To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/06/08 08:22
Subject: Re: [K-list] Black Magic
From: Robert Weil
On 1999/06/08 08:22, Robert Weil posted thus to the K-list:
>Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 16:18:47 +0100
>To: owner-kundaliniATnospamList-Server.net
>From: Robert Weil <Robert_WeilATnospamscientia.com>
>Subject: Re: [K-list] Black Magic
>In-Reply-To: <375D27AE.57388004ATnospamwtp.net>
>
>Reply further down......... :)
>
>
>
>At 08:24 08/06/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>Forwarded from the edited list. Please send responses to
>>martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk
>>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:13:08 +0100
>>To: kundalini-l-eATnospamonelist.com
>>From: Martin Thompson <martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk>
>>Subject: Re: [kundalini-l-e] Digest Number 55
>>
>>08:34:48 Mon, 7 Jun 1999
>> at kundalini-l-eATnospamonelist.com writes:
>>>>>>I mean, controling prana in that way has it's name - black magic. :)
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>It was my understanding that attempting to control other people is
>>what
>>>
>>>>amounts to black magic, and controlling one's self, white.
>>>
>>>It is my understanding that power is neither black nor white, but it is
>>
>>>the use of power for good or for evil purposes that makes the action
>>>white or black. We can define and clarify "good and evil" in various
>>>ways... positive and negative... other-serving and self-serving...
>>>helpful or harmful. But the point is that it is the purpose that makes
>>
>>>the action black or white.
>>>
>>I think that this is how nearly everybody judges actions: not even by
>>the results, but by the intentions.
>
>>
>>Perhaps I could amplify my statement a bit to take this into account:
>>black magic would be attempting to control others for personal gain.
>
>ATnospamATnospamATnospamATnospamATnospam
>
>Hi. In my experience, and using Crowley's definition of Magick as
affecting change through force of will, any magic done will affect others,
as it affects things. It is a fundamental means to order, to control, to
structure the cosmos in some intentional way. Therefore I can carry out a
magical act that intends me to receive a new car, but in so doing I may be
affecting someone else, perhaps adversely.
>
>Now I may "*need*" a car! I may need it to ferry a disabled friend around
for her own (good) purposes. All the issues I faced many years ago over the
ethics of Magic are here: is my friend need more important than another's
need for the car? Is what she will do more important than another person
who I may never meet? Who am I to use my will to affect change for my own
gain, even if I benefit another person (whom I happen to know)?
>
>Ultimately, any form of intentional act acts upon the cosmos so as to
effect an outcome. This outcome is the point. We all do it to some extent.
Our intentions are never fully clear: if they were, what need would we have
to impose a particular change on the cosmos? With totally clear intent,
there is no "Me" to do the imposing. I am simply an indissolubal(?) part of
the flow, at peace, with no *need* to intend change. Just bliss.
>
>That is why, to me, Magic, black or white, is the same, and the shade of
it is our take on what we think of whatever the person doing it is doing.
The Catholic Church practices magic, and yet they would regard anything
that didn't conform to their system of ceremony as Satanic. This would
include Paganism. And Astrology :))
>
>Since any system cannot incude things outside of itself, any action we
take within a limited field of knowledge (and that includes knowing the
outcome!) is a gamble, and as such we risk when we intend an outcome. We
are learning all the time: perhaps Magic is the process of learning the
power and uselessness of will. :)
>
>And I try not to use it... ;))
>
>With respect
>Rob
>ATnospamATnospamATnospamATnospam
>
>>>I don't think we can see all attempts to control other people as always
>>
>>>negative/bad/"black"... surgeons do it... psychiatrists do it...
>>>teachers... policemen... even traffic cops. :) As they are working
>>>for the good of others, their actions are "white."
>>>
>>There is a problem here. Suppose they have been duped? Their intentions
>>may be good, but the leaders of our societies, i.e., the same type of
>>people who in the past have sanctioned the destruction of American and
>>African civilizations, and who appear to think nothing of starting wars
>>every couple of years or signing death warrants for political advantage,
>>seem to have other intentions. In a sense, our leaders could *all* be
>>black magicians...
>>
>>>And I don't think the result or outcome of the action makes it black or
>>
>>>white. When the surgeon tries to help another, even save life, by his
>>>surgery, but loses his patient on the operating table, that doesn't
>>make
>>>his action "black."
>>>
>>I agree, assuming someone other than the surgeon isn't secretly in
>>control!
>>
>>>Of course, sometimes the situation is complex. What if the doctor or
>>>the teacher or the magician makes a faulty diagnosis... misjudges the
>>>one he wants to help... and takes the wrong kind of action, although
>>>for the best of purposes... and the result is harmful to the
>>>patient/student? These things are complex... I couldn't see such an
>>>action as "black"... I see a white magician who makes an error in
>>>judgement.
>>There are some who say that if it was done with good intentions, in the
>>long-term it will work out all right. Others say that the road to hell
>>is paved with good intentions.
>>--
>>Martin Thompson martinATnospamtucana.demon.co.uk
>>London, UK
>> Home Page: http://www.tucana.demon.co.uk
>> Free Regular Income: http://www.virtualis.com/vr/mthomps4/vrp.html
>>
>>"Everything I do and say with anyone makes a difference." Gita Bellin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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