1998/09/23 21:27
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #676
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 676
Today's Topics: Re: Detatchment [ "Paul" ]
Anyone tried a mixture of chi kung a [ "William Gant" ] Re: unsubscribe [ "prem kumar" ]
Nannu [ "ernie and billie vieluf" ] Re: P,K,K9 [ "Evelyn Niedbalec"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Detatchment
Message-Id:
> Hi Paul. Interesting overview of pure detachment, at least from my > perspective. So, if I agree with what you said (and I did), does that mean
> detachment as preached by every Buddist, Yogi, Hindu, Zen, etc. etc. etc. and > every great written sacred work back from as far back as we can see, is not so
> great after all?
I would say so. You can't be given it. To take nothing personally means that you, personally, not anyone on your behalf, claims the
crown of nothing, which means not claiming the credit for things, which is I think humility so long as it is not irresponsibility.
> I for one, don't really want to attain attachment if this is
> where I'll end up. I kind of like the illusion. I am sure your message used > sarcasm to get the point across and it did it well, but now what?
I don't think I was trying to be sarcastic. I just wrote it.
> Do we just
> say, oh forget it, and do something else?
We? Dependency on taking somebody elses life personally?
> There must be something that is > driving us all on this list to seek the truth and every sage I have read says
> the same thing, detachment is a key step,
Well look at it this when. When you are detatched you don't go anywhere. There is no movement away from where you are, and you `are'
always. Just being yourself, doing your thing in your time, singing your song as UG puts it, doesn't take you anywhere. And yet quite a
lot of time can pass, but you still feel that you have moved nowhere, that you are being the same now as you were being back then, which is
like not having altered the slighted bit, which is the transcendence of time and space.
> so what gives????? What is your
> take? Thanks Lou
Not much point in telling you my take. If I did would you allow it to affect you and would that be right? Conversion is possible but there
is only nothing that can be given, and `nothingness' is whole. Apparently.
I had no take when I wrote the message. I have a bit of one now I must
admit. See, there isn't /rationality/ about being attatched to things. Some music was playing. Ok, so it was audible to me. It was like it
just passed right through me, nothing that I had to do (I /did/ `nothing', was nothing, if you get the picture). But then I found
myself listening to the music, which was a concentration. I looked at the concentration. I saw that I was shutting something out in order to
focus with exclusion. I didn't know what I was shutting out. It is not possible to see it. I looked further and I noticed that I was taking
the music personally, the words, the atmosphere. I was allowing it to affect me, to be an influence upon me like a giving up of freedom.
Apparently I withdrew my attatchment then but I can't be sure as it seems to happen totally beyond my comprehension. Not something that
actually can be pinned down long enough to reel off useful information about. But I figure you can say the music was still there, it was
still playing, it was still audible to `me' (absence of me), but I didn't /know/ it was playing, didn't have knowledge about it playing.
And the only way to have that knowledge is to to attatched to the music, to be mediumistic of it, to let it affect you, and to take it
personally.
Taking nothing personally means to take the whole impersonal-ness personally. Taking a THING personally means that there are TWO things
involved, not a whole, but instead you and it, or so it appears. Then there is conflict. And although you are taking it personally on the
one hand for the way you let yourself dwell in pleasure about it, on the other hand you also despise it. Illusion is two-faced like that.
Only when that illusion is not there does the seperation that defines duality slip away and then there is non-duality, which you cannot
confirm the existence of. Like last night I saw that I had a tremendous image of God as something I could know existed, that I had
knowledge about it, confirmation, ways in which I was persuaded against my control (by which I mean there was loss of freedom so entry
INTO control). The illusionary form of control is on the one hand a restraint and on the other hand a license. But anyway.. I saw that
this knowledge I had of the existence of God was phoney. I didn't do anything else then. You don't need to. You only need to see it for
what it is, no by definition but just what's there without addition or subtraction. So I saw that and that's all there is to say. No else.
Nothing else.
So you're asking me what my angle is and I suggest to you that angles are a kind of meaning, a kind of causal opinion about one thing
affecting another. Cause and effect is an illusionary view of reality in which there is much time and seperation. See, most of my life I
have been an emotional person and I have the feeling that I will not do something unless it seems to be meaningful. And I thought, well,
maybe that's a good thing in fact. But now this is not so. Now I feel much more rational, more intelligent, more awake. Or should I say, I
think that's how I am. That's my interpretation of it. Now I can do things simply because it is rational to do so, none of the old
intuition shambles and the synchronicity romance that I used to be involved in.
