1998/09/02 13:32
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #623
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 623
Today's Topics: FAITH versus Belief systems [ "Magne Aga" ]
Re: warning: negative vibes [ "Rick Puravs" ] Re: Warning-Positive Vibes [ "" ]
unsubscribe please [ "fuzzy" ] Re: Energy problems [ Danijel Turina ]
Re: Energy problems [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ] unsubscribe [ pawanATnospammilcse.cig.mot.com (Pawan Mat ]
unsubscribe [ Dan Margolis ] Re: thanks [ raptor ]
Hello [ "Autumn Sheffield" ] Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:38:38 +0200
From: "Magne Aga" To:
Subject: FAITH versus Belief systems Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
----------
* Kat > To believe anything is the beginning of a belief system no
> matter what words we put to it.
* Sharon > Kat, I think there is a big difference between belief and knowing.
Belief > incorporates other people's writings and ideas and experiences, but
KNOWING > comes from the depths of our being and grows from our own revelations and
> experience.
* Niedbalec > even the knowledge you get from knowing is filtered through a belief
> system of some sorts. Call it the Earth life belief system if you will, > but everyone has some preconcieved notions of what things mean and how
> things work and the "knowing" is interpreted by thoughts that are > constrained by that Earth life belief system. From the moment we pop
> out of the womb, our belief system is being structured and I do not > believe it is possible to shake it off completely.
* Sharon
> Sure, Evelyn. That's perfectly true. And further, everything we think is
> filtered through language. > What I was trying to say was, experience is a sort of proof that can
> transcend belief. > I can definitely relate to what you are saying, having recently gone
> through a similar descepticifying process myself.
Wonderfull ! I received some adverse reactions when I posted similar thougths here earlier. This was due to misunderstandings. We all have a
tendency to be provoked when our belief system is questioned.
Just as Love is the 4th dimensional counterpart of anger, depression, hatred - Love which has FALLEN into our dimension, so is belief systems
FAITH fallen.
Negative emotions can be - and must be - transmuted to love. Anger is not the opposite of love. Anger is love suppressed.
We have myriads of belief systems inherited subconscious from our
environment, our family, our cultural, religious, political, racial background. To examplify it: An airplane from New York to LA takes N hours.
When people travels by airplane, experiencing this interval - the whole group segment begins to accept these time limit as a belief system. But in
the state of Delta brainwaves, when we are awake in the mineral consciousness level, it's possible to teleportate !
Belief systems are relative. Faith is certainty absolute. Faith is resting
in the womb of the never-failing IT, which is trustable absolute, your never-betraying Beacon of Light. During my openings of my understanding
chakra (one of the secondary one's), I've been in states of utter confusion. When belief systems are decrystallized, it can be a painfull
process. Suddendly, we seemingly cannot trust anything in these world of relativity, these magic vision of maya, the veil between dimensions.
During the 4th initation, our belief systems are beeing splintered,
decrystallized into ten thousand pieces. But we should not focus on decrystallization. We should focus on the crystallization of our purpose
for beeing here. We should focus on manifesting the spiritual reason for why on Earth.
Only from the highest perspective are guidance trustable. In the Delta
state, the mineral consciousness of ascension, of teleportation, of bilocation, where I've been able to walk on two feets for hours - there's
no anti-pathy. There is no sympathy either. We cannot use these as references. And there's no Ego ! No relative references. We are One with
All. *Those who walks on Earth, walks on me*, Jesus said some place in the New Testament. The mineral consciousness cannot distinguish between
*itself* (the relative point) and the interacting environment. The observer and the observed are ONE ! Due to these non-dualism, the impossibility to
*define* it - because definition, measurement is maya (maya = measure, meter) - Gautama Buddha called it Nirvana, *nothing*. Personally, I prefer
to call it *no relative references*.
There doesn't exist anything *lower* or *higher* in these state. We realize how the lowest creatures, the most simple jobs, are NECESSARY for the
higher one's to exist. We reevaluate our view on the socalled *lower individuals* as the highest one's ! The hindus stated that *the lowest is
the highest*. And Jesus - during his 4th initiation - washed the disciples feets. He under-stood them !
