To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/03/10 14:39
Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: [K-list] Asking to be Abused?
From: Llewellyn

Cathy wrote:
snip
> What I had to say was simply an observation of my time in the bardo.
> To explain my reasoning: a sadist (who believes he/she is performing a
> service to those who believe suffering is a spiritual path) is a
> higher calling than the unenlightened personality "an abuser" that may
> result, who as an unenlightened "abuser, rapist, murderer, etc." may
> not understand his/her own motives. However, a higher understanding
> does not translate into the highest understanding. Eventually,
> suffering is recognized as unnecessary. A more enlightened
> understanding is that both sadist and masochist need God's healing
> forgiveness in order to free themselves from the many bonds they have
> created to suffering. This is not a comment on whether the sadist or
> the masochist are good/bad, right/wrong, or who has the most karma.
> The object is to rise above the duality, and abandon the entire process.
>
> If you do not wish to be forgiven, you will not be. No worries. :-)
>
> Cathy

Gloria(responded):
 You put this very well Cathy. Thanks for sharing. You can see this is a
hot topic.
**********
*****
I can't help but add my two cents ---

 Ah, more entertainment - but actually in soap-operas, I prefer the
"Eastenders".

 Thanks, you two for reminding me how biased and arrogant "Christians",
especially those in a proselytizing mode, can be (I had almost forgotten
that lesson). I fail to see what there is be forgiven for, nor do I buy
into the idea of forgiveness as a concept. Also what is this about
suffering in reference to this: I would think that those who do the S&M
scene, see it as a game or acting in a drama -- is the "masochist" suffering
in this game, no way, is the "sadist" suffering, perhaps more than the
"masochist". These are only labels in a consensual act, but they can be
honest labels and as such it can be a fun game. And (IMO) by "playing" with
this energy one can understand the mechanisms and deal with it via the only
way anybody really can, internalizing the understanding. You can state
whatever you want, as your opinion, or your point of view - but, when you
take on that holier than thou attitude - then I object. When you have
washed away more of your culture's programming and can discuss this issue in
more general terms and with a greater depth then I might listen, for now I
will change the channel, I do not need a sermon from a religious
perspective. I see far more spirit in Mystress Angelique than in your
hollow words. Actually, you two are quite boring in that you are wearing
ready-made masks and it is a countenance that I have seen over and over.

Llewellyn.

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