I don't feel at-peace saying this because I am having to use some
knowledge and some interpretation but this kind of comes halfway towards meeting you. I can't tell you what my angle was at the time of
writing because I wasn't in a state where it is possible to have angles. Unfortunately I'm more of an identity right now so I hope I
haven't confused you too much.
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 23 Sep 98 23:19:47 +0000 From: "Paul"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Detatchment
Message-Id:
Katrina,
> does this > shed any light on your take? much love and great light to you, katrina
Hehe, yes thankyou. It was mainly my words which had to have a tone of
isolation in order to describe but for a while there I felt more rational and detatched and loving than I have felt for many years
Thanks again for your nice words
Today I think I have been taking a good step in the right direction. I
am finding, unexpectedly, that there is such a thing as necessary work. I have for a long time had a problem with work and employment in
that I always needed to see meaning and other irrational comforts. But today this sudden increase in compassionate intelligence has me seeing
that with a bit of rationality there comes about a work which almost seems to do itself, which seems to love to do itself, a work which is
fluid and simple. I am very happy about that. I would say I am going to try and be more rational but that's a mind trick.
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:07:56 EDT From: GISLENNEATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Hi all, me again
Message-ID:
Hi Everyone
I hope i am not becoming a pain in the butt, but i am making a website for my book as well, so I wish to gather all my letters on your experiences so
that i can edit everything and get the book together...
so the next experiences that i need are the ones involving hatha yoga and everything associated with that and shaking/nervouseness...
Please private e-mail me....
also excuse me if i seem abrupt, my back is killing me, I have had asthma
this ENTIRE week..and I feel like I am getting the flu...I did not get any sleep last night and I am Tired!!
I love you all.......Gis
Date: 24 Sep 98 00:37:58 +0000 From: "Paul"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: beware spooky dream kundalini rising
Message-Id:
> >The unconscious only appears as the opposite sex when there is > >illusion inbetween, defining it as other than the whole self.
> > Paul, Angelique:
> Actually, it's symbolic of the two aspects of a person > (masculine/feminine). . . isn't it?
There are two aspects to a person?
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:57:18 -0500
From: nannuATnospamcombase.com To: "Kundalini-l"
Subject: Verse VI Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
THE WAY TO SELF KNOWLEDGE (V. VI)
If you find self-reform too hard,
In spite of your intense desire, For lack of firmness to discard
The habits that stink of the mire,
There is no reason to despair, Try what you can time and again,
Beseech your Maker to repair The faults and you in strength will gain.
If meditation does not suit
Your inclination or your taste, You can select another route
At once and let no time go waste.
A simple prayer from the heart, Full of devotion, hope and love
So deep they make your eyes to smart With tears and lift your mind above
The cares and fears which e'er assail
The God-forsaken worldly mind, And its attention firmly nail
To things our soul with fetters bind,
Repeated with assiduity, Day after day, at the same time,
With faith in one's divinity And longing for the Life Sublime,
Can slowly act, like to a balm,
Upon the world-torrnented brain, Its passions cool, its fever calm
And for the Crown of Glory train.
The aim of worship, Yoga or Other religious exercise
Is to divert our thinking, for Awhile, from trifles, which we prize,
Towards the glorious realm of God,
But we, believing earth is all, And we the products of her sod,
Cut off completely by the wall
Of senses all our life remain, Without our knowledge, choice or will,
Obedient prisoners of our brain Until death strikes it cold and still.
That is why nature has instilled
In us the deep desire to solve, Our mystery which, when fulfilled
The walls confining us dissolve.
Whate'er discoveries we have made, Inventions done or knowledge gained,
At death, irretrievably fade And not one atom is retained.
What truck- loads of joy will it bring,
If lost to this world in a dream, One is annointed as a King,
Attired in gold and fed on cream.
Science is proud that it has filled The earth with plenitude and ease,
Tamed time and distance, famine killed, Defeated drought, subdued disease.
