1998/09/25 01:41
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #680
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 680
Today's Topics:
Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net> ]
Re: The out-of-body deal. [ Am <heidiATnospamadan.kingston.net> ]
Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ Antoine Carre <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca> ]
Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ "Mel August" <bodacia31ATnospamhotmail.com ]
Surrender key to empowerment [ nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net> ]
Re: Last question [ jwaltersATnospamridgecrest.ca.us ]
Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.c ]
Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG [ "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.c ]
Re: The out-of-body deal. [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
unsubscribe [ "logan chelliah" <loma_16ATnospamhotmail.c ]
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:57:20 -0600
From: nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG
Message-ID: <360B068C.F5A7117FATnospamwtp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Paul wrote:
> > Say "Goddess, please take this from me. It is a gift for you. Thankyou
> > very much."
>
> Why would you want to give anyone something like that as a gift?
Anyone? Angelique wrote "Goddess." From the divine perspective, nothing is
pleasant/unpleasant, good/bad. It just is. Giving what is affirms that it's
all of the divine anyway.
Paul, I don't believe you are being serious with this question. It seems once
again that you have fallen into word games to give your mind a challenge.
Ironically, you--a highly intellegent person--are coming across as a
simpleton.
Angelique, you put into words the exact issue so many of us have with giving
up control. We have seized the illusion of control so we could cope through
the hardships, ugliness and brutality that we may have faced. To give that up
seems insane. Afterall, it's the only thing between us and the big bad world.
But you are so right. As we do release control, one millimeter at a time, the
peace and saneness are overwhelming.
Nancy
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:50:06 -0400
From: Am <heidiATnospamadan.kingston.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-Id: <199809250250.WAA09136ATnospamadan.kingston.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Oh yes, it is entirely possible to have OBEs using "the vibrations" as
>the out of body travelers call them. I would get these weird
>feelings and then I would be out flying around the room and other
>places.
I get vibrations starting at the soles of my feet every night, moving slowly
up my legs sometimes us far as my solar plexus and lately also in the palms
of my hands. This is however not all. I need to know from someone who's
experienced this:
After the vibrations (very mild and pleasant) I feel like my body begins to
move in a slow liquid movement although it is NOT my body moving. It seems
like there is another body of mine moving. Sometimes it feels like my leg
stretches to the length of about two or three more feet, I can feel this
very clearly. Lately my arms do the same. My physical body seems confused by
this because my muscles seem to want to follow this "stretching". Before
every onset of this phenomena I feel little pinpricks here and there on my
skin like on my face or my feet, legs and arms and also my fingers. I've
read of the "cobweb" effect which is more gentle and I've experienced that
for many months. Now it's more like little piercing needle pains which leave
after a while. Also, before every time that this "stretching" of limbs
ocurrs, it feels like another skin is leaving my real skin. (I'm not much
into snakes so I don't think I'll turn into one :)
I know this may sound right off the wall but so be it, that's what is
happening. And yes, I do practice every night to do an OBE. On this list, I
have so far not come accross this liquid moving of a body one cannot see.
Does anyone know about this? I would be happy to have some feedback. I do
not believe that we all need to go through the exact same phenomena to
experience an OBE. Rather, I think that we will each have our own unique
experiences depending on our individual physical make up and mindset.
Robert Munroe's book has been the first one to enlighten me on the subject
and I have not stopped to gain entrance (or is it exit??) into the other
realm since.
Looking forward to some answers, I may have come as far as i can go on my own.
Thank you and please: DO live in JOY
Am
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:53:18 -0400
From: Antoine Carre <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca>
To: Paul <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG
Message-id: <01bde82f$a63a7dc0$8e65fdcfATnospamantoine>
>> Say "Goddess, please take this from me. It is a gift for you. Thankyou
>> very much."
>
>Why would you want to give anyone something like that as a gift?
>
>--
>Paul.
Paul you are not clear.
What is it you are trying to say? what is it that you want to not to not
give, or something like that....
Speak from your heart Paul.
You are not clear Paul.
What i understand from your statement is that their is something in you that
you feel that cannot be given. What is it? I will take it, if you have the
courage to give it.
I love you Paul
Antoine
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:55:23 PDT
From: "Mel August" <bodacia31ATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, GISLENNEATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG
Message-ID: <19980925025523.23577.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Gis wrote...
