To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/07/31 12:11
Subject: [K-list] the missing mail:K- list was down yesterday..
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
On 1999/07/31 12:11, Mystress Angelique Serpent posted thus to the K-list:
The K-list went down yesterday afternoon.. I dunno why, but it's back up
now, so here is a collection of the missing mail.
Please cut and paste to respond.. snipping is in "service to other".. :)
I have been busy updating the FAQ for the K-list, and I would appreciate
your time to read it, for your own information.
http://www.list-server.net/kundalini/k-list_faq.html
Comments are welcome, please send them directly to me
<serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>.thankyou.. the List Mystress.
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:11:11 +0000
From: Maureen Heffernan <morlightATnospammhonline.net>
Reply-To: morlightATnospammhonline.net
Organization: Mountain Light of Antioch /"Hands of Holy Fire"
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-mhonline (Win95; U)
To: k <kundaliniATnospamlist-server.net>
Subject: Re: Celibacy Women
> > Your experiences are that celibacy has increased
> > spiritual practices / growth ?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Amanda.
> ~~*+M~*
> Tremendously so.
These experiences and my personal "Dark Night" ,I might write of at
another time.
.......................................................................
From: "Dave" <luckyguyATnospammindspring.com>
To: "kundaliniATnospamList-Server. net" <kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
Subject: RE: [K-list] Celibacy,Women
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:29:39 -0400
Reply-To: "Dave" <luckyguyATnospammindspring.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
[mailto:owner-kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net]On Behalf Of Maureen Heffernan
Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 9:21 AM
To: k
Subject: [K-list] Celibacy,Women
Gopal :
> just to add there is no requirement of celibacy in women & even if
> celibacy
> is practiced it is of no use."
~~*+M~*
just to respond, having lived many years of celibacy, you have no idea
of what you're trying to talk about.
Offered affectionately,
+ Maureen
Dear Maureen,
If this makes you happy, then I do not want to dissuade you. As for anybody
else, male celibacy
has always been more emphasized in the esoteric literature I have read.
Women are lucky in this way.
Somewhere I have read that women have six times the reproductive energy of
men. IMO, if you are female don't worry about it. I hope I haven't stepped
on anybody's toes. I would like to know how female celibacy(depending on how
you define it) is of use on a spiritual path. (Said with the most delicate
and humble tenor.)
Namaste,
Dave
.......................................................................
From: "Deidre Baker" <dbaker53ATnospamhotmail.com>
To: "Dominic & Maureen Marando" <chelseaATnospamsuperaje.com>,
<kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
References: <199907301558.LAA20438ATnospamsuperaje.com>
Subject: Re: [K-list] conversations with God
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:47:51 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Hi....yes I have also read the books.....#3 is my favorite....they impacted
me greatly as I was never brought up closely tied to a specific organized
religion...they made me feel normal!! :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dominic & Maureen Marando <chelseaATnospamsuperaje.com>
To: <kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 8:58 AM
Subject: [K-list] conversations with God
> Hi everyone,
> Whew, sure is hot!
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in hearing how many people have read any of the
> "Conversation with God" books and what you think about them.
> If any of you know much about the author etc.
> Just interested in your perspectives as k-ites.
> I'm on book three right now.
>
> Namaste,
> Mo
>
>.......................................................................
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:02:13 -0500
To: "A. Erhart" <mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com>
From: Dharma <fisher1ATnospamstic.net>
Subject: Re: [K-list] Dark Night Of the Soul / Col
Cc: kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
Hi Amanda,
>I still cannot completely understand the DN, as
>personally there were absolutely no expectations of
>god previously. Prior to the age of 6 I
>heard about god and tried to believe to please my
>parents and teachers, but there was absolutely no god
>to be found anywhere.
I asked them all about God, but I never could believe just because someone
else said so... or because I read it in a book.
>At 6 I became an atheist, I resolved to live my
>life without god and without seeking any.
>It was not scary, it was being true to oneself.
>
>One afternoon K showed me god and I believed. It was
>surprisingly easy to leave old belief systems behind.
>I did not even feel ashamed like I thought I would be if
>I ever had to give up atheism. But I was angry at god
>for him not having shown himself earlier in this life-
>time and in the previous when I really needed a god.
>He then showed me he had been there all along, without
>me knowing about it, everywhere and in everything, I
>just hadn't seen it.
