To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/06/27 12:44
Subject: [K-list] K and gender / Dharma
From: A. Erhart
On 1999/06/27 12:44, A. Erhart posted thus to the K-list:
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:15:36 Dharma wrote:
>I don't recall the characteristics he outlined for anima
>possession, a man possessed by the repressed female side... maybe a
>nagging, bitchy husband? :)
:D
>Those who are not shocked to find opposite-gender
>characteristics may just find it interesting or even >fascinating.
Pssst, Dharma... I must admit, I find it all both
fascinating and lovely. I really enjoy it. :)
Once, I came home from work and switched on the tv.
There was this thin female show host whom I have seen
lots of times and never thought about, but then I could
just feel my male side move and feel really attracted
to this woman on tv. I sat there panting for the
remainder of the program, couldn't follow what she said
at all, just looked at her feeling extremely in love
and when the show was over I was completely exhausted
after the blast of sexual energy.
The next time the same program was on I was
curious if the same thing would happen, but nothing
did. The program host seemed like a regular woman and
I never thought about it. :D Phew !
>I was still studying with Lynea and talking to my body/subconscious. And
>one day it let me know that it identified as male and wanted to be called
>by a name! I suggested a name, but no - he told me his name was Dru. :)
>And then Dru was making love to me, every day... my male side was loving
>my fem side... I was having sex with myself! In meditation I still was
>usually in the deep fem... and it seemed that Dru was lying just
>underneath me, often with his arms around me.
:D I really like this, Dharma, and appreciate you're
open enough to talk about it here. Most Non K ppl would feel very confused and threatened by notions
like that.
My experiences are exactly the same. I know the name of
the subconscious male and he is a previous incarnation.
In the start of active K he would make love to me,
but these days, it is Shakti making love to him/us,
as a woman to a man, with a female, i.e. me inside
him. It is complicated and hmm.... very interesting. :D
>said the reason I had had several careers cut short and had never really
>achieved worldly success was because Dru was afraid that if I became a big
>success, I wouldn't need him any more! I said, "But that's not possible!
>I'll always need him!" She said, "But he didn't know that! That's the way
>he felt... he was afraid you'd leave him." She said I was only the second
>person she'd ever found this in... the first was herself. :) So I kept on
>telling Dru that I love him and I will always need him... we'll always be
>together. :)
:D Ohh, that is very sweet !
I think there was one of the Indian gurus who said
that he didn't need a woman anymore since now he had
an inner woman.
I think we both know what he meant by that. :)
>Angelique says the inner opposite-gender side is the high self, which is
>the guide or spiritual guru. I don't know whether that's always so.
I don't know either, but that is my experience too.
It is very interesting and funny that you bring this
up because I have always interpreted things to be this
way with you ever since you said K was a very
sexual experience for you. I just have never brought
it up.
The first time K became overtly active, I saw myself
inside the opposite gender self, the past life
incarnation. As it was perceived as "myself", it
did not feel very scary, but the activation of K
brought with it a sudden telepathic ability and a
fear of being possessed, so the confusion and terror
was great for the first week.
I've never believed in spirit guides before, but
during that week when I really was in need of guidance.
This person, the higher opposite gender self, showed
himself to me in dreams and spontaneous meditation,
which used to happen all the time then.
He looked at me with such love I could hardly believe
it happened. I understood he was the previous incarnation, as well as the higher self and subconscious personality.
I also recognized that he had been visiting while I
was a child, sort of checking up on me and then quietly
left.
He was truly a guide when things were very confusing
and I was feeling like 10 persons in one. I do not
perceive him as so much as a guide now since there has
been a great degree of integration, but I still
merge with him in meditation.
>Well, we know that the etheric body has all the equipment of both sexes...
:)))
>When I'm making long-distance
>love with someone, sometimes we seem to be in the same space, joined in my
>body in ecstasy... and sometimes I feel the other's body as if it is
>outside mine, making love. And when the other person is also androgynous,
>that can be kind of funny when we switch. When I'm male and switch to fem,
>I seem to shrink as the other gets bigger... and our faces pass as his
>goes up past mine, and mine goes down. :)))))
:D Absolutely beautiful, Dharma.
>For myself, I seem always to be heterosexual... when I'm male, I'm
>interested only in females. But your experience doesn't seem surprising...
>probably perfectly natural for you.
Yes, it is, one part of the male side is heterosexual
and one part is homosexual and it all feels very
right and ok.
In many ways, the
gay male part is/was much more feminine in comportment
than the female external side, which can be pretty
"male" at times.
