To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/06/29 10:53
Subject: [K-list] forward pain/pleasure
From: Druout
On 1999/06/29 10:53, Druout posted thus to the K-list:
Catching up on mail. I think this interesting post from Jenell was meant for
the list, also.
Subj: Re: [K-list] pain/pleasure
Date: 6/28/99 7:29:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: anglfthrATnospamiamerica.net (Jenell)
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com
(J) In truth, pleasure and pain ARE the same thing, in that they are
simply different designations for how we percieve our body's response to
various tactile stimuli. Just as hot and cold are the same, both being
different designations we give to various conditons that exist in the
range of temperature. Both pleasure and pain, therefore, simply our
'measure' of our perception of tactile stimulation.
What you describe here as somehow attaining to a state of being an
'observer' of the pain, not a participant, is yes, very difficult to
explain. It was something I seem to have learned to do at a young age,
as a child, I remember telling people in pain to do it, couldn't
understand why they didn't understand what I was talking about. I
thought this was 'normal' that everybody could do it! This also
complicate describing it to others, becasue i've never known, that I can
remeber, what it was like to NOT be able to do it, to tell anyone HOW I
'learned' to do it. I eventually came to call it, for lack of a better
term, 'going away'. My dentist has told me that if i ever learn how to
teach people how to do it, he'd eep me booked full with pupils! At
first, it scared him, he would distrub me, bring me 'back', because as
he put it, I looked glassy eyed, spaced out, but once I explained it, he
was fascinated. I had had a horrible phobia of dentists.
I didn't encounter anything on what this might be, until several years
ago I came into contact with shamans. Shamans, meaning in truth actual
Shamans, Spirit Walkers, not ShamanISM, the study of it or religous
based on the principles of it. This 'going away' seems on of the
shaman's capabilties that isn't so much learned, as inborn, or 'learned'
through themselves having endured some terrible pain, especially over a
prolonged period. This was part of why Shaman 'training' included
'torture rituals', so as to learn to overcome pain, by this, and other
techniques. It involves a 'real' perspective shift, and here again, it's
difficult to descirbe what I mean here, without knowing if anyone here
understands things like 'assemblage points', because by 'real'
perspective shift, I'm talking about something different from that in
the usual way we mean it. Not as in point of view, psychologically or
emotionally or intellectually, but in something that might be described
as a 'shift' of the spiritual, 'awareness' perception body, (some call
it the awareness body, that which is really 'us', that continues to
exist and slips apart from the physical body at death) to a different
'plane' than the physical body. Remember that ALL realted to that pain
expereience, the tactile stimulus, AND the perception of it, is ENTIRELY
phsyical, of THIS world, reality, the physical body. Hmmm. How can I
explain what I mean here? I don't know how many know shaman terms, this
site seems oiented more toward Eastern practices and terminology, which
I'm really not 'educated' in at all. Sort of like in those anatomy books
or some such, where there is those transparent overlay pages, you turn
back the one showing a whole body, and you see a skinned body, then onto
muscles, bones, etc, but at each 'level', part of the picture below
makes up the picture you are looking at? Now, think of that, and then
just slide the top one just a bit 'off alignment' with the one
underneath. the clear, sharp image 'blurs'. We sometimes expereience the
'feel' of this when we feel what we might feel as if we are 'not all
here', moving with part of ourselves 'out of sync', etc. As if where for
a whole, complete 'us, it takes the two superimposed in exact alignment,
but we've slipped one off to one side a bit. A In shaman terms, we've
slightly altered our assemblage point, briefly, and with one part, we
retain the physical perception of the tactile stimulie, the pain, and
with the other, we retain our awareness, perception, of that. When we
alter our assemblage point,the awareness body, spirutal body, whatever
one wants to call it, moves FIRST, then the physical body has to 'catch
up', to rejoin. that 'lag' between provide for this phenomenon we are
discussing here. Close as I can get to explaining, and I'm not sure I've
done it clearly.
Your seeing the three letters 'scrambled', may also indicate something
along this line. For while in the above, I used only two 'perceptual
planes' to the body, there are actually three. Some call these physical,
or earthlyly, of this realm, then astral, then divine, and some of
course call it body, mind, and spirit, or body, spirit, and soul, but
I'm not sure how the philosophies you are more familiar with here define
them.
jenell
DruoutATnospamaol.com wrote:
>
> Dear List,
>
> Last night was the second time since my K started that I've experienced
> messages having to do with pain/pleasure. I don't know if my experience
will
> be helpful or just annoying to those in pain, but I repeat it just in case
> it's message is useful to someone out there.
>
> 1:20 wiped out with the pleasure of it.
> 2:30 ? intense
> 2:38 pain throughout muscles. ask why. receive the image of the letters
xyz
> scrambled and the thought that reality is subject to change and
pleasure/pain
> are one. I take an aspirin nontheless.
> 3:15 Overwhelming PAIN
> 3:21 receive thought that all kinds of pain/pleasure are abstraction (?)
> Pass through a different reality field. (?)
> Pleasure again.
>
> Wake feeling fine.
>
> Very strange. Perhaps I'm simply reflecting pain around me--but it
certainly
> hurt. The secret seemed to be in switching "realities" in some way and in
> looking at pain in some way without experiencing it as such. Difficult to
> put into words.
>
> Love, Hillary
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