When I was 13, I finally decided there was only one thing to do - ask God.
If God existed and was really good and really cared about individuals, then
he would answer. Then I believed... but in the next week I lost it... I
could not believe just because of a warm feeling and a momentary
conviction. So I talked to him again... explained that I would never be
able to believe without something concrete... something real that I could
not doubt. And he answered.
>That was a good enough answer for me, as leaving god had been a conscious
>choice some-
>where along the line.
>I know I can live without the notion of god if the DN ever comes.
When I went into the All at 27, I did not find a personal God. After that,
the world was transformed, divinity is everywhere, everything flashes out
of and into the All... at every moment.
I could never doubt what happened when I was 13, but I had to find a new
way to understand it.
I don't think I have experienced a Dark Night of the Soul... I don't think
I could, because I cannot doubt what I know to be true, what I've
experienced. At the darkest moment, when I had a breakdown, I began
looking to see what I knew was real... what I could hold onto. I found
two real things: daily life (chop wood, carry water) and the All.
Love,
Dharma
.......................................................................
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:10:48 -0500
To: "A. Erhart" <mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com>
From: Dharma <fisher1ATnospamstic.net>
Subject: Re: [K-list] The wonder of exhalation
Cc: kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
Hi Amanda,
>>Colette:
>>Well if anyone want to talk about the shruti (hum of the universe only heard
>>by inner alertness) I am all ears!
>
>;))
>
>Amanda:
>Is the hum preceded by a great silence, as if someone
>stuck their fingers in your ears ?
I usually have noise in my ears, of one kind or another. But sometimes one
ear (occasionally both at once) will go completely silent... as you say,
just as if it were plugged up... and then I hear a clear tone. Sometimes
it seems to be a signal or reminder to me from my spiritual guru, my inner
guide. But usually I lie down immediately for meditation and concentrate
on the tone... just hear the tone... go with it.
I have a post from a student of Nityananda's who was on Harsha's list...
the post is on the yoga of the inner sound... the shabda. And there's
another one on Matrka (the power of sound inherent in the letters of the
alphabet). I'd be glad to send them to anyone... just drop me a private
email.
Love,
Dharma
.......................................................................
From: "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hlutharATnospambryant.edu>
To: "'A. Erhart'" <mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com>, <kundaliniATnospamlist-server.net>
Subject: RE: [K-list] Indian K-ites, was: celibacy
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:39:03 -0400
:) Harsha, I hope this isn't too forward or too silly
for me to ask, if it is, please forgive me:
from your knowledge and experience,
what do ppl in the tradition you belong to
do with K once it is ignited ?
Do you ignore it or actively work with it ?
Do you leave it all up to K to find the way ?
Best regards,
Amanda.
Hello Amanda. My teacher had no strict rules, guided in a relaxed way, and
allowed the students to follow their natural inclinations in meditation. I
was given a method to meditate on the Sahasarara with the use of mantra and
visualizations. I also used pranayama and mantras and visual meditations on
the other centers for some years along with my primary meditation. One can
either actively work with Kundalini Shakti or allow the Shakti to find Her
own way. Many people alternate between the two approaches, which seems to
work fine as well.
Harsha
.......................................................................
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:25:28 -0500
To: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
From: Dharma <fisher1ATnospamstic.net>
Subject: Re: [K-list] Celibacy,Women
Cc: kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
Hi David,
>May I offer that you are both 'right'?
>
>We are each where we need to be.
>Celibacy for some could be quite harmful.
>
>If celibacy results naturally, without effort, it is more likely
>an effect of a greater process rather than an individual's conscious
decision.
>(despite the fact it may seem that way)
>
>About five years ago I chose to lead a healthy lifestyle.
>Though it seemed that I chose this life style, I know that it
>was chosen for me. : )
Interesting... I don't think celibacy is necessary or even advisable ...
unless one feels it's the right thing for him... but I say that, having
been physically celibate for 12 years or so. :)))
I thought it was because of the danger of AIDS. :)
Love,
Dharma
.......................................................................
From: "Munagala Neeladrirao" <neeladri_raoATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
Subject: [K-List]Visions come at a price?
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:40:00 PDT
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Visions come at a price?
Like everybody else perhaps I crave for visions, minor and major. But I
don´t know if visions really help in advancing on the spiritual path. I
don´t believe in the usefulness of visions such as predicting the future
etc. I want visions just for the joy that they bring with them - I am not
talking about the darker visions here.