We can call it *clear understanding*. Just as the violet flame is the flame
of transmutation, the flame of understanding is colourless ! The flame of colourless crystallization, the flame of understanding, of illumination,
is the revaler of our vision of birth, our mission in these spesific incarnation. What is *crystal clear* for you ?
When these manifests, crystallizes, the sea of relativity is not so scaring
anymore. The confusion are beeing replaced by understanding and Faith absolute. The symptoms of stigmata I experienced few months ago, coincides
amazingly with our everyday language. The pain in my feets, like bolts penetrating boths feets, relates to the Earth-Star beneath our feets. To
under-stand is to unify our manas chakra with the Earth Star in order to ground, manifest, crystallize our mission of birth.
Hail to Serapis Bey ! He who was Pythagoras incarnated. Hail to the Chohan
of these 4th Ray of two opposite poles in colourless balance !
Blessings from Norway Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:27:43 -0400
From: "Rick Puravs" To: "Dharma"
Cc: Subject: Re: warning: negative vibes
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message----- >From: Dharma
>Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 2:17 AM >Subject: Re: warning: negative vibes
>I've been all the way down - breakdown in July - and I'm back into the >light but still healing. That's why I have a new name for my new life; it
>reminds me that I'm no longer what I was.
>As Gautama said, the light within you will show you the truth. >Don't trust in anything else, not scriptures, not gurus. Trust in your own
>light.
(Rick...) Hi Dharma......glad to see you are back and are healing....you always were in the light you know....you always were the light....you just may have had your attention elsewhere.....so now i take it your attention is back on the light......
sometimes though we see our light in the scriptures or in others.....a guru is someone who can make your attention and the light be one.....we can see our
light in a guru and it is brighter than we imagined it to be......teachers are cool too....they can point out the light to us.....but sometimes their finger gets in the way
>For a little while, the naive woman I was last winter forgot my inward
>guidance.
(Rick) I remember when you (Ann Morrison Fisher) first came on the list.....it was around last Christmas......and like many newcomers to the list (and some who
have been around for a while) you were soon writing posts on just about every thread on the list.......actually most of what you had to say was worthwhile so i would not be down on your self of Christmas past......i have been appreciative
of the astrological and other stuff you sent me......and you have always struck me as a genuine and spiritual person
>She put her trust in a young guru who said they were one spirit >in two bodies, meant to come together again. She became his lover, then
>his "spiritual wife," then his student. Danijel began to ask for complete >devotion and surrender, said it was necessary to work with her as a guru.
(Rick)
Well yes......it was when you (Ann Morrison Fisher) proclaimed on the list that you had accepted Danijel as your guru that i began to think you were a bit flakey
......but don't feel bad......certainly me, probably most of us here, are a bit flakey .......certainly after watching all the flame wars here (in which i gladly take part at times...heehee) i wouldn't have thought that Danijel was even significantly
more advanced than you......ok, sure he has some knowledge and experience and stuff to teach others, but so do you......guru is a big word for Danijel ....maybe later
>She didn't understand that meant surrendering even her unconscious to his >direction. He said he was her spiritual guru too, working with her in her
>K. meditations, and she believed it. When she was completely under his >sway, he withdrew from her and began a pattern of consistent and vicious
>verbal emotional and mental abuse. Finally she collapsed under constant >battering, and the personality went into a break-down; he went off to India
>to see his guru, Sai Baba.
(Rick) I really enjoyed Danijel's account of his trip to India to see Sai Baba....maybe
there's something to this Sai Baba dude after all.....after reading your account of your experiences with Danijel, it seems almost like Sai Baba was able to
serve as a perfect mirror for Danijel
>The way back was made easier by the realization that the true spiritual >guru had always been within and still was; he was never Danijel. Angelique
>sent love and healing; she repaired a frayed power chakra and told me how >to fry the cords to Danijel and reclaim my power.
(Rick)
I have several Guru's....Shri Anandi Ma, Roy Eugene Davis, Karunamayi, Vajrayogini.......the true Guru that is within can work through my outer Guru's because my outer Guru's have released their ego attachments to the point
that the Guru within can work through them.....which is easier than working through me, as i still have a bunch of ego attachments.......and since there is
only one true Guru, there is no limit to how many outer Guru's i can have....all the people in the world.....heehee
>Some problems puzzled
>me; Angelique found they were the result of booby traps planted in my mind >by hypnotic suggestion. She used the same power for good and told my
>internal guide to remove all suggestions. He found so many that he has >been removing them gradually, and the process is still going on.
