1998/08/24 23:34
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #589
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 589
Today's Topics:
Re: More talk about the swirling fun [ mollyrATnospamibm.net ]
Re: Hello! [ "Pure Heart" <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.co ]
Re: Careful What You Ask for... [ "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.c ]
The dogmatic stance of Mary L. Riley [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Re: The dogmatic stance of Mary L. R [ mollyrATnospamibm.net ]
Re: The dogmatic stance of Mary L. R [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Question of Purity [ geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com ]
Re: Heat and crown chakra sensations [ mollyrATnospamibm.net ]
Re: Question of Purity [ mollyrATnospamibm.net ]
Re: owwwwwwwie! [ F19AshATnospamaol.com ]
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:35:24 +0800
From: mollyrATnospamibm.net
To: Pure Heart <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
Message-ID: <35E222EB.2DF1B4E8ATnospamibm.net>
Obedience has to be experieced to be believed. In many cases, perhaps in
all cases, it is a subtle way of changing the environment. Many people
can't be ordered to change -- just look at other respondents to my comments
to see good examples of people resistant to ideas.
Change, personal and planetary, occurs gently for the most part. When I
"play along" with someone, I change that someone, at least a little bit. If
I do it out of goodwill, the change will be for the better. If everyone did
it, the world would change. Each little bit is equally insiginificant and
equally important. Influence occurs by interaction. You are influencing
me. But sustained interaction creates greater influence while rejection
creates less. It's just that change occurs from the inside out.
So it boils down to making this earth a better place by using the gentle
persuasion of obedience to clarify one's own intentions.
M
Pure Heart wrote:
> I had someone on this list give me a gentle jab by calling me
> 'master kevin' -)
>
> Well, I'll risk that title, (in jest) if I must to speak my
> mind -- I just want to share some of the pot holes I've
> encountered in my very rocky spiritual path.
>
> #1 - I'm pretty dubious about this 'obedience to a tainted source'
> thing myself. I mean, come on, there's no race here - we will never
> 'move on' until we can make the present day a paradise, without
> help from anyone whatsoever -- here and now is divine, its the
> only moment we will ever have as a human.
>
> #2 - Like everything else the human ego has an important function,
> number 1 of which is to prevent us from being a lump of unambulatory
> jelly. I'd further add, that the ego allows for us to focus on
> one small thing at a time, so that maybe we can learn from it, rather
> than being overwhelmed by 'the all'. The ego needs to be lean
> and pure, and to work in concert with the other forces and players.
>
> -Kevin
>
> >From kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com Mon Aug 24 16:18:24 1998
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> >Message-ID: <030c01bdcfb0$3f061980$82d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
> >From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
> >To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
> >Subject: Re: More talk about the swirling funnel.
> >Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:40:49 -0400
> >
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> >Mary L. Riley wrote:
> >>>The irony is that people need to purify their ability to be obedient
> in
> >order to get beyond their own egos. Thus in order to do this it is
> >essential to practice doing what one is told.>>
> >
> >Excuse me, but I'm having trouble with this line. Isn't this the same
> line
> >the Nazi war criminals used to justify their actions?
> >
> >I'm also not completely sure that egos are something to "get beyond" as
> if
> >they were excess baggage. We _did_ come into this world equipped with
> them.
> >Are they the spiritual equivalent of the vermiform appendix?
> >
> >>>At the same time those doing
> >the telling may not be worthy, or may be worthy only for a while.
> >
> >And yet with blind obedience, who will develop the discrimination to
> discern
> >who may or may not be worthy?
> >
> >>>Awareness of what is going on is, I believe, the only way out.
> Refusing
> >to
> >do anything because someone else tells me to do it will stunt out
> growth
> >(individually and planetarily).
> >
> >Doesn't that have a great deal to do with who or what is doing the
> telling?
> >If I were a kid brought up as a racist, for example, would I be
> well-advised
> >to listen to my elders? Or would I be better advised to look inside
> and
> >find my own answers?
> >
> >>>One of the very great paradoxes of living. The business of obedience
> is
> >needed for spiritual reasons, much more than
> >for practical reasons.
> >
> >Obedience to what? To whom? To what spiritual end?