>Yes! :)) Well, to me it doesn't seem gay... it's my male side that is
>appreciating the females. But I don't think I'm much worried about the
>word "gay" any more, either. I've never actually done anything about it in
>the physical body... when I'm male, this little fem body feels kind of
>silly. Not a proper size for a man... and not, um, properly equipped. :)
LOLOLOL !!!
Me too, the biggest problem is feeling the small
body and lack of muscle strength. Still, I appreciate
the body as it is. Can't complain. :)
I've never acted on the gay emotions either, I don't
feel the need to. They are there to be whole and
they can be enjoyed in thought only. :)
No need to act out unless something out of the ordinary
should happen.
>> Androgynes have always been this tiny group of people in proportion to
>>the total human population, who somehow are secure and adventuresome
>>enough to explore life more freely and flowingly than the overwhelming
>>majority. They explore both sides of life with much less need to defend
>>their behavior, negate or shut down spontaneous experiences.
>>Androgynes are the ones who are not satisfied to go through life always
>>having to choose between polar-opposite experiences. They refuse to be
>>satisfied with only 'half a loaf,' and therefore do not feel obliged to
>>couple with someone else who chose the other half of the loaf in order to
>>feel whole. -snip-
Oh, very nice. :))) Thanks for this snippet, Dharma.
>Obviously, Larkin idealizes the androgyne and thinks that this state is the
>goal of evolution, the state of the perfected human being. I'd like to
>dissociate myself from this... I'm not saying that my way of being is
>better than anyone else's way. :)
:) No, I suppose if you can do it, then do it and
enjoy being both male and female at the same time
and in as many variations as you want,
if you feel
threatened by it, then don't do it. :)
>He distinguishes three types of androgyne: the androgyne, the advanced
>androgyne, and the Divine Androgyne. I don't think much of his
>classification. First, he had experience only with men, with androgynes in
>male bodies. And he says frankly that that's all he can write about, knows
>almost nothing of androgynes in female bodies.
No, this classification is just another perspective.
Refreshing but not necessarily true.
>Second, his criteria for the three types or stages are heavily based on
>physical practices... whether the person has done this thing or that thing
>(I won't be more specific here, because I don't want to shock or offend).
LOL !!! As Monty Python would say: Say no more !
Not the best of criteria, I'd with that.
In my eyes, the mentality is
what counts, how you see yourself, what you accept
within yourself, not necessarily what you have done
or not.
>And third, it seems to encourage the tendency to megalomania that is always
>a pitfall for people with active K. He considered himself a Divine
>Androgyne, of course, and therefore able to judge everyone else's stage and
>development. :)
LOL ! Of course....
The much feared K power trip. ;) Arrghh.
>I prefer his initial preception about "Universe": that we are all the
>Divine Androgyne, and it's only a matter of whether >we know it or not.
(nod, nod) :)))
>Androgyne men have told me that they greatly enjoy being fem and
>receptive... that they find in the surrender a greater freedom and a
>heightened perception of inner energy movement, of the inner planes.
This is my experience too.
>Some androgynes seem to stay mostly in the center... they consider it a
>matter of progress and think that it shows less progress, less development,
>to be still able to be fully male or female. Personally, I enjoy the
>extremes, the poles of sexuality. I think these are probably differences
>of temperament and personal preference. :)
Yeah, I must admit I don't bother with trying to
classicy the experiences of other ppl or myself into
advanced or less advanced. I try to avoid elitism
or classification as much as possible. In my eyes,
god cannot be classified and so should not we.
The only thing I don't like is when ppl think that
being androgynous
is equal to being sexless. Wot ???
>I do know that what I experience now in sex is infinitely better than what
>I used to experience before I was K-active. If I had to choose one or the
>other - long-distance sex as I know it, or physical in-person sex without
>the inner awareness of active K. - there's no doubt what the answer would
>be! But probably the ideal is to have all of this with a partner who is
>also present in the physical.
Still, doing it long distance should equal a present
partner, as has been said: time and space are both
illusions. :)
>I think if I came together with another person in a very physical way,
>holding and moving, I would probably not have the inner awareness.
>Probably the way to do it... at least at first... is to lie separately
>but near each other and take time to join completely, just as in
>long-distance sex... and then slowly and gently add the physical. I think
>that way we could have it all. :)
Good suggestion for a nice Tantra exercise. Very beautiful. :)
Too bad there is only Shakti at the
present. :)
Well, again, thanks for the very brave and open hearted
sharing. My ego is still intact enough to enjoy there
being other ppl in strong interaction
with their inner male/female out there. :)
Best regards,
Amanda.
Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.