But all this in the prison-yard,
Of flesh or Life's prolonged dream, Where senses all the entries guard,
And make pure shadows real seem.
Science is rooted in the dream, And ne'er awakens from its sleep,
Hence it will of the high esteem It has won but a fraction keep,
When, with the methods known of yore,
The enterprising of the race, Begin reporting at that Shore
And come back Resurrected by Grace
To sing in poetry and prose The wonders of that Realm Divine,
Where senses their main office close To allow Infinity to shine.
The flood of wonders science wrought
Already seen by mortal eyes, Has not prevented human thought
>From wistfully looking at the skies.
Because the Prize there has no peer In all the wonders it has wrought,
That can make one a sage or seer Who has won to the Source of Thought
The world, when looked at with the eye
Of science, no meaning shows nor aim, We ne'er can say nor find out why
We all are here or whence we came.
The reason why wise nature mocks At our attempts to read her plan
Is that proud science the window locks Through which we could the drawing scan.
To assume that senses and the mind
Are both, without a shade of doubt, The best informers we can find
To study and to know about
The world and all it does contain, Is but our boundaries to seal,
For we know not about the brain What secrets it might soon reveal.
That is why science is engrossed
In piling up new arms to kill, But when the false outpost is crossed
In future, who will foot the bill?
The earth is in a sullen mood Enwrapt in darkness at full noon,
Her snoring elders, with their brood, Make drowsy crowds dance to their tune.
This welter of metallic toys
Will not take mankind very far, Because too soon the playful boys
Will use them for a deadly war.
Wednesday, September 23, 1998 Author: Gopi Krishna/Verse VI
------------------------------------------------
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Date: 24 Sep 98 01:12:22 +0000 From: "Paul"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: (no subject)
Message-Id:
Hi.
A few people from this list have sent me offensive messages recently. I would like to say that those of you that have done this can go to
hell, but I am more forgiving than that. Just as I was starting to find a friend in myself too.
Certain people keep hitting some considerable distance from the mark.
Goes to show that people expect you to behave the way you always did even though they moan on about you changing. People saying treating me
with a maliceful intent as if based on an image of me aged early-teens is not very pleasant when we get down to it. I am 23 not 13. Those of
you that this refers to know who you are.
I perceive that for a very long time I have been very dependent on appearances and upon taking things personally. If anybody knows what
it is like to be there they will know that there is no actual ability to get what you want, or to know what you really want. You go about
bull-headed having to use force to achieve any kind of posessions or make any kind of success, and so many things go wrong. When you start
to get some sanity into your life and purity in your heart it is a totally different thing to not `feel' so much, to not have so many
opinions about everything, and to not be affected by everything. You actually start to tap into yourself, to find that there are things
that you want yourself and not because of somebody else. You start to find that not taking everything personally, which causes loss of
freedom, gives you a certain /true/ personal opinion, something truly of your own - your self. And then you get a sense of acting as
yourself not as a puppet under the influence of the appearance of everything else. Music that plays but does not affect the atmosphere
in your mind.
Those of you who reject that this is unfolding in me, or that it means anything to me, or that I am so cold and dead that I have to be
treated as your most horrific vision of the devil, belong with him. See, I don't care no more. I do not intend to offend you with this but
I have totally had enough of being manipulated and the manipulator. If you think I'm some stupid little child that is getting drawn into line
by authoritative parents you've got another thing coming. I am angry now, for which I am sorry.
Peace,
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Alcott Shaver To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: 2 Art Proposals Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Howdy y'all: I have 2 ideas for the artists among us.
1) A send-one-get-one scheme whereby you send a (cheap)
original piece of art to another list member, and somebody else sends one to you. I would be willing to play random matchmaker
unless somebody else really wants to.
2) An online gallery of listees' works, K-inspired or not. I will soon be taking some HTML workshops, but I can't do this yet.
Maybe someone wants to volunteer their time, scanner, and bandwidth?
Email either me or the list at large if you have any thoughts.
Love, Andy
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:53:42 +1200 From: Jax
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: beware spooky dream kundalini rising
Message-Id:
Paul wrote:
>> >The unconscious only appears as the opposite sex when there is >> >illusion inbetween, defining it as other than the whole self.
>> >> Paul, Angelique:
>> Actually, it's symbolic of the two aspects of a person >> (masculine/feminine). . . isn't it?