>yes, they were hard, and I thought I had gotten over everything, but i
guess
>not, I cry with such emotion and I can see my self a s a child when i
cry...I
>am wondering if the asthma has to do with this and all the pain
also..but as I
>said i can deal with the pain, its the not being able to breath!! nI
feel as
>though i nedd someone to hold me and tell me it is all alright, that
they are
>sorry and of course i know they are ...i can share this with my
husband, but
>I'm afraid to cry in front of others...whats going on here?
>
> I love you all.......gis
>
Gis...
We all hold you in our minds and hearts...and it will be fine. I also
have asthma...have been through similar experiences...and what you just
did here helps. I have always had the worst of my breathing problems
during those times when my pain swamped me. Let it out...
as often as possible...in whatever feels like the most positive way for
you.
Don't beat yourself with your past...and don't allow it to beat you.
You are incredibly strong or you never would have made it this far.
You have people in your life right now that you can trust with your
past...and your future...let them help you...it doesn't make you
weaker...it makes you stronger...and makes them feel less helpless as
well.
Maybe would help if you make a copy of what you just wrote...and
burn/bury it...release that anger/pain/fear...and you will breathe
easier.
We are everywhere...and we are with you.
Blessed be...and safe journeys,
Bodacia
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Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:17:25 -0600
From: nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Surrender key to empowerment
Message-ID: <360B0B40.98C78BFAATnospamwtp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
I made a great discovery this week: the more I let go, the more strength
I gain.
This realization started with my weight lifting regimin. I had been
going about things pretty unconscously, doing what my trainer told me to
do and paying no attention to what my body was doing.
A couple weeks ago, I told him that I had the idea if I focused, I could
lift about 20% more weight, which I did to his amazement.
This week he started me on a new program using very specific positions
to work select just the right muscle group. He told me that since I was
ready to be focused and had a base of strength built up, he was now
going to show me how to reshape my body.
It dawned on me. It's just like spiritual awakening. You go through life
unconsciously and then all of a sudden, it just clicks. I remember a
passage I once read in the book "Writing Down the Bones" (could have
been "Wild Mind" though) by Natalie Goldberg. Natalie tells how she
wanted to learn to be a runner. She started working with a trainer and a
group of wanna-bes. She consistently practiced and didn't notice any
rapid progression. Then one day, she broke free and ran like a wild
woman. Her trainer told her that if she knew how to write, she would
know how to run. Once we know how to break out of the self-fulfilling
constraints of our limiting ideas, expectations and abilities, we can
let that wild side, that place of spirit, work through us.
The amusing part of this work out is that as I reshape my body, I
reshape my life. It's an external symbolism of spirit reconfiguring
things. I learn to surrender to the weight and find the strength.
One area that I have been still having problems is with my skin. It
seems that my hormones must be changing because I'm breaking out like a
teenager. A while ago I tried some samples for acne cream from a doctor.
I ran out and now the problem has been worse. The cream did improve
things but didn't solve the acne problem. I needed something stronger.
But I figured that I had better call and at least restart using the
cream. Except, when I called, I gave the name of an acne cream I had
never used or remember hearing of! I didn't realize it until I saw the
sample bottles. Isn't that weird? It will undoubtedly work even better!
I'll give a pimple update in a few weeks....:-)
Nancy
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:24:03 +0000
From: jwaltersATnospamridgecrest.ca.us
To: "Hudson Jackson II" <hjackson2ATnospamhotmail.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Last question
Message-Id: <199809250329.UAA21191ATnospamridgecrest.ca.us>
Hudson,
The effect is especially strong and distracting during the early
stages of the awakening process. Initially the slightest tease
can send one right through the roof. The passion is just intense.
Later on one gets to the point where you can take it or leave it.
The attraction to others seems to remain, but you can get some
control over that.
A couple of things to do:
* Do a meditation that balances your body's energy, either a seated
meditation or an active one like Tai Chi or both. This will help with
your own drive.
* Learn to filter / shield your self/chakra/etc. Basicly amounts to
putting up a shield in front of your chakras (or a filter). This can
reduce or stop your leakage of energy. This had the double effect of
reducing your influence on others and at the same time saving you
from feeling the other person's feelings or attractions.