(Rick)
Yes, the process is still going on with me too. The past month or two i've been going through various physical symptoms......this after going a year without much of that kind of stuff after getting Shaktipat in August,1997......guess it's
finally burning some of the crap that's been laying around for a while......like to get rid of this stuff so if anybody out there can increase the current a notch
or two....feel free to Shakti zap me (thanks)
>Danijel is just too young and inexperienced and has too many problems of >his own to function as a guru. I ask all list members to send him K-fired
>love; he needs it.
(Rick) Sure, why not....Shaktizap Danijel too
>Tomorrow morning I leave to visit Angelique. Intuition tells her that
>realization is coming at a retreat next weekend, and I want to be there. >Now it turns out there'll be a ritual, and she will play Persephone -
>carried off by Death himself. She's preparing to die. But there's life >after death - Persephone returns to the earth.
(Rick)
Persephone and me go way back
>I'll carry you in my heart. You are greatly loved; you are surrounded by >love. Wherever you go, you don't go alone. Reach out for love, healing,
>joy, peace - they're all there for you. >
>Sharing my peace, >Dharma
(Rick)
Hey Ann......want to see a real Guru.......Karunamayi will be in Texas in November.....and in San Antonio from Nov 5th through 11th..... check out http://www.globeworks.com/karunamayi/devi/
for the schedule, and go and get her blessing
Sometimes people imagine they are going through initiation after initiation, and achieving level after level.......but it is all in their own minds.......i don't want to do
that.....i have business to take care of......Bodhisattva business......so i dedicate any advancement i may achieve and any merit i may accumulate to helping all
others achieve enlightenment......Shaktizap me real good because i don't want to be living in no illusion......i'll be working on it at my own end :)
Mudita (boundless delight in the attainment of others), Rick
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:18:22 PDT From: ""
To: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Regarding Petty Bickering Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
* It's a good thing that I was born a woman, or I'd have been adrag queen *
I'm a woman, trapped in a man's body; but I'm also a lesbian, so it works out O.K. - Alan Gaskins
:-) "All we are saying, is give peace a chance..." - J. Lennon
Everything is relative to the mind, including the mind itself... enLIGHTEN up everybody! - Redhawk
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:43:40 PDT
From: "" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, morlightATnospammhonline.net
Subject: Re: Warning-Positive Vibes Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
>Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 18:21:40 +0000 >From: Maureen Heffernan
>Reply-To: morlightATnospammhonline.net >To: Kundalini
>Subject: Warning-Positive Vibes >
>Beloved, >
>May the Lord's Peace,Joy and Love and Power be with you. >
>Amen Amen Amen >
> "Beloved, I wish above all things that you prosper and be in
health, even as thy soul prospers..."
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:59:36 -0700
From: "fuzzy" To:
Subject: unsubscribe please Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B2_01BDD604.92E90580"
I have too many e mails for my server to handle at
this point, so need to wait until they upgrade the system to subscribe again. Thank you so very much!!!
Sunshine
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:15:11 +0200 From: Danijel Turina
To: "Sharon Webb" , Subject: Re: Energy problems
Message-Id:
At 11:19 1998.09.01 -0400, Sharon Webb wrote:
>Hi,
Hi Sharon! :)
>I tried using affirmations and hypnosis to remind myself to stay open to my >source.
I had a lousy experience with hypnosis and K - it seems to form new
samskaras and limits the flow, so my K blasts the suggestions out immediately. It is better to just remember - find something that reminds
you of God more than anything, and when you remember that, you will _be_ open to the source, instead of trying to be. :)
>Last week, my energy was pretty high...until late Friday. My daughter was
>scheduled for surgery on Monday morning. Saturday and Sunday I felt more >and more drained...and by Monday (you guessed it) I could barely get around.
>I realized then that I was repeating a pattern. I consciously began to >replenish my energy and by Monday night I was much better.
