To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/03/10 14:44
Subject: Fwd: RE: Fwd: Re: [K-list] Asking to be Abused?
From: Catherine Berger
On 1999/03/10 14:44, Catherine Berger posted thus to the K-list:
note: forwarded msg attached.
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:43:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Catherine Berger <linder_hoffATnospamyahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: [K-list] Asking to be Abused?
To: Llewellyn <ljonesATnospamzlink.net>
Content-Length: 3358
Dear Llewellyn,
I don't really care what you believe or whether you were bored. I
spoke from my experience prior to this incarnation. If that sounds
like a traditional Christian view to you, then you are very
prejudiced. I also think your comments were meant to insult, however
I am not insulted. I consider the source.
Cathy
---Llewellyn <ljonesATnospamzlink.net> wrote:
>
> Cathy wrote:
> snip
> > What I had to say was simply an observation of my time in the bardo.
> > To explain my reasoning: a sadist (who believes he/she is
performing a
> > service to those who believe suffering is a spiritual path) is a
> > higher calling than the unenlightened personality "an abuser" that
may
> > result, who as an unenlightened "abuser, rapist, murderer, etc." may
> > not understand his/her own motives. However, a higher understanding
> > does not translate into the highest understanding. Eventually,
> > suffering is recognized as unnecessary. A more enlightened
> > understanding is that both sadist and masochist need God's healing
> > forgiveness in order to free themselves from the many bonds they
have
> > created to suffering. This is not a comment on whether the sadist
or
> > the masochist are good/bad, right/wrong, or who has the most karma.
> > The object is to rise above the duality, and abandon the entire
process.
> >
> > If you do not wish to be forgiven, you will not be. No worries.
:-)
> >
> > Cathy
>
> Gloria(responded):
> You put this very well Cathy. Thanks for sharing. You can see this
is a
> hot topic.
>
**********
> *****
> I can't help but add my two cents ---
>
> Ah, more entertainment - but actually in soap-operas, I prefer the
> "Eastenders".
>
> Thanks, you two for reminding me how biased and arrogant
"Christians",
> especially those in a proselytizing mode, can be (I had almost
forgotten
> that lesson). I fail to see what there is be forgiven for, nor do I
buy
> into the idea of forgiveness as a concept. Also what is this about
> suffering in reference to this: I would think that those who do the
S&M
> scene, see it as a game or acting in a drama -- is the "masochist"
suffering
> in this game, no way, is the "sadist" suffering, perhaps more than the
> "masochist". These are only labels in a consensual act, but they
can be
> honest labels and as such it can be a fun game. And (IMO) by
"playing" with
> this energy one can understand the mechanisms and deal with it via
the only
> way anybody really can, internalizing the understanding. You can
state
> whatever you want, as your opinion, or your point of view - but,
when you
> take on that holier than thou attitude - then I object. When you have
> washed away more of your culture's programming and can discuss this
issue in
> more general terms and with a greater depth then I might listen, for
now I
> will change the channel, I do not need a sermon from a religious
> perspective. I see far more spirit in Mystress Angelique than in your
> hollow words. Actually, you two are quite boring in that you are
wearing
> ready-made masks and it is a countenance that I have seen over and
over.
>
>
> Llewellyn.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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