To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/02/15 12:29
Subject: RE: [K-list] understandings
From: Llewellyn
On 1999/02/15 12:29, Llewellyn posted thus to the K-list:
Dear littlebird Leslie,
I always feel connected to bird energies, little or big- it is the shaman
part of me, I guess. Glad you found part of my comments interesting - and
you bring up many good points that help clarify this - allow me to comment
on your observations as I try to digest and absorb what you are telling me
and please excuse my questioning nature - perhaps eventually understanding
will sink into my thick skull.
So at the risk of being over-indulgent I will post my response to you on the
list.
> >
> I find this very interesting... I can see varying perspectives on this.
> For one, a state of only "bliss": the vedic literatures describe the
> "oneness" stage of realization (which I think is being alluded to here)
> as possessing Truth and Knowledge, not Ananda or bliss which is present
> at the higher stage of realization of the personality of godhead, where
> there are all sorts of loving relationships to be engaged in with God, or
> Krishna.
Thank you for helping clarify this and bringing in vedic terminology - my
thinking somewhat applies to both the "oneness" stage and the Ananda if I
got that right. But I perhaps question the use of higher stage of
realization - were we all not there and came back for more "experience" - I
personally dislike the word "God" since it has too many bad associations for
me - but I am learning to suppress my reaction to this word and accept it as
a synonym for a generalized concept of spiritual 'something' and not the
Judeo-Christian concept that I was surrounded by growing up.
> Now, personally, this is really my husbands thing. I feel a
> connection but not really with the intellectual stuff as much.
uh - ok no comment, except there is a place for analysis, synthesis and
examining and even studying the past ways - but I think I'm with you that
one can explore these ideas without perhaps this framework although I
understand that understanding the wisdom and methods and thoughts of the
past is important but perhaps not essential - and I was drawn to Indian
philosophy and the Rg Veda and the Bhagavad Gita in college - but was not
drawn to any type of yoga study.
So,
> another perspective, one more natural to me, would be to say that once
> you leave earthly level sort of consciousness behind I don't think it's
> like, 'OK, that's it, just bliss from now on'. There really is much more
> to it than that. I don't really think that of all the people so bent on
> achieving this "ultimate oneness" that that is really what is going to
> happen to them. There is so much to do and be done. Also, at a higher
> level of consciousness I wonder if that is what they truly want. Perhaps
> it is really just a desire to not feel separated. To know and be
> conscious of the answers to their questions and their true potential.
My experience with the Kundalini was via a spontaneous awakening and not
one that I really wanted per se - our higher self tends to lead us in
directions that may not be what the ego anticipated or even dreamed of.
However, once on a spiritual path it seems we have little choice - if we
stray away for too long something comes up to push us back -
A
> desire of escape from this level of consciousness is perhaps the first
> step toward mastery- like, step 1, realizing you have a problem. Once we
> establish that we do want to advance ourselves then we may start to see
> that we have to work with what we've got in the here and now.
Mastery of what - advance to what - what is the goal or non-goal - to reach
the Ananda state? - If so then why -?
> Personally, I don't feel like much of a native to earth. It seems that
> my energy is more attuned to another type of more subtle body. So, for
> me there are mixed feelings about being here on earth. I know that I
> wanted and still want to be here and that I have an important job to do
> and much to learn. On another level, I am sure I won't mind leaving
> either.
May I ask what job you have to do while here? About leaving an Earth
existence - yes I believe that there are many different realities to
explore - certainly many not on an Earth plane - still question issue of
advancing to this "higher phase" -
>
> I do feel that there is more to it than just having as many different
> types of experience as possible. It seems sort of chaotic to me. There
> is no doubt that there is order in the universe. There is a purpose, I
> believe. I don't know just what the big goal is, and that doesn't seem
> so important, the beauty is in the process, not only the experience, but
> the unfolding. There is a momentum moving us. If it were just for
> experience there would seem to be little impetus to leave a form or
> advance one's consciousness. Why not just have the experience of doing
> the same thing forever and getting really bored. No, we are moving
> toward something.
Ah - yes - I agree, I think to most of this - I too sense we are moving
towards something - and like idea of momentum moving us - although I
believe one could spend many lifetimes experiencing all sorts of realities
in many timeframes and locations - but it would not be enough - although
interesting for a time - eventually one experience would be like another
one - "boring" - yes moving toward something - (I think - or that rings
true to me) - For me it is important to think about what the big goal is -
otherwise how do we judge whether we are on the right path - or even if a
path exists to the "big goal" - somehow sitting back and watching it unfold
is ok but is this what your yogic path context states - I thought that one
progressed towards merging into Ananda - is that not the big goal for that
path? I do not really understand this - I do know how Christians are they
seem to have no questions about the goal - or how it will end.
This is one of the differences I have felt being
> manifested on the path of yoga versus the wiccan path. Now, I know there
> is surly a lot more to it and that it can work oppositely depending on
> the participants, but for Me, to take the wiccan path would be to stop
> and smell the flowers and take a stroll over here and over there. This
> sort of la la la floating around is definitely in my nature and something
> I could have easily done. However, I was deterred from that path and
> introduced to the yogic path. I feel so much focus and direction. That
> is one of the gifts I receive from my husband, focus. A lot can be
> accomplished with a focus. It is allowed me to develop spiritually in a
> context.
uh - ok - but I would maintain that a wiccan path is just as valid as a
yogic path - focus is good, so is a blur not to say that wiccans are in a
blur or that those following wicca are not focused - we all exist in some
context - but are you saying there is nothing of value in the wiccan path
that is not contained in the yogic path? - or what about Zen or what about
being a Shaman - is there not a part of every path that is unique and
valuable?
>
> I practice kundalini yoga in particular. I also teach it. I am new on
> this list and I have noticed what seems to be a trend people exploring
> the kundalini power. It seems that a lot of people sit down and
> meditate, often for long periods of time. Perhaps they read a few books
> on the subject and learned specific techniques for stirring and waking up
> kundalini shakti.
I will not hold that against you - I can not speak for this list (I am
relatively new to it as well) - but the list has a wide mixture of
participants following every type of spiritual path imaginable (to me that
is its great joy)-
The one thing in common is kundalini or the K whether arrived at via a
standard method or just thrown into it -
big snip
> advertisement, but I think this is really great.
ok I will ignore the advertisement - maybe great for you - I trust that
everybody's higher self will lead them to what is best for them - to me one
should not try to control or channel this energy - I also tend to not like
any organization
another snip
I know
> Kundalini Yoga people have been here and may be here now, but I just
> wanted to put in my say.
I enjoy the open discussion about "understandings" and am more tolerant of
advertisements for Yogi Bhajan's version of kundalini yoga than I am of
advertisements for anything with "God" in it - but this list is very
varied - and we all somewhat try to get along - I think (except sometimes I
dare to utter blashphemy).
Peace and balance
Llewellyn
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