How about this... connect to God, feel the connection, closeness, love,
power, be there... and instead of cutting yourself off to be with those who need help, bring them up with you, to the source... so you really don't
need to give or mediate the energy, you just have to provide a reminder. I think that the problem is when you think that you can't be connected to
God and act in the world in the same time - actually it is the other way round, you can't act properly if _not_ connected to God. Sometimes there is
an attitude like "God won't help him so I have to"... I find it pretty amusing, I had such ideas at some points; helping people isn't the point,
nobody can intelectually know what will help someone. The important thing is to align yourself with your inmost nature, and act from that
consciousness. Every such action is perfect. :)
-----
E-mail : dturinaATnospamgeocities.com Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 09:58:44 +0200 From: Danijel Turina
To: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com, fredaann2ATnospamjuno.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, annfisherATnospamstic.net, splackoATnospamkr.tel.hr,
mpapecATnospamjagor.srce.hr, dklepacATnospamjagor.srce.hr Subject: Re: warning: negative vibes
Message-Id:
At 10:11 1998.09.01 EDT, ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 9/1/98 8:02:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >dturinaATnospamhempseed.com writes to freda:
> >< MY hostility? ;))) Oh most kind, understanding, non-hostile, gentle
friend, > please forgive me, but you are talking about yourself...
> >
>I feel as if I'm in a maze of mirrors here! aggggghhhhhhhh
:) What people say about you tells an awful lot about themselves. :)
>Who cares what the mirror says or looks like? It is a distorted view. How >does one see the correct True Perception?
You turn on the CNN. ;)))
-----
E-mail : dturinaATnospamgeocities.com Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 04:02:12 +0200 From: raptor
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Regarding Petty Bickering
Message-Id:
At 09:07 AM 9/1/98 PDT, Pure Heart wrote:
>I don't know what my esteemed list-mates are going through,
>but Shakti has been restructuring my left lower heart valve over >the last few days, and has been modifying my brain stem too.
> >I've been told to avoid conflict (even to the level of
>'giving up Star Trek on TV - can you believe that) ?
Ohmgawd,,... nooo.. not Star Trek.. noooooooo.... :))))))))))))))))
____/(______/|____/\_______)\____________ \vr!\_ . \ . | . > _> .\_ . \ No sounds, no silence. No truth, no lies./
`~~~|_,___Y\__/|_,_ Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Energy problems Message-Id:
You wrote:
> >How about this... connect to God, feel the connection...
>I think that the problem is when you think that you can't be connected to
>God and act in the world in the same time - actually it is the other way
>round, you can't act properly if _not_ connected to God. Sometimes there is
>an attitude like "God won't help him so I have to"... The important thing
>is to align yourself with your inmost nature, and act from that >consciousness. Every such action is perfect.
This is great! Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the quickest
way to feel connected to God is to simply be present in my body, be aware of my existence, experience the "I AM." How clever of God to
design us this way! I think it was Charles Tart who wrote that it is easy to find the awakened state, what is hard is remembering that we're
lost. Holly Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:38:07 +0000
From: pawanATnospammilcse.cig.mot.com (Pawan Mathur) To: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.),
Danijel Turina , kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: unsubscribe Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
unsubscribe
On Sep 2, 8:25, Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote: > Subject: Re: Energy problems
You wrote: >
>How about this... connect to God, feel the connection... >I think that the problem is when you think that you can't be connected
to >God and act in the world in the same time - actually it is the other
way >round, you can't act properly if _not_ connected to God. Sometimes
there is >an attitude like "God won't help him so I have to"... The important
thing >is to align yourself with your inmost nature, and act from that
>consciousness. Every such action is perfect.
This is great! Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the quickest way to feel connected to God is to simply be present in my body, be
aware of my existence, experience the "I AM." How clever of God to design us this way! I think it was Charles Tart who wrote that it is
easy to find the awakened state, what is hard is remembering that we're lost. Holly
>-- End of excerpt from Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:30:50 -0700 From: Dan Margolis
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID:
Later...
Dan M. Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:52:31 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" To:
Subject: thanks Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks to everyone who gave me input on my energy problem. And thanks for the nice words to those who visited my web site.
Love,
Sharon shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
Seven new Fractal Java applets were added to this page on Aug. 29, 1998
Fractals and 2D and 3D graphics
http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/
Winner of nineteen top web awards. Free screensaver and wallpaper d/l.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:31:25 +0200 From: raptor
To: "Sharon Webb" , Subject: Re: thanks
Message-Id:
At 12:52 PM 9/2/98 -0400, Sharon Webb wrote:
>Thanks to everyone who gave me input on my energy problem. >And thanks for the nice words to those who visited my web site.