> >
> >Curiously yours,
> >
> >Sharon
> >shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
> >
> > Fractals and 2D and 3D graphics
> > http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/
> >
> > Winner of nineteen top web awards.
> > Free screensaver and wallpaper d/l.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:54:57 PDT
From: "Pure Heart" <pure_heartATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, hjackson2ATnospamhotmail.com
Subject: Re: Hello!
Message-ID: <19980825025459.7795.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
If you are really awakening in an uneven manner, then most forms
of meditation or 'will based corrections' could be harmful.
A top notch healer could help you whether its kundalini, or just
the screaming woodies. Such healers are rare.
In any case, surrender is different for every person. Inside of
yourself you know what surrender means, and probably know of at least
one head trip you are playing on yourself that is stressing you
out, and is causing a deformation in the flow pattern (of the normal
pranas or kundalini charged prana).
Cut yourself a break. Forgive yourself something. Worry a little less.
If you are fixated on something in particular, unfixate.
I know it sounds trite, but 'trusting the process' is helpful.
Believe it or not, that's all I'd recommend for now. Try those
things sincerely, and you'll be a different person.
If that doesn't help your symptoms, let us know -)
Kevin
>From kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com Mon Aug 24 18:34:07 1998
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>From: "Hudson Jackson II" <hjackson2ATnospamhotmail.com>
>To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
>Subject: Hello!
>
>Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:33:43 PDT
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>
>
>Hello, folks! I just want to introduce myself briefly.
>
>I'm Hudson, and I'm working toward a degree in Information Systems
right
>now, and at one time I had this interest in Kundalini whose pattern
>follows that of a roller coaster.
>
>Anyways, I may have had experiences resulting from it - I'm not really
>expert at knowing this stuff for sure, even though I've read plenty
>about it. When I was a kid I had heard music inside, without
practicing
>any meditation or yoga. It was totally natural to me. Didn't think
>much about back then.
>
>About a few years ago I figured I could figure out what would happen in
>the future through the use of automatic writing. It didn't work out,
>because the information I got was 99.9% lies. However, a short time
>after I was able to hear messages as well as music. The bad thing
about
>that was that I had to spend a couple of months in the hospital.
>
>I was in therapy afterward up until mid '97 - the doctors were looking
>at a mental disturbance diagnosis, yet the medicine they prescribed did
>nothing. And above that, I suspect the doctors were rationalists to
the
>point where I felt that they would have been happy if I just resign to
>being an atheist.
>
>There were some interesting things happening to me, though, like in
1995
>when I was diagnosed with diabetes (I had too much weight on, probably
>because of the doctors' choice of medicine), but the moment I was on
>insulin, I somehow had the willpower again to not eat so much. Then I
>felt like I could eat anything I wanted to, and I still lost weight.
In
>April '96 my stomach started churning every morning when I was about to
>get ready for work - and it's been doing that almost every weekday
>since. However, insulin dependency went down and by last year, I had
no
>need for it. I'm a little overweight, but hey - I'm still healthy.
>
>On top of that, I've grown increasingly tired every morning - and it
>shows through the number of yawns I have to take. The only exception
to
>this was when I was on a business trip in Hawai`i - there on one night
I
>had about 4 hours of sleep and could still move energetically around
the
>next morning at 5:00 am. Not even 9 hours of sleep here on the East
>Coast has that effect (this was before and after the trip - the day
>after I came home, it started all over again). There are also times
>when I yawn that it feels like there's either pinching or massaging
>going on in my head - it's like someone's working on my brain or
>something.
>
>There are also many times when either my head or entire body feel like
I
>could have a fever, and yet my body temperature is absolutely normal.
>
>Finally, each night for the past 21 months I go to bed and then I get
>this weird sensation - and I don't feel comfortable describing it in
>much detail at all in front of everyone. But anyway, one part of my
>body is always affected, and I have very little control over it at this
>time, no matter what I do to stop it.
>
>I know a couple of things mentioned are signs of a Kundalini awakening,
>but I don't know about the others. I'd rather not make a judgement
call
>just yet.
