To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/06/14 18:24
Subject: Re: [K-list] Subconscious/Unconscious
From: Antoine
On 1999/06/14 18:24, Antoine posted thus to the K-list:
Forwarded from the edited list. Please respond to
martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:06:24 +0100
From: Martin Thompson <martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk>
>Is our body something different than our own mind?
>
<< Yes and no, probably! At the most materialistic, non-mystical
minimum, the mind can be seen as a function of the body, rather than a
material thing in itself. >>
Hello Martin,
I enjoy your clarity of mind. In the Newtonian materialistic world, i
would agree with you on the definition of the 'noumen' of matter and
mind you propose. But for physicist those 'noumen' have been changing
this century, even at the most non-mystical level. I can't wait to see
it reflected in the psychological approach. Or is it the spychological
approach tyhat has been reflecting on the materialistic one? Scratching
my head...
"The basic contemporary physical theory, quantum theory, if taken
seriously, says just the opposite: it says that our experiential
knowings are the basic dynamical units, and that what had in earlier
times been understood as material particles that could exist apart from
knowings, must be replaced by a knowledge-bearing structure. This
structure evolves the knowledge created by earlier knowings into the
makings of later knowings. So instead of tiny atoms controlling each
other, and thereby all knowings, it is rather the knowings that are the
basic irreducible units: they enter as entire units into a dynamic
structure that carries forward the facts fixed by past knowings to
produce the possibilities for future knowings."
If it may be of some interest to you, the rest of the this text is
quoted at:
http://pages.infinit.net/carrea/physics/stapp.htm
<< Unconsciousness is, according to this definition, when the
mind-function is not operating. This definition applies equally to
things that are normally regarded as not having consciousness, such as
rocks, and empty space. >>
Some physicist would say today that the mind function is always
operating, even in rocks. Or this question comes to arise in their
research on the origin of matter: Those matter exist without
consciousness? Pushing to go in your direction, one could ask
him/herself if such a thing that is not conscious does exist? Or do the
prefix like not-something, un-something, etc.. do they point to
something that actually exist?
>By the way we answer those questions the meaning of the word unconscious for one varies greatly.
<< Maybe so. A common definition is certainly necessary if people are
not going to be talking past one another. I propose the one above. >>
I like it when my definitions change according to who i speak to :). I
guess it comes out that one is always listening to himself or herself in
the end...
Antoine
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