* Learn to reduce the intensity of the your energy.
* Change the type of energy your running. Tap into a cooler
energy source. This one is just a can of worms - a cooler form of
energy, earth, can also cause you problems if you try and run more of
it than your ready for. Of course by the time you
get to this point you'll have a lot of control anyway.
Good luck,
James
> >Can it cause people to become sexually attractive to you .......sort of
> like
> >a magnet effect??? kinda like vibrations or signals going off??? and
> if so
> >how do you stop it? Should you stop it and how can you tell for sure
> that
> >is what is happening?
>
> I'm having a similar situation, but I sho' ain't attracting anyone! I'm
> always having to deal with it at bedtime, and I have no control over it.
> Don't expect to be able to do so, either. I know it's annoying, but you
> can't fight it.
>
> If anyone can discuss managing it, please let me know. Mahalo and
> 'loha!
>
> - Hudson
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Java (n.): Coffee fit for consumption by computer.
>
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
Date: 25 Sep 98 04:49:25 +0000
From: "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG
Message-Id: <OUT-360B20D5.MD-1.0.paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> >> Say "Goddess, please take this from me. It is a gift for you. Thankyou
> >> very much."
> >
> >Why would you want to give anyone something like that as a gift?
> Paul you are not clear.
>
> What is it you are trying to say? what is it that you want to not to not
> give, or something like that....
Hmm. Well it was just a joke but I know that it can be serious, the
surrendering thing. I've done it a few times when I felt so lost. Just
admitted I had no idea. Without moving anywhere it was given away. But
in this case I was joking.
> Speak from your heart Paul.
>
> You are not clear Paul.
It is difficult to speak from my heart, or at least that's how I
experience it because I don't actually do it. Almost always I feel
kind of angry, aggressive, refusing. I guess it's stubbornness.
Funny though, about five minutes ago my face was alight. :-) Seeing
through the eyes of the heart is very joyful and maybe it is reality,
but I feel there are other kinds of absoluteness also, which I am
exploring.
> What i understand from your statement is that their is something in you that
> you feel that cannot be given. What is it? I will take it, if you have the
> courage to give it.
Something in me that cannot be given? Well, it is said that you cannot
love others until you love yourself. I have been struggling with the
idea of communication the past few days. It appears sometimes that any
activity is an illusion. But this is because I look at it in an
illusionary way. The thing I can't give away is the thing I hold onto,
and the reason I hold onto it is because I feel like I can't let it go
or I wouldn't have it. Simple I suppose but sometimes reality seems
like something I don't want.
I am also struggling with the idea of it being a person's own choice
to have freedom or to be happy. I have never been able to believe that
because so much of me was on auto-pilot. I haven't for a while been as
rationally clear as I have been just recently, much more self-aware,
but it seems to be shining an intense light on something maybe I am
not ready to see or something. Maybe it is a lesson that there is no
hurry. I comprehend that my intellect is shoulders-up as angelique
rightly said, and I feel much more relaxed in that area now and have
felt a warming inside just recently. But it is still a bit difficult
for me to truly let go. I feel I have to cover all the bases in order
for it to be justified. For some reason I have a thing about justice,
which is a kind of feeling of something being deserved. So you may
well ask what is it that I believe I deserve. I suppose I think that
other people deserve my understanding and forgiveness and so I give it
irrationally. I think that's a problem and it's difficult to take back
my absorbative nature.
I have to say though I am finding it harder and harder to say some of
the things I used to say about myself. The words don't want to leave
my lips/fingers so readily. It's like I don't even quite know what the
words are or how to say them. You know all the things I have said in
the past that I thought were descriptions of myself, I was so
convinced of it. Whatever state I was in I was sure I was being as
honest as I could be at the time, and so I stated that I was this and
that, but I was still wrong. I did my best. I think I have a thing
about being perfect, which you probably worked out for yourself.
So am I letting go do you think? Am I giving this to you or is this
too optimistic to be a surrendering? I've been in a strange state for
a few days, on and off. It's like detatchment in that I have no
knowledge of things but I still feel kind of empty in it. I just wish
my heart would beat a little faster about being alive. Greatfulness is
really difficult for me, or at least it was. I'm getting better at it.