Oh yes, I never said anything about your site. I love it! :) The pictures are beautiful, in fact so beautiful that I am using one as my wallpaper
right now, and I am vveerry selective about my wallpapers.. ;)) :))
Excellent! :)
____/(______/|____/\_______)\____________ \vr!\_ . \ . | . > _> .\_ . \ No sounds, no silence. No truth, no lies./
`~~~|_,___Y\__/|_,_ To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Hello Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi, I'm new to this list.
My name is Autumn, I'm 25. I've been experiencing kundalini experiences for about 6 months now and have been doing alot of spiritual development
for at least a year now. Although I've been working in these areas for about 7 years.
I'm curious if people talk about their experiences or ask for help in
figuring out what's going on?
I'm an Astarian and the Astara exercises are what have helped me boost my spiritual development.
I hope to share my own experiences and listen to others so that I know
that I'm not going crazy or that I'm not doing things wrong.
Thanks for listening, Autumn
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 2 Sep 98 19:16:00 +0000 From: "Paul"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Remorse
Message-Id:
Hi.
I have a very big chronic problem with remorsefulness and I was wondering if anybody has any advice, tips etc. I have been having a
deeply romantic fling with k just recently and have gotten into a rut. An old mate send me an email yesterday and it totally snapped me out
of the illusions I was under. I've been having pleasurable involvement with K and taking pleasure in the way it was feeling. But that is
deceptive and I got lost. Still am a bit.
The main problem is that no matter how the furniture is arranged the room is always dark. I get remorseful about everything all the time. I
have never known a person to die that I have known but even so I am remorseful. If you could imagine a person sitting in a chair huddled
up tinkering with something in their hand, kind of in a trance almost staring into empty space, and the person suddenly drops the thing they
were fiddling with and there is an immediate sadness. That is how I am. If I drop anything or if anything goes wrong I am unhappy. I have
only just noticed also that I plan absolutely everything and I have no idea how to be spontaneous.
I had an episode of being kind to myself just recently. But it wasn't
entirely real because it was kindness not love. I absorbed into it and took pleasure in it. It was attractive. But I noticed that somehow it
still wasn't right. I have always been remorseful, totally pessimistic. Unless I fight with it every moment of the day it comes
to haunt me. I cannot simply relax without it growing. In the remorse there is a lot of attatchment, posession, guilt and grief. I have
always been like this, down in the mouth. Very difficult to lighten up. People in school used to say to me "cheer up, it might never
happen" or "who died?". I never thought that was funny but I did probably look a bit down.
Maybe ultimately it is to do with self-love. It's such a challenge
though and I have seen it (sometimes) preventing me from doing a lot of things. All the various characteristics of my personality seem to
hang around this remorsefulness. I can't let go of things. I was the one to swim in the shallow end of the pool, in case I needed the
floor. I procrastinate every day dreaming about the way things might have been or how they might be, sleeping. People react to this in
different ways. Some yell and some are sympathetic. Some say it's my own fault and some say it isn't. Some say I want it and some say I
don't. But it's all true, or so it seems.
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:03:45 -0400 From: "Kat"
To: "Autumn Sheffield" , Subject: Re: Hello
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Autumn,
So we meet again! Bet ya not surprised to find me here! :-)
>I'm curious if people talk about their experiences or ask for help in >figuring out what's going on?
You will find the people here very friendly and very helpful!
>I hope to share my own experiences and listen to others so that I know >that I'm not going crazy or that I'm not doing things wrong.
First thing you will learn as you read through the messages here is that
many of us had this fear when the Kundalini does her thing! When you are unprepared for it and it begins to happen it can really shake you up but
don''t worry the people here will help you to feel much better about everything that you are going through. I am looking forward to hearing
about your expriences.
Oh one piece of advice about the email here that you will find different. When you want to reply in private just press reply but if you want your
message to make it to this list as well you have to press reply all. I really screwed up on that one when I got here at first and was doing most of
my replies in private. In some cases those that want to help you will prefer it that way. .....any how back to lurking!!....yea right like I can
sit back and not post for more then a week!
In L&L & Understanding,
Katharine
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