To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/07/05 03:19
Subject: [K-list] Why pray ?
From: gopalan n.s.
On 1999/07/05 03:19, gopalan n.s. posted thus to the K-list:
5th July 1999
Hi Amanda
First thing first.
I had a returned message, which could not be delivered you & the K list,
which is sent to you again.
Your response Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:59:24 -0700
Dear Amanda,
>>Emotions erupt and sentiments get disturbed when one indulges in making a
>>critical analysis on topics like God & Religion, as these (emotions)
>>separates individual from individual and individual >and God.
>Critical analysis ?
>Can faith and religion be critized by analysis ?
>Is it not a very emotional issue and that's why it's
>so difficult to discuss in a dispassionate manner ?
Critical analysis only means a careful/closer look not critized by analysis.
Faith is never ever questioned. Truth/God are subject to emotions. The
Truth/God is beyond experience. As long as one doesn't develop a
dispassionate attitude he will find it difficult to reach/realise Truth/God.
Detachment is the key.
>>"With the belief of existence of God at 99%, you are moving ahead,
>>inviting
>>and taking behind you millions of people towards God . and for a moment
>>imagine that 1% chance become True and that there exists NO GOD What you
>>have done You have fooled yourself No problems But to fool so many
>>behind
>>you.. Isn't it a crime.. What right have you to mislead innocent
>>people ..!!!"
>>Priest:
>>Yet no answer
>Oh dear,
>I think he was practicising ahimsa here... :)
The point I intend to convey is that nobody can take you to God except
yourself. I think he thinks for others. I wasn't committing Himsa either
!!! LOL
>>The essence can not be experienced. Experiencing must cease, for
>>experience
>>only strengthen the known. Knowledge may give newer experiences of greater
>>sensation but a mind that is seeing experiences of any kind is IMMATURE.
>Would you say the "experiences" of ppl like Ramana Maharshi were "faulty"
>or
>untrue ?
I have read a book on Ramana Maharshi's philosphy "Zero Egoness" and heard
lot about him. He was great. All his experiences within the framework of his
mind too are IMMATURE. There are no exceptions. The greatness of Ramana
Maharshi is in what he was beyond this realm of experience-mind frame work.
What ever he saw/perceived beyond mind can't be described for others to
understand. May be you might have heard that during his later part of the
years he never spoke to any one followed" Mouna vratha". This is the
outward sign of getting away from the worldly knowledge/experience.
>Is experience in one religion different from that in another ?
Experience is an experience. Just the same always…misleading everyone..all
time to come…it is the Maya…the illusion…the magic…and so on and on…
>>Maturity, for instance, in meditation is the freeing of the mind from
>>knowledge for it shapes and controls all experience.
>Would the jnana yogins out there agree that
>the goal of meditation is not attaining knowledge
>of All There Is ?
It makes no difference as to who agrees or who disagrees. It is what you or
me see. You don't change because others disagree. Don't we say we agree to
disagree. We accept what works and reject all else.
However, the goal of meditation is not attaining knowledge. Meditation is
destroying all thoughts an in the end destroying the mind-- I mean cross
over the very mind you have been using… acquiring knowledge and so on.
Mathematics for instance is knowledge too. How much of it you use in your
life. Do you use all the formulae you learn. Purpose of all knowledge is
to help you think straight in understanding the truth. But after a point
you will realise all knowledge is useless, as truth is beyond knowledge.
>Joke aside, I do see what you mean about praying for money or success or
>your own >will. It is not a good thing and may very well lead to a lot of
>disappointment.
>But praying for strength, for the ability to do god's will, setting the ego
>aside and / or >just praising or thanking god, that is next to
>meditation, in my eyes. :)
Prayer is a prayer. There is nothing like praying for a good cause or not a
good cause or for a selfish end or otherwise. The idea I am conveying is
that Prayer is also an experience. The Truth/God is beyond experience. You
can't reach/realise Truth/God
by prayer. What you perceive through your five senses is not true.
Truth/God is revealed with the destruction of the mind.
>But don't do it if you don't like it.
I don't do it not because I don't like it. I am yet find a reason why I
need to do it.
With Love,
Gopal
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