>
>I'd like to know about this so-called phenomenon, but for now I'd like
>to figure out how to stop the stomach churning and decrease the morning
>fatigue and get back some of the control of my body that I lost. Two
>questions: how does one "submit" or "surrender" to the Kundalini - I
>can't really picture this in my mind yet. And also, are there
exercises
>which are suitable for a very busy person, especially one who has
little
>privacy. . . the ones in "The Five Tibetans" don't seem to fit into my
>schedule these days.
>
>(I remember the days when this list was up back in '95, by the way - I
>bailed out before they took it down for a while only because I had many
>commitments to deal with. Just a footnote.)
>
>Well, any hints, comments, etc. are appreciated. Thanks!
>
>-Hudson
>
>
>______________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: 25 Aug 98 04:00:38 +0000
From: "Paul" <paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Careful What You Ask for...
Message-Id: <OUT-35E236E6.MD-1.0.paulwestATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> Little did I know that lurking and listening to my thoughts were the
> wish granters. "Oh, so she wants to lose weight, does she? We'll take
> care of that right now."
>
> Presto! I developed lower abdominal cramps, diarrhea, a fever and had to
> stay in bed today. But, hey, bet I lost some weight. [fun!]
Maybe the thoughts which entered your head were in a sense intuitions
or simple observations of the processes that had already begun long
before you started asking to lose the weight. You may only have asked
the question at a certain point but possibly thoughts aren't really
yours anyway. Thought is so subject to control that it is almost
totally beyond control so perhaps the thoughts rising were a
reflection of a state of things happening in your consciousness.
Symptoms, if you like.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:39:08 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: The dogmatic stance of Mary L. Riley
Message-ID: <00fc01bdcfd9$eb459260$82d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mary L. Riley wrote:
>>Many people
can't be ordered to change -- just look at other respondents to my comments
to see good examples of people resistant to ideas.>>
A cheap and transparent trick, Mary L. When people question your statements
and fail to embrace them, you say this is an example of their resistance to
ideas. Did it occur to you that perhaps it is more an example of people's
resistance to unquestioned, pre-digested and regurgitated dogma?
"Many people can't be ordered to change...," you say. Imagine that! How
uncooperative of them.
If this unquestioning obedience works for you, then that's fine. Enjoy.
But I have to wonder why it is that you seem to have such a marked desire to
order other people to change?
>>When I
"play along" with someone, I change that someone, at least a little bit. If
I do it out of goodwill, the change will be for the better. If everyone did
it, the world would change.>>
Why this desire to change people, Mary? Why this desire for control? Does
it make you feel more secure?
>>So it boils down to making this earth a better place by using the gentle
persuasion of obedience to clarify one's own intentions.>>
Back to my original, and as yet, unanswered question:
Obedience to what? To whom?
Is this obedience to be to the masters, gurus, saints, and gods of Mary L.
Riley, as identified by Mary L. Riley? Or should we take the ultimate leap
of faith and simply obey Mary L. Riley herself?
:-)
Sharon
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:46:56 +0800
From: mollyrATnospamibm.net
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: The dogmatic stance of Mary L. Riley
Message-ID: <35E233B0.C95E22A2ATnospamibm.net>
This message is too hostile for reply. The answers lie inside yourself.
M
Sharon Webb wrote:
> Mary L. Riley wrote:
>
> >>Many people
> can't be ordered to change -- just look at other respondents to my comments
> to see good examples of people resistant to ideas.>>
>
> A cheap and transparent trick, Mary L. When people question your statements
> and fail to embrace them, you say this is an example of their resistance to
> ideas. Did it occur to you that perhaps it is more an example of people's
> resistance to unquestioned, pre-digested and regurgitated dogma?
>
> "Many people can't be ordered to change...," you say. Imagine that! How
> uncooperative of them.
>
> If this unquestioning obedience works for you, then that's fine. Enjoy.
> But I have to wonder why it is that you seem to have such a marked desire to
> order other people to change?
>
> >>When I
> "play along" with someone, I change that someone, at least a little bit. If
> I do it out of goodwill, the change will be for the better. If everyone did
> it, the world would change.>>
>
> Why this desire to change people, Mary? Why this desire for control? Does
> it make you feel more secure?