Seems to be true that you can choose to be happy. Sometimes I believe
that I am unhappy because of this and that. I don't think I am about
to cry my eyes out to you in revealing all sorts of horrible things
about myself. I am not sure I am in so much denial anymore, or that
the only reason I was crying was because I was being so hard on myself
suggesting that those things actually were wrong with me, not because
of what they were but because I believed it was true. I feel happier,
more peaceful, more me, which brings me closer to you.
> I love you Paul
>
> Antoine
>
Thankyou,
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 25 Sep 98 05:32:10 +0000
From: "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Hi all, me again ....LONG
Message-Id: <OUT-360B236E.MD-1.0.paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Nancy,
> > > Say "Goddess, please take this from me. It is a gift for you. Thankyou
> > > very much."
> >
> > Why would you want to give anyone something like that as a gift?
> Paul, I don't believe you are being serious with this question.
Correct :-)
> It seems once
> again that you have fallen into word games to give your mind a challenge.
Oh, not it wasn't that. I was just happy. I thought it was kind of
funny to be giving such jucky stuff to someone so admired. I had to
laugh. That person laughed with me, I think that's what they wanted.
:-)
> Ironically, you--a highly intellegent person--are coming across as a
> simpleton.
Maybe we should inquire about intelligence then? I think I can see how
what i said could be appearing as a simpleton. Like, because it was
not taking angelique's comment seriously it was as if I didn't
understand it or have any ability to. On the contrary. It's because I
have been there a few times before that this time there was a bit more
of a spontaneous healing. To be frank I didn't see anything serious
there. Isn't that good? I have been having the words to a different
song on my mind recently. It ends with "I won't be back, no I won't
be back, not this time". I am trying to choose to be happier and to
choose to see things in a lighter way. I do know though that over the
years I have acted a lot and pretended a lot so maybe I don't
appreciate how it appears to others?
As for intelligence I feel I am tapping in to more intelligence in my
heart than I ever had in my head. Less of the stupid games that I
play, apparently unknowingly, the more still I seem to get and there
is intelligence in that.
> Angelique, you put into words the exact issue so many of us have with giving
> up control. We have seized the illusion of control so we could cope through
> the hardships, ugliness and brutality that we may have faced. To give that up
> seems insane. Afterall, it's the only thing between us and the big bad world.
If I may comment, I don't think I'm in the kind of mood at the moment
to really relate to the dark state you refer to, but I feel that half
of the reason I cried about being so lost was because I punished
myself with the belief that I WAS lost in the first place. I thought
that, ok, the lonelyness was the problem and that i had it, it was
some other thing. But I wonder if it wasn't the suggestion that I was
lonely at all that did more of the NEW damage at the time. Maybe I was
just playing a funny game in my head but when angelique commented
about giving away the things that you have tried to handle but can't
(I carry the world on my shoulders sometimes), I think I just WASN'T
carrying the world at that moment. So I saw it as funny, played with
the words a bit, saw some funny idol and me trying to give a funny
jucky mess to it as some kind of present. It was just too funny at the
time. I've been in the frame of mind where it's not funny, before,
where you might take it more seriously what she said, but as I say
there was some deception in even accepting it to that extent. Okay if
you have some crap wrong with you accept it and admit you can't cope
with trying to achieve what only god can, but if you look at it enough
I think really it's an illusion that you even have the thing wrong
with you in the first place, and IMO the depression that there is
something unacceptable about yourself seems to come about more
because you are trying to acccept that you are wrong in some way
but truly you aren't wrong at all. I think that I have cried more
from trying to accept that I have things wrong with me than any
so-called `admitting' that it was there. Who in their right mind
would play down their self-love by agreeing that there is something
wrong with them? Yes, true, it can be very convincing, and when you
are convinced you are wrong, or in denial of that conviction, you
think it's better to admit to it. It's a very painful way though,
it doesn't have to work like that. You don't have to tell yourself
that yes you are an intellectual asshole just so that you will stop
being one. Telling yourself that you are that in the first place is
new damage being done in the name of old damage that you think you
are holding onto. I don't see much point in that anymore. I used
to, mind you.
Trying to accept something that is unacceptable, and
failing to do so, is so often frowned upon. It's tragic really. I
cannot accept that I am egotistical. Does this mean that I am?
