To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/06/17 12:59
Subject: [K-list] Why pray ?
From: Amanda Erhart
On 1999/06/17 12:59, Amanda Erhart posted thus to the K-list:
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 05:14:15 gopalan n.s. wrote:
>I have been on the K list for over a month now. I am now going to venture
>in to a daring actShould I !!!!
Yeeees ! :)
>Emotions erupt and sentiments get disturbed when one indulges in making a
>critical analysis on topics like God & Religion, as these (emotions)
>separates individual from individual and individual >and God.
Critical analysis ?
Can faith and religion be critized by analysis ?
Is it not a very emotional issue and that's why it's
so difficult to discuss in a dispassionate manner ?
>Ordinarily people fall under two groups-Group A, follow prescribed rules of
>religion/scriptures in understanding God, While the other group B, with an
>open mind make their own rules, which change with changes in levels of
>awareness, as they move towards >understanding/realising God.
Yes, that is one way of seeing it.
It doesn't matter what religion or tradition you look at,
you can find A and B ppl in all kinds of traditions,
including hinduist / yogic traditions.
That is another way of looking at it.
>So called realised
>souls too fear to break this misconceived myth-a limitation of the mind.
>Its my view, being on the k list, I should be able to freely exchange few of
>my thoughts on God & religion.
You can do that everywhere. Just put the ego aside
while doing so.
"Plonk" <--- my ego is now set aside. ;)
>Quote:
>"Father, Please tell me if there is God !!!Do you believe in one !!!!.
>
>Priest:
>
>No Answer.
>
>"Father, please confirm that there is God..and You are certain on that.if
>you do, I will offer myself & surrender to you and tread the path behind you
>"
>
>Priest:
>
>No Answer..
>
>"Father, then should I assume that you believe in existence of God. And
>there is one as such !!! "
>
>"Since you have no answers, I presume, giving benefit of doubt that you
>belief in God is at 99%"
:D
>"With the belief of existence of God at 99%, you are moving ahead, inviting
>and taking behind you millions of people towards God. and for a moment
>imagine that 1% chance become True and that there exists NO GODWhat you
>have doneYou have fooled yourself No problems But to fool so many behind
>you.. Isn't it a crime.. What right have you to mislead innocent
>people..!!!"
>
>Priest:
>
>Yet no answer
Oh dear,
I think he was practicising ahimsa here... :)
>The God at a Church or a temple or a place any worship, does it mean,
>sanctions certain benefits on a condition that the devotee performs certain
>actions in return.
>
>It is my personal view, many may disagree, that all the religious practices
>are nothing but limitations on the mind. Truth/God, if there is one, in
>which I believe, is beyond the reach of the mind.
Yes, it may seem so.
I agree with you that religious efficacy has nothing
to do with numbers. It is all a question of faith,
not quantity, but quality.
>The essence can not be experienced. Experiencing must cease, for experience
>only strengthen the known. Knowledge may give newer experiences of greater
>sensation but a mind that is seeing experiences of any kind is IMMATURE.
Would you say the "experiences" of ppl like Ramana Maharshi were "faulty" or untrue ?
Is experience in one religion different from that in
another ?
>Maturity, for instance, in meditation is the freeing of the mind from
>knowledge for it shapes and controls all experience.
Would the jnana yogins out there agree that
the goal of meditation is not attaining knowledge
of All There Is ?
>One must appreciate that Meditation is never a >Prayer.
It depends on how it is done.
I suspect you can achieve a meditation like state of
mind in "prayer".
>Prayer,
>supplication, is born of self-pity. We pray when there is sorrow; when
>there is happiness, joy, there is no supplication.
:) Maybe not for you.
I personally
do supplication and it is done in joy, bliss rather.
When K creeps up on me, down I go, to prayer or
meditation or praise
or whatever. It doesn't matter, the feeling
of reverence and love is all that does.
Yes, sometimes I'm plagued with self pity, but then I
let the emotion play itself out in the light of K
and that usually causes it to recede.
Prayer is not always about asking for something, it
may be to say thanks as well.
But maybe then it is not prayer ?
>That which separate or
>thinks itself separate, ever seeking identification with something that is
>not separate, brings only more division and pain.
Yes, that is true.
But remember, even strict jnana yogins like Shankara used deity images and praised these in songs and
writings.
As long as one is aware that the division is
born of the ego and something to strive to overcome,
I do not see too many problems with using a divine
image to pay reverence too.
(Rrrrrr... my K stirs even just thinking about
paying reverence... :) )
>This cry may find an
>answer, but the answer is the echo of self-pity, in its separation. The
>repetition of words, of prayer, is self-hypnotic, self enclosing and
>destructive.
Hmmm.... :)))
Oh Lord, I'm destructive, self enclosing and self
pitying, I pray to you that you open me up and do
something about it ! Please, please, please, please,
please....
Joke aside, I do see what you mean about praying for
money or success or your own will. It is not a good
thing and may very well lead to a lot of disappointment.
But praying for strength, for the ability to do god's
will, setting the ego aside and / or just praising
or thanking god, that is next to meditation, in my
eyes. :)
But don't do it if you don't like it.
Best regards,
Amanda.
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