolved religious ideas.
> This is an openly multi denominational list. Not everyone on the list is
> a Zen Buddhist, we also have Christians and Witches and agnostics and every
> kind of people, including those who dabble in the shamanic ways of
> entheogens. The list guideline is "every path is perfect for the person who
I have some experience with entheogens myself, and I would say "shamanic"
is a wrong word. Entheogens have the potential to catapult one all the way
to Samadhi for a while. Shamanism doesn't deal with samadhi, but healing,
nature, spirits, what you have. I have some friends who still use
entheogens, and they are the only people I know (in "real life") who have
some understanding for spiritual things. I didn't say that there was
something wrong with entheogens, just that meditation, as well as
entheogens, shouldn't be used exclusively for "tripping", that is,
hallucinating. But, this being a K-list, I assume entheogens are not
useful here. I wouldn't dare, nor would I want to, take any hallucinogen
any more.
> is on it".. non-judgment is kind of a requirement for a multi
> denominational list. Otherwise the result is Holy wars.
I sometimes find spiritually judgemental arguments refreshing, as they
provide a way to "test" one's views, whether they hold under pressure.
> Kundalini has often been compared to Schizophrenia, and the therapy
> for Schizophrenics is to support them in their process, give their
> impulses and delusions approval and validation so they remain in a
> positive state, and not judge them or try to change their passing
> obsessions with aggressive intervention. Their own unconscious knows
Aggressive intervention is often used in religious training, however. If
you show pride or cling to various things, you will be corrected. It's a
part of the onion-peeling process you mention in another post. But I guess
this is for paths who aim at enlightenment without K, or are trying to
awaken K through means different from meditation.
> what it is doing, better than a hundred psychiatrists, and with gentle
> support the process completes itself and an old damaged ego is gently
> traded for a shiny new whole one.
> I think it is the same with K.
At least for initial stages. When one recovers, spiritual arguments can be
refreshing. It's always a great rush trying to put something in words and
realizing it's useless.
> Kundalites are generally led to the list by synchronicity, and that same
> synchronicity will always make sure they get whatever their process needs,
> in the moment.
What is this synchronicity? I don't really know this phenomenon.
Let's remember that some people die because of K, usually through suicide.
>
> >> There is nothing spooky about mysticism. Kundalini
> >> without realization is deviated and less than worthy.
> And Realization without grace and compassion is a cold fish.
And a cold fish is as beautiful as a warm fish.
Ville Vainio - vvainioATnospamtp.spt.fi http://www.tp.spt.fi/~vvainio
* "Vi doede ikke
* Vi ha aldri levd" - Burzum
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