1998/08/16 12:46
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #570
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 570
Today's Topics:
Re: Fear (Kristen) [ "carrea" <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca> ]
Shaivism 4 [ hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT) ]
Re: Fear (Kristen) [ nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net> ]
Address and Info on Monroe Inst. [ "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotma ]
new and happy!!!! [ jane <bigeyesATnospammindspring.com> ]
Re: Fear (Kristen) [ WEIVODAATnospamaol.com ]
Re: Fear (Kristen) [ WEIVODAATnospamaol.com ]
Re: Introduction from evelyn [ "guy johnson" <tantriciskATnospamhotmail.c ]
Re: Fear (Kristen) [ "carrea" <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca> ]
Re: Fear (Kristen) [ jane <bigeyesATnospammindspring.com> ]
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 13:46:37 -0400
From: "carrea" <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca>
To: <WEIVODAATnospamaol.com>, <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Fear (Kristen)
Message-ID: <01bdc93d$d172ed80$ac00fdcfATnospamvlogidyu>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Another point of view on the same thing.
Forget the time, (forget the chronometer in the race)
Feel/(sink in) the moment, (feel the blade of the sky as you race cut the
icy snow one flake at the time).
Two different ways to motivate oneself to do something.
A question....
Does your kneew need motivation or attention to heal?
>I absolutely love skiing. I love it more than anything, everything about it
I
>love. The fear, the adrenaline, the challenge, I love it all. Skiing makes
me
>feel everything I always wanted, a freedom, an empowerment, what ever I
need I
>always can find it in my skiing. I have been thinking more about how it
makes
>me feel, and how my body feels right before race, and right before I hear
>racer ready, all those feelings I have been trying to focus on, but it gets
>hard though with everything else. I keep trying, I don't want to give up,
or
>give in,
Could you feel the same way serving tea? or simply walking in the street? or
breathing?
Why wait to be on skys to all in the moment?
>Very true..good point. Strange thing though, I don't find out for a month
if I
>can even ski, but I am already flipping before I even know my outcome. I
gotta
>stop doing that. I will just see where everything leads I guess.
...
Antoine
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 02:16:42 -0400
From: hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT)
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Shaivism 4
Message-Id: <199808161808.OAA21782ATnospampcnet1.pcnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Namaste, friends and budding Shaivite Yogis.
Returning from spending yesterday with my teacher, and feeling very
'Shaktified', as it were, it seemed appropriate for another post on
Shaivism.
Why go sit with a teacher after initiation?
Why go to the beach to get a tan?
You could just as easily go outside your house and sit in a chair in your
own backyard and get a tan. Sun is just as bright there.
Why go to the beach?
Because the sun is strong, the sand reflective, the ocean vast, the breeze
from the ocean is full of prana, crashing sound of the waves.
Personally. I prefer the trip to the ocean.
So. What topic of Shaivism to write about?
First, Shaivism has 6 divisions within itself. Six different viewpoints
which are debated.
We are studying the Trika system, which is noted by some to be the
'Grandaddy' of Shaivism.
Trika means 3.
Hence, Abhinavagputa's (10th century) expostion, 'The Trident of Wisdom'.
The Trident is:
Shiva all pervading "I" ness
Shakti dynamic expansion and Svatantrya (free will) of Shiva
Nara consciousness in the form of the limited individual experient
It is difficult to decide on a topic, because each section of Shaivism
philosophy hinges on knowledge of the other sections. There is no specific
order of presentation.
It is almost as if one is expected to know and to see the whole of it
before studying it in order to be able to understand the sections.
A real catch 22.
Also, each piece appears to contain the whole philosophy,from that
section's perspective. Sections never conflict.
The whole in each piece. But the whole only from that prospective.
The best illustration of this of course is the laser illuminated hologram.
(you only get this effect from a master, laser illuminated hologram)
You break the hologram into lots of pieces. You can illuminate each piece
with the laser and see the whole image, but only the whole image as viewed
from that perspective.
What does that mean?
Imagine a window and a scene on the other side of the window. The great
outdoors. Cover the window with a blanket. Poke holes in the blanket, all
over the blanket.
Now, you can see the entire view outside through any hole. But, the views
from the holes in the center would be more direct, straight on views of the
scene, as opposed to views from the upper or lower or side edges.
The poor folks who have views from way, way, way, out in the corners,
looking upwards or downwards towards the center of the scene would have
obscure, odd, bizarre viewpoints about the scene based on limited knowledge
obtained from their obscure, odd, bizarre hole locations.
Everyone is correct about the scene according to their own view of it.
It does seem as though a view from center would be more desirable than one
from the way out areas. I guess that's one for debate.
The blanket metaphor is a reasonable mental construct for describing the
'matrix of objectivity'.