>
> >>So it boils down to making this earth a better place by using the gentle
> persuasion of obedience to clarify one's own intentions.>>
>
> Back to my original, and as yet, unanswered question:
>
> Obedience to what? To whom?
>
> Is this obedience to be to the masters, gurus, saints, and gods of Mary L.
> Riley, as identified by Mary L. Riley? Or should we take the ultimate leap
> of faith and simply obey Mary L. Riley herself?
>
> :-)
>
> Sharon
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:56:59 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <mollyrATnospamibm.net>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: The dogmatic stance of Mary L. Riley
Message-ID: <012d01bdcfdc$69b3fcc0$82d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mary L. Riley wrote:
>This message is too hostile for reply. The answers lie inside yourself.
Exactly, Mary L. You've made my point.
Sharon
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:50:48 -0700
From: geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Question of Purity
Message-ID: <19980824.235050.3662.0.Geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com>
>I sorta snickered at this one:
>> In Buddhism you have "arrived" when you become a buddha.
>
>It's not very easy to become a buddha. It is only in the imagination
that =
=20
>this goal is limiting.
>Would you mind explaining what you meant by "over half the journey is a
=
=20
>question of purity"?
>
>Thanks,
> -Kyira
According to the instructor at a Vipassana class, there were over
100,00 buddhas in India at the time of the Buddha. I doubt that either
Christ or Buddha would live up to his reputation. If your consciousness
penetrates to the level of the "kalapas"(the smallest particles that go
in and out of existences of which all things are made)thus, freeing your
trapped consciousness, and your consciousness is always on the buddhic
plane or higher, you are a buddha. Yes, their are a few levels or stages
beyond this, but it is more limited than some systems. Buddha himself
probably far surpassed his own system. That is all Bailey is to me, a
system, a guide to give me an idea what is next.
All we are is an interference pattern. Thoughts, emotions, food
etc. increase our resistance. When doing Vipassana meditation, you can
feel "blind spots" (unintegrated consciousness) which come about from
the traumas of life. They give us a substitute self.. If a person is
free of these, k will rise naturally. It is when the body has
"blockages" in its energy field that problems arise. There continues to
be a purification of the spiritual bodies beyond this as you lose sense
of self and you become immune to praise or criticism. Personal desires
and sense of time fall away("space cadet").
By saying "over half of the journey is a question of purity" , I
mean most of the work is to remove the "impure" thought-forms from our
energy field. The purified will is also important. I think this is
overlooked at Vipassana. Buddha sat under a tree and said to himself
that he would stay there until he achieved enlightenment. That is a
pretty focused will. In the Bailey material, the 4th and higher
initiations are all willed. If you will them and your not ready, it
won't work. But you could also be ready and plateau. There is a higher
will that works through the person, it is not the personal will. It
seems like the choice is made for you about how far you will go this
lifetime. At first this will can be overriden by the personality, later
it can't.
I was suprised by the amount of discussion over Bailey and that no
one mentioned the Taoist practices of semen retention and such. Debating
books is only slightly better than debating definitions of terms, it is
experiences that bring meaningful change.
Blessings to all,
Geoffrey
_____
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:01:31 +0800
From: mollyrATnospamibm.net
To: Evelyn Niedbalec <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Heat and crown chakra sensations
Message-ID: <35E2452B.D1CD38F5ATnospamibm.net>
I get hot, possibly for different reasons. The feeling of something oily
coming out the ears is more difficult to explain.
But does anyone else get heat/pain/inflammation in the feet?
M
Evelyn Niedbalec wrote:
> I often feel coolness or wetness, tingling, poking, and/or pressure in
> the crown region on and off through the day.
>
> I while ago, I had a dream that I was sitting on a chair and the base of
> my spine started getting REALLY hot. I ignored it for a while but then
> thought I might be sitting on a hot coal and get burned so I got up and
> looked at the chair. A flame suddenly started burning from within the
> chair so I took it outside. Then I woke up a little and could still
> feel some residual warmth. Next time, maybe I will remember to stay on
> the chair and let it continue as it didn't actually hurt, just very
> intense.
>
> I also tend to wake up about 2AM just broiling hot. After about 10
> minutes, I cool down again and go back to sleep. Also noticed the
> broiling phenomena right after returning from longer OBEs.
