To: K-list
Recieved: 1999/01/07 02:04
Subject: Re: [K-list] Confusions and some understanding.
From: Wim Borsboom
On 1999/01/07 02:04, Wim Borsboom posted thus to the K-list:
At 01:48 AM 1/7/99 EST, you wrote:
In a message dated 1/5/99 10:27:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, wimATnospamzerius.com
writes:
> The Truth
> As long as there is belief there is no faith
> As...
>
>Okay you email sender you,
OK Lou, you :-) Got lots of time.
You are right, when I monopolize too much shut me up...
>what happens when one gets stuck on the first line?
>Not sure I get it.
OK
Belief's underpinnings are:
1 self doubt (some body robbed your sense of self, doubt is debt)
2a what you believe does not have a strong conviction in you
2b belief is directed away from yourself
2b the contents of your belief has to be spruced up time and again
2c one leans on an authority figure who does the sprucing up
3 there is carrot and/or a stick in his/her hand (but you don not trust
that and fully)
4 what you have to believe, you don't understand (you are not even
supposed to)
5 your survival depends on that external belief and the procurator (?) of
that belief
6 if you are lucky belief can turn into faith
7 but only if the carrot/stick holder has discovered compassion and
releases you
8 Seeing the dubiousness of belief will start you on the path of faith and
trust
Faith's underpinnings are:
1a no doubt about a external certitude, but there is an inner conviction
1b this conviction can waver a bit over time
2 faith comes from yourself, but the source of that self is not clear
3 no threats or enticements needed, faith maintains itself
4 you only *understand* the object of your faith, it is a bit indirect
5 you do not *know* the object of your faith directly, but you see its glimmer
6 You have an inkling that you can reach that glimmer, that will turn into
light
7 When you reach that light, there will be certitude
Certitude's underpinnings are:
Hey, I want to go to bed now, do you mind trying this yourself.?
A big hint about illusion though.
This is important.
What follows is what the Buddha Gautama originally said, but we forgot, and
got deluded by wrong interpretations of well meaning explicators.
When I was still in school and told my religion prof about sin and evil,
that sin and evil did not exist... could not exist....by definition (how
can negatives exist, really, a bit of logic suffices here), that night
young Buddha came to me and told me I was on the right track.
I wrote a long essay about it, but I got eventually ridiculed (illussive
stick), the prof threatened me with the illusive devil. Burn the essay.
I have posted about the illusive threats that accompany abuse of power a
few times already.
That is the crux, power abuse is all make-believe, that and what follows
from it is illusion.
Stealing your energy (under the threat of the stick) ...and you are... in
debt, you are the sufferer, they got you by the ....
Stealing your energy with the enticement of a cookie, or a candy, or a
carrot, or a goodie goodie feeling. (or is it cooky and goody?) Anyway, Y
or ie.....you are in debt, the happy sufferer (old fashioned sacrifice).
Suffering is illusion, that is what Gautama said, Life is illusion. Life,
Illussive life that is. Interpretators did not see the subtility of this.
Life is suffering, but only that kind of life where abusive power maneuvers
play their games of havoc under the threat of fear. Living under the threat
of fear is suffering from illusions.
How come it seems more real than Reality? (Not now, I mean the answer.)
Life in truth and reality and love and bliss has nothing to do with illusion.
Do not let anyone ever try to convince you that this LIFE, TRUTH is
illusion. Buddhas do not say that. Buddhas may say something about
Nothingness or Emptiness.
But no matter what, that's another matter, never mind.
Some respondents did not fully get it, sssooo....
At one point I will shout it from the rooftops: LIFE IS REALITY!!! And you
know it, This is real!
Just answer this quickly, "This is it?" As soon as that question turns into
its own answer you get it.
For fear of monopolizing bandwidth I won't repe...
No I will,
So here it is again:
(-:?) Belief Belief Belief (!:-)
The Truth
As long as there is belief there is no faith
As long as there is faith there is no certitude
As long as there is certitude, there is no reality
As long as there is reality, illusion appears as real
As long as there is illusion, truth is en-veiled
Illusion gone, truth un-veiled
TRUTH:
LOVE
ALL
LOVE
ONE
SELF
there is nothing else to do than that
there is nothing else to be than that
nothing else is possible
anything that is not this
appears as illusion
illusion is......
illusion
love creates all from unity
one-->love-->all
love is mutuality
(no duallity)
(no duplicity)
(no complicity)
all-one
oneself
all-->love-->one
But then we knew that already.
As long as there is knowing there is...
As long.as there...
As long ...
As...
...
Outrageous Dancing is OK
As long as there is a question there is no answer.
... ... ...
... ...
...
.
Dear Lou,
I really appreciate your stopping in your tracks, and prompting me
Stop me in my tracks if need be, OK?
Love Wim
To All
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