I encountered many times dream-beings telling me things like "if you want
that vision, that costs you this much, if you want this, it will cost you
this". Today I had a minor vision which was followed by some being telling
me that I have spent too much "money" on that vision and that it is not
worth it. This happens too many times.
That makes me wonder whether we are ‘buying´ visions spending some spiritual
"currency" - may be Ojas or something similar. If so, why should I crave for
visions which involves spending the "money" that I am working hard to save.
Is a vision helpful in itself? Any remarks?
____________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
.......................................................................
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:41:38 +0000
From: Maureen Heffernan <morlightATnospammhonline.net>
Reply-To: morlightATnospammhonline.net
Organization: Mountain Light of Antioch /"Hands of Holy Fire"
To: k <kundaliniATnospamlist-server.net>
Subject: (no subject)
> Needless to say, it would be harmful to judge and evaluate
> the spiritual progress of others & ourself based on any criteria,
> including this one.
>
> Offered affectionately,
> David
~~*+M~*
Yes David, it certainly is not for everyone. But I do not agree that
it is harnmful to evaluate myself based on this criteria.Sexual celibacy
enhanced my spiritual progression.It demanded effort. It also led to my
pratice of a day of speech celibacy where I do not speak for that day.It
is because I evaluated the results that it was worthy of continuing.For
me it was of great use, because now, it is just simply a part of me. A
way of life.
When I read Gopal's words , > of celibacy in women & even if
> > > celibacy
> > > is practiced it is of no use."........
to me this was as silly as saying,,,to have eyes to see, it is of no
use. But I make no blanket statement in deciding what is best for
others. You're right, it is individual.
Thank you both for your input,
In Loving Light,
+ Maureen
.......................................................................
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:46:48 EDT
Subject: Re: [K-list] Buddhist Nun
To: mumblecatATnospamangelfire.com
CC: KundaliniATnospamlist-server.net
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214
HELLO AMANDA AND LIST: Just thought l'd offer that the Tibetan Buddhist
nun of whom you spoke is Tenzin Palmo, the English woman who described her 12
yrs in a remote cave in the Himalayas in her book CAVE IN THE SNOW. l found
her story to be quite inspiring and her commitment to her spiritual growth
awesome. The book is also highly readable. The only thing that disappointed
me somewhat is that she chose not to say very much about her meditation
experiences, observing a code of silence that is fairly common in the Tibetan
tradition. But you come away from this book filled with admiration for her.
l suppose this has some relevance to the topic of celibacy as an
extreme practice. Jill and l have both offered previously that in both our
cases celibacy has been an involuntary aspect of our k journey in the sense
that sexual functioning has automatically changed. One can certainly view
this as extreme, particularly in western culture, but it can't be judged any
more than can Tenzin Palmo's 12 yrs in her cave--it's simply one's path.
Palmo, incidentally, since leaving her cave has been very active out in the
world, establishing a monastary and doing other things to help the plight of
women following the Tibetan path. jerry
.......................................................................
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:24:38 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
Organization: InkBlot Poetry -
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/3908/index.html
To: "kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net" <kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net>
Subject: Re: [K-list] Celibacy,Women
Dharma wrote:
> I thought it was because of the danger of AIDS. :)
If that's so then you must quit smoking I presume. : )
.......................................................................
From: "Munagala Neeladrirao" <neeladri_raoATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
Subject: [K-list]Visions come at a price?
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:16:58 PDT
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Visions come at a price?
Like everybody else perhaps I crave for visions, minor and major. But I
don´t know if visions really help in advancing on the spiritual path. I
don´t believe in the usefulness of visions such as predicting the future
etc. I want visions just for the joy that they bring with them - I am not
talking about the darker visions here.
I encountered many times dream-beings telling me things like "if you want
that vision, that costs you this much, if you want this, it will cost you
this". Today I had a minor vision which was followed by some being telling
me that I have spent too much "money" on that vision and that it is not
worth it. This happens too many times.
That makes me wonder whether we are ‘buying´ visions spending some spiritual
"currency" - may be Ojas or something similar. If so, why should I crave for
visions which involves spending the "money" that I am working hard to save.
Is a vision helpful in itself? Any remarks?
.......................................................................
