To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/05/15 05:50
Subject: [K-list] Sophists and Socrates
From: Amanda Erhart
On 1999/05/15 05:50, Amanda Erhart posted thus to the K-list:
On Sat, 15 May 1999 00:01:23 Domagoj Klepac wrote:
>> I suppose someone already did a long and learned
>> debate about that in one of the debating socities
>> or rhetoric clubs in ancient Greece... ;)
>
>They did. That was the main point of dispute between Socrates and
>sophists. Sophists were into logic games, saying that truth it not
>important, that the important thing is to know how to turn things to
>work for you - win any debate, etc.
:) Yes, they were into rhetoric.
>Socrates was against them, and he
>teached that there is only one truth, and that it's >achiavable.
>
>In today's philosophy it's unquestionable that >Socrates won that dispute. :)
Know any good philosophers from this century, btw ?
Or has it all been said before ?
>(Ehm, that's not the topic of the list, but I hope you >don't mind a small anegdote:)
If it's about philosophy, not at all.
Hope nobody else does.
>In old Greece, sophists were teaching art of debate for money. So, one
>day student of famous sophist tried to convince him that he didn't
>really owe him any money:
>- I accepted to pay to for learning me how to win any debate. So, if I
>can convince you that I don't owe you any money and win that debate, I
>shouldn't pay you any money because we would then agree that I don't owe
>you any money. However, if I don't win the debate, then I still wouldn't
>owe you any money, since you didn't teach me how to win the debate, and
>therefore I don't have to pay you for something you >didn't do.
:)
>But sophist tried to reassure him in following way:
>- Oh, but you're totally wrong. If you do win this debate, and if we
>agree that you don't owe me any money, you should still pay me the money
>since it's obvious that I taught you well. However, if you don't
>persuade me, you'd still have to pay me the money since I've won the
>debate, and we agreed that you had to pay me the >money.
:) Have you seen the Monty Python skit performed
at Hollywood Bowl with the man who comes to the office
for an appointment "with an argument". They
start arguing like that.
>Their quarrel lasted, and resulted with a fight. When they were brought
>to court, judge listened to them and then got mad and billed them both.
>:)
:D
Thanks for the story, Dom. I have forgotten too much
from my phil classes.
Best regards,
Amanda.
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