> >There are two aspects to a person?
> >--
>Paul. >
Yes! Yin and Yang, masculine and feminine... all part of the wonderful
dualities we experience in our being human. It ties in with the thought that we are all one. Inside we all have the capacity to be magical child,
father, wise woman, axe murder, healer... the list is limited only by the imagination.
There are archetypes that can make the list simpler and smaller where there are
Hero, adversary, masculine, feminine, divine child, and others ... Its a wonderful area especially if you work with your dreams...
...jacqueline
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:36:33 PDT From: "William Gant"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Anyone tried a mixture of chi kung and meditation?
Message-ID:
Has anyone out there tried a mixture of chi kung and meditation to
achieve kundalini? If so, please tell me about it as I am attempting it.
Thanks in advance, William Gant
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:07:42 -0400
From: "Kat" To:
Subject: Last question Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
I was going to unsubscribe tonight but I need to ask one last question before I disappear for a month......
This is not easy either!!!
I have started to wonder something........When the Kundalini is rising can
it affect you and other people around you in a sexual type way?
Can it cause people to become sexually attractive to you .......sort of like a magnet effect??? kinda like vibrations or signals going off??? and if so
how do you stop it? Should you stop it and how can you tell for sure that is what is happening?
I have reason's for asking......it might explain why something happened in
my life.
If this is happening how can one be sure that a person that is attracted to you is attracted to you and not the kundalini energy?
Do I send this or not...................what the hell I can always come back with a new name!
In L&L & Understanding,
Kat
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:14:02 PDT From: "prem kumar"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Message-ID:
unsubscribe
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:12:41 -0500
From: "ernie and billie vieluf" To: "Kundalini Group"
Subject: Nannu Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0096_01BDE73F.481F2B00"
Nannu, thank you for the poem. Keep the
faith,ernie Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:14:00 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" To: "Kat" ,
Subject: Re: Last question Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Kat wrote: >I have started to wonder something........When the Kundalini is rising can
>it affect you and other people around you in a sexual type way?
yep.
>Can it cause people to become sexually attractive to you .......sort of
like >a magnet effect???
yep.
> kinda like vibrations or signals going off???
yep.
>how do you stop it?
beats me.
>Should you stop it and how can you tell for sure that
>is what is happening?
Stop Shakti? You've got to be kidding.
>I have reason's for asking......it might explain why something happened in
>my life.
I suspect so.
>If this is happening how can one be sure that a person that is attracted to
>you is attracted to you and not the kundalini energy?
maybe after awhile there isn't any difference.
>Do I send this or not...................what the hell I can always come
back >with a new name!
yep.
Love, Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu Ten new Moods & Faces were
added to this site Sept.19, 1998
Sixteen new Fractalscapes were added to this page on Sept. 13, 1998
Fractals and 2D and 3D graphics
http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/
Winner of twenty top web awards. Free screensaver and wallpaper d/l.
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:55:42 PDT From: "Evelyn Niedbalec"
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: P,K,K9
Message-ID:
>
>Hi Charan, >
>>I understand in humans some of do suffer due to injury because of karma and
>>if someone does put us out of misery then we are born again and suffer >>further because we couldn't finish off the karma in the last life due
>>someone interfering. >
>I understand what you are saying here but give this idea a thought as well.
>Perhaps the person that is putting a person out of thier misery is just >completeing one of the jobs that they had to do while they were here in
>order to correct some of their karma and it is also connected with the karma
>of the person that they are helping. Just a thought. >
>In L&L & Understanding, >
>Kat >
I wonder if it is really possible to have cut and dry answers to many
situations. I think we have to look inside ourselves carefully and try to do what feels right (not what is easy) in each situation. I do not
think making a mistake will cause bad karma as long as the action was performed in good faith.
At the same time, I also do not think of Karma in the same way as I
often see it spoken of. I do not believe it is something that is measured and tabulated like a cup of sugar until exact balances are
reached. I believe we each go through whatever is necessary to learn the lessons we need to learn. What that entails will vary from person
to person. When the lessons are learned satisfactorily, the cycle is ended. But I do not think that we collect very specific amounts of
karma for every single action we take and that each thing must be exactly paid for in order to end the cycle. We need only learn the
lessons in whatever way it takes.