> -Evelyn
>
> >
> >I have been experiencing many changes...most interestingly, the feeling
> on the top of my head (crown chackra area) that water is dripping on my
> head...i feel for it, it feels so real...i can't believe it isn't
> actually wet!!! i also look in the mirror to check also...this feeling
> usually comes when i am doing 'healings"...pranic/reiki, whatever you
> like to call it. :o) when i am having the deep feelings of unconditional
> love and compassion...i am wondering if this an 'annointing' and if
> anybody else has felt this particular sign...also..i had an experience
> at night, dreamlike but real...that fire was ripping through my body..up
> the chackras...husband says i get really really hot at night at
> times...i feel this also when awake...feels good, an inner warmth,
> burning...not uncomfortable...any responses will be appreciated and
> welcome...
> >
> >
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:13:30 +0800
From: mollyrATnospamibm.net
To: geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Question of Purity
Message-ID: <35E247FA.8A20A9E8ATnospamibm.net>
Thank you for a very well phrased and complete answer.
I wonder, however, what sort of vipassana you learned. The one I learned is
a purifying instrument. It satisfies the needs of anyone unwilling to take a
guide for help, in that is is a natural process of clearing by one's own
efforts. If practiced intensively, that is. But I never practiced vipassana
in the US so I have no idea where your views on vipassana come from. Mine
only come from practice, no authority.
M
geoffrey33ATnospamjuno.com wrote:
> >I sorta snickered at this one:
> >> In Buddhism you have "arrived" when you become a buddha.
> >
> >It's not very easy to become a buddha. It is only in the imagination
> that =
> =20
> >this goal is limiting.
>
> >Would you mind explaining what you meant by "over half the journey is a
> =
> =20
> >question of purity"?
> >
> >Thanks,
> > -Kyira
>
> According to the instructor at a Vipassana class, there were over
> 100,00 buddhas in India at the time of the Buddha. I doubt that either
> Christ or Buddha would live up to his reputation. If your consciousness
> penetrates to the level of the "kalapas"(the smallest particles that go
> in and out of existences of which all things are made)thus, freeing your
> trapped consciousness, and your consciousness is always on the buddhic
> plane or higher, you are a buddha. Yes, their are a few levels or stages
> beyond this, but it is more limited than some systems. Buddha himself
> probably far surpassed his own system. That is all Bailey is to me, a
> system, a guide to give me an idea what is next.
>
> All we are is an interference pattern. Thoughts, emotions, food
> etc. increase our resistance. When doing Vipassana meditation, you can
> feel "blind spots" (unintegrated consciousness) which come about from
> the traumas of life. They give us a substitute self.. If a person is
> free of these, k will rise naturally. It is when the body has
> "blockages" in its energy field that problems arise. There continues to
> be a purification of the spiritual bodies beyond this as you lose sense
> of self and you become immune to praise or criticism. Personal desires
> and sense of time fall away("space cadet").
>
> By saying "over half of the journey is a question of purity" , I
> mean most of the work is to remove the "impure" thought-forms from our
> energy field. The purified will is also important. I think this is
> overlooked at Vipassana. Buddha sat under a tree and said to himself
> that he would stay there until he achieved enlightenment. That is a
> pretty focused will. In the Bailey material, the 4th and higher
> initiations are all willed. If you will them and your not ready, it
> won't work. But you could also be ready and plateau. There is a higher
> will that works through the person, it is not the personal will. It
> seems like the choice is made for you about how far you will go this
> lifetime. At first this will can be overriden by the personality, later
> it can't.
>
> I was suprised by the amount of discussion over Bailey and that no
> one mentioned the Taoist practices of semen retention and such. Debating
> books is only slightly better than debating definitions of terms, it is
> experiences that bring meaningful change.
>
> Blessings to all,
>
> Geoffrey
>
> _____
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:19:57 EDT
From: F19AshATnospamaol.com
To: MoonrisempATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: owwwwwwwie!
Message-ID: <c4798ffb.35e2578fATnospamaol.com>
the right one..banged my left knee tho...all bruised....thanx for healing
energy!! it is getting better already!!...(i think it has to do with all the
wonderful responses i got one here) THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!
Emily (M)
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