From: "Christopher Wynter" <wynterATnospambigpond.com>
To: <KundaliniATnospamlist-server.net>
Subject: Celibacy ... Women ... and Men
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:40:32 +1000
The truth of celibacy ....
has been lost within the dogma of western mystecism ...
Celibacy as it is most often seen ...
is the 'enforced' denial of external sexual response ...
enforced because it is placed as a 'code of conduct' for those seen as priests
and priestesses ...
the NEED for external sexual gratification with another diminishes with
'enlightenment' ...
and becomes an expression of 'communion in consciousness' ...
thus celibacy is the 'outcome' not the path ... (outcome is a bad choice of
words ... but there are none that suffice more exactly in duality ...)
people saw celibacy as a means of control and regulation ...
so it became a mandatory discipline ...
primarily because the energy of 'divinity expressed through being'
arouses first within 'other' the base/sacral region ...
and this is interpreted by 'other' as a sexual response ...
which can lead to the 'priest/master/guru', if not yet fully aware ...
taking sexual advantage of 'the other' ...
because he mis-interprets his feeling as a sexual reaction
rather than an empathetic response and he
feels the other's body through his/her own.
For one on the spiritual path to enforce 'celibacy' on the path (without the
conscious understanding of why) is to immediately go into denial of their own
'sexuality' ... and their 'lifeforce' energy ... of which sexuality is the
outward and downward expression ...
to judge and mis-interpret the first symptom of Kundalini rising as 'sexual'
(because that is what was taught) ...
and judge it as wrong ... because that is the teaching of (past) religious
dogma
and thus to repress with the mind ...
the action of K through the body ...
and subject the body
to the pain resultant from that denial ...
which is experienced often in the back of the head and in the neck (headaches
etc) ...
where it is reflected to from the sacrum ...
because in western society, we have been taught that we should not feel
anything
in our bodies from the neck down ...
The cosmic joke is that the true HEART
can only be fully opened by energy rising from the base ...
and that energy coming from above ...
will only give you half a heart ...
True gentleness can only be built on a firm foundation ...
With Respect
Christopher Wynter, Hobart Tasmania
wynterATnospambigpond.com
http://www.anunda.com
.......................................................................
From: "Fran Frankfort" <larelsprngATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundaliniATnospamlist-server.net
Subject: site regarding plants
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 03:55:48 PDT
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hello!
> >I am very connected to the plant kingdom and don't know any
> >esoteric secrets except what I have experienced and what I feel.
>
There is a nature research enter about 45 minutes from my house called
Perelandra. It is based on Findhorn and they work with Devas and and Nature
Spirits and have the most beautiful garden! they are most famous for their
flower essences which I use but they have a program call MAP( Medical
assistance program) in which you work with your own devic/nature "team" and
I think this is the greatest!!! anyway here is the website :-) there are
some amazing books about her experiences!
www.perelandra-ltd.com
Love
Fran
.......................................................................
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:58:08 +0100
To: kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
From: Martin Thompson <martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [K-list] Re: Reincarnation and Parallel dimensions
References: <fe651a03.24d19121ATnospamaol.com>
<l03010d24b3c5fe452192ATnospam[216.198.63.12]>
In-Reply-To: <l03010d24b3c5fe452192ATnospam[216.198.63.12]>
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Reply-To: Martin Thompson <martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk>
08:06:02 Thu, 29 Jul 1999
Dharma at Dharma <fisher1ATnospamstic.net> writes:
>I've talked to three hypnotists who have done past-life regressions... I
>asked them if they think all these past-life accounts are really memories.
>They said no.
>One hypnotist who wrote a book on regression therapy says that's what she
>uses it for - therapy. As therapy it works, she says... it's another
>matter whether any particular "memory" is a true memory.
>
In a way, and as you said in the bit I just snipped (!) it may still
work as therapy. I've regressed myself and the "memories" were relevant
to my problems in my current life. Finding this out is part of the point
of regression anyway: it provides another perspective on today's
problems or opportunities. What I imagined I was thinking and feeling,
looking back on my previous life as I lay on my deathbed, was an
excellent mirror for my weaknesses of thought in my everyday life here
and now. Whether the memories were real or not didn't really matter
(although believing that they're real probably potentises the thoughts
somewhat for some people).
--
Martin Thompson martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk
Free Regular Income: http://www.virtualis.com/vr/mthomps4/vrp.html
"Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
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