Possible if I accepted that unacceptable thing I would change somehow,
and maybe it is through that that growth occurs. But then you grow a
come back to the lovely state of not knowing there to be anything
wrong with you, and so not being in denial and knowing that you're not
intellectual and such. Then people come along and say oh right, you're
this and that, if you don't admit it then you're in denial. But the
fact is that the so-called state of denial is in some ways a state of
reality, and it only appears false because of the way illusion inverts
everything. You always thing the enemy is the friend and the friend is
the enemy. So you go about trying to admit that you are so corrupt and
so on and shed lots of tears and ache, but you ache more because you
punish yourself with these suggestions of what you are than for any
hurt that these things might actually do to you. Still, as I said, it
is on that vessel that you journey in a mind-expanding kind of
horizon-broadening adventure. You're only ever a failure in the eyes
of `other' anyway, or when you yourself have a split in your own eyes
which is the same thing.
There are some people that go with where the thing seems to be headed
and they exude a lot of emotionalism in a physical way, into the
world. It seems to get them to the same place in the end but usually
there is a lot of new damage performed during the attempt to accept
this thing that is supposedly wrong about yourself. In fact, it is
easier to accept something that is true than to accept something which
is false. And there is no such thing as the truth that there is
something corrupt about you. Never. You don't necessarily have to go
through the stage of giving in and breaking down in order to find
admittance of yourself. You never are meant to admit these corruptions
into yourself you only use them as a vessel to gain readmittence to
yourself, as you are already perfect. Admitting the nasty thing is
only like doing so for the sake of opening the door again, keeping the
guard happy. I don't think that's really so necessary you know. You
can just tap in to the fact that there is nothing wrong with you at
all. Admit your true self to your true self. There aren't any
gatecrashers to heaven's party you know. At least that's my
opinion anyway. Only the true you gets to admit the true you. Let
yourself in, like. Which means letting God in I suppose, if there
is such a thing. Only being sure of the fact that you can't be sure of
anything is the only way that I ever God in touch with that god-thing,
and due to the nature of that I never had anything to confirm that it
was God. Who knows. Some people need to break down in a very physical
way in order to let God in or to let go of something, it's like a kind
of ritual. Maybe it's normal to do that and maybe I don't do it
because I am not such a real human. But who cares.
> But you are so right. As we do release control, one millimeter at a time, the
> peace and saneness are overwhelming.
Amen.
>
> Nancy
>
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:31:53 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>, "Am" <heidiATnospamadan.kingston.net>
Subject: Re: The out-of-body deal.
Message-ID: <002801bde845$f1bb18c0$70d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes,
I have had these exact sensations recently. The vibrations are more or less
continuous at a low level, but then they grow in amplitude at night before
sleep. A few times it is like a vortex that sucks me out of the top of my
head.
The feeling of my legs (both of them) growing is very strange, but not
unpleasant. I really felt as if they had stretched at least a foot.
I've had the prickles or little pinpricks, too. I wonder if they are
acupuncture points being stimulated.
I can't tell you what any of this means except that I feel it is related to
out of body stuff. Does anyone know more about this?
Sharon
>I get vibrations starting at the soles of my feet every night, moving
slowly
>up my legs sometimes us far as my solar plexus and lately also in the palms
>of my hands. This is however not all. I need to know from someone who's
>experienced this:
>
>After the vibrations (very mild and pleasant) I feel like my body begins to
>move in a slow liquid movement although it is NOT my body moving. It seems
>like there is another body of mine moving. Sometimes it feels like my leg
>stretches to the length of about two or three more feet, I can feel this
>very clearly. Lately my arms do the same. My physical body seems confused
by
>this because my muscles seem to want to follow this "stretching". Before
>every onset of this phenomena I feel little pinpricks here and there on my
>skin like on my face or my feet, legs and arms and also my fingers. I've
>read of the "cobweb" effect which is more gentle and I've experienced that
>for many months. Now it's more like little piercing needle pains which
leave
>after a while. Also, before every time that this "stretching" of limbs
>ocurrs, it feels like another skin is leaving my real skin. (I'm not much
>into snakes so I don't think I'll turn into one :)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 00:45:52 PDT
From: "logan chelliah" <loma_16ATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <19980925074553.16931.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
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unsubcribe
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