However, a kind of exception to this may be the life review I have so often heard of in stories of near death experiences. They say that when
you die, you will experience every good and bad thing that you have ever done in your life to other people (and probably animals too) from the
perspective of the OTHER person. Perhaps this is what is referred to in many writings about karma and being on the recieving end of your
actions. -E
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:57:14 EDT
From: MsSheWolfATnospamaol.com To: ****ATnospamtwsuvm.uc.twsu.edu
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: CFS/FMS
Message-ID:
Dear Jill,
I am back from helping my friend who was in the accident and am preparing to leave for Michigan this Sunday or Monday. Unfortunately, I have not had time
to locate the CFS Study, but you can be sure I will.
So Michigan is your home state. Rick is planning to take me up to the UP. For some reason, I believe you lived up there or you mentioned as a spiritual
place (I do not recall your exact description). I understand that you would not be enthralled about Kansas. Perhaps someday we could share a bit of
Michigan together.
Rick Puravs lives in Rogers City way up north. He has lived in Detroit and Saginaw, but it has been about 6 years I believe. He had been writing on the
list about Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia as it relates to Kundalini, and you did write something to him while we were on that thread. I don't think
he is the person who was suggested to talk to about his writing about the Vedas. You never know though what Rick will be knowledgeable about...he is
very bright and well read.
Your statements about intellectual capacity and that you regained strength and are up to full capacity are wonderful (as evidenced by your developing and
teaching a grad level course in cdeveloritical theory ? :)...you have exceeded any accomplishment I could conceive of, especially now. Nice that you paint
and instruct a painting class. My creative skills are limited to poetry and writing. I have worked in human services most of my life, and I have been
quite good at grant writing...most recent accomplishment was for a mentally ill and homeless program...awarded for $776,000. Those government grant
monies are drying up, and I find it difficult to support myself this way, especially since I moved here from Oregon and I lost my network.
I will be able to communicate with you and the list from Rick's home in Rogers
City. He has AOL, and I can sign on as a guest. If this living arrangement becomes permanent, the most that will happen is my email address will change.
Thank you for your best wishes for a positive change in my new life. I have a
good feeling about this and I am looking forward to intense study and practice in a loving/sharing environment. Please keep in touch.
Love, Cher
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:20:42 PDT From: "Evelyn Niedbalec"
To: kcliffordATnospamodyssey.on.ca, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Last question
Message-ID:
>From people I've talked to and met, it seems very common that k can both
stimulate one's own sex drive as well as increase one's sexual attractiveness to others. I have never heard of any way to prevent this
except of course to have good control over one's own mind and be very careful to be clear with your intentions towards others. I have noticed
that even animals are attracted to k awakened individuals. And for humans attraction in general is difficult to separate from sexual
attraction. And of course feeling extra healthy and energetic, as the k can make one feel, can only add the problem. I have only experienced
these events to a milder extent, luckily for me.
But I also do not think this is a one sided problem. To me, k causes one give off a stronger projection of your truer self. So while some
may be strongly attracted, some may be more strongly repelled than they would be otherwise. I have seen this with a k awakened person that I
know. People tend to instantly either love or hate him for no apparent reason. But I like to think one tends to attract more than repel
perhaps due to the inherent positive, correct, and powerful nature of the k. I think of k as causing charisma. But that of course does not
preclude that people will allow the charisma to take over their feelings and bypass logical thoughts of compatibility, etc.
Best of luck with your situation.
-E
>Hi All, >
>I was going to unsubscribe tonight but I need to ask one last question >before I disappear for a month......
> >This is not easy either!!!
> >I have started to wonder something........When the Kundalini is rising
can >it affect you and other people around you in a sexual type way?
> >Can it cause people to become sexually attractive to you .......sort of
like >a magnet effect??? kinda like vibrations or signals going off??? and
if so >how do you stop it? Should you stop it and how can you tell for sure
that >is what is happening?
> >I have reason's for asking......it might explain why something happened
in >my life.
> >If this is happening how can one be sure that a person that is
attracted to >you is attracted to you and not the kundalini energy?
> >
>Do I send this or not...................what the hell I can always come back
>with a new name! >
>In L&L & Understanding, >
>Kat >
>
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