The collective perceptions and eperiences of all the individual experients,
knowers, selves, jivas, empirical individuals, whatever you want to call
the contracted points of pure consciousness , make up what might be called
the collective matrix of objectivity, or the manifestation of consciousness
which we call the world, The Self surveying itself, so to speak.
What is called Prakriti (world manifestation of consciousness). is the
dymamic moving Shakti, reflecting on itself, creating a manifestation out
of its own dynamic moving, consciousness or free will. What Shaivism calls
Svantantrya.
Of course, the above mentioned 'matrix' is the narrow view of the Self seen
from our 'narrow' collective viewpoint, if you know what I mean.
There appear to be levels upon levels of subjective experient views of the
objective manifestation of consciousness.
No limit. But hey, would you expect less from the infinite creator?
So it seems it is left to each teacher of Shaivism to figure out how to
present the information so that it is comprehensible to interested
students.
I guess you're stuck with my presentation. (unless you go source the books
yourself, which I encourage you to do so that I will have someone to talk
to about all this. :))) )
When I opened the two books which I am currently studying, what I read
seemed appropriate for today.
The first one is from the Vijnanabhairava- The exposition on 112 Dharanas,
or yogic practices for merging with the Divine.
The second one is from the Shiva Sutras. The translation of this Sutra and
notes are worth taking some time inspecting and studying, and thinking
about. Even meditating on.
Vijnanabhairava:
Dharana 12 VERSE 35
"The medial nadi (1) is situated in the middle. It is as slender as the
stem of a lotus. If one meditates on the inner vacuity of this nadi, it
helps in revealing the Divine (2)
NOTES
1. Nadi here means the 'pranic channel'.
2. Pranasakti exists in Susumna or the medial nadi. If one meditates on
the inner vacuity existing in this medial nadi the prana and apana currents
get dissolved in the Susumna, the udana current becomes active. Thus the
kundalini rises, passes through susumna, and piercing the various centres
of energy (cakras), finally merges in the Sahasrara. There the yogi
experiences spiritual light with which he feels identified. This is what is
meant by saying that the Divine is revealed by the aid of the interior
pranic force residing in the Susumna. The same idea has been expressed in
the following verse of Spandakarika:
"When the moon (apana current of vital energy) and the sun (prana current
of vital energy) get dissolved and the yogi enters the Susumna, the yogi
who is after supernormal powers becomes befuddled like one who is fast
asleep, but the one who is not under such an influence is wide awake and
experiences spiritual Light."
And now, a different topic from the Shiva Sutras:
"Consciousness shines in various external and internal forms (4). There is
no existence of objects apart from consciousness. Therefore, the world is
simply a form of consciousness. Objects are not known by anybody without
consciousness. It is consciousness that has assumed the forms of objects.
It is through consciousness that objects are ascertained. Through the
application of affirmation and negation, there is division of existents
either as postive or negative. The objectivity of existents through
operation of consciousness is only a form of consciousness itself. As
knowldege and the known ie; its objects are apprehended together, therefore
are they (knowledge and its object) one and the same." (5)
NOTES:
4. Consciousness appears in the external form as a jar or blue, etc. and in
its internal form as pleasure, pain, thought, emotion, etc.
5. The world, according to this philosophy, is only a congealed form of
consciousness.
EXPOSITION
The advanced Yogi becomes like Siva. His consciousness is now the
consciousness of Siva. As the world is simply a congealed form of the
consciousness of Siva and as the Yogi's consciousness is the same as that
of Siva, the world in his case also is an unfoldment of his conciousness."
***********
(Siva is used in Shaivism to denote pure, undifferentiated consciousness,
the all pervading "I", the Self, in its grandest aspect.
Luv ya,
Martin
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:44:15 -0600
From: nancy <nancyATnospamwtp.net>
To: WEIVODAATnospamaol.com, kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Fear (Kristen)
Message-ID: <35D72877.5D1C9BDCATnospamwtp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
WEIVODAATnospamaol.com wrote:
> I absolutely love skiing. I love it more than anything, everything about it I
> love. The fear, the adrenaline, the challenge, I love it all. Skiing makes me
> feel everything I always wanted, a freedom, an empowerment, what ever I need I
> always can find it in my skiing.
That's what I thought skiing represented to you. I find the same sense of
satisfaction when I'm working on creative projects--writing, designing, planning
some kick-ass business idea.
But here's what I've discovered. I am not me because of what project I'm working
on, just like you are not you because of your skiing. My creativity, your skiing
is an outlet for us to express who we really are. It's a subtle difference, but
this is so important.
I once had a business that I was very attached to. No matter what happened, I
would never give it up. I had to have some things happen that made it impossible
for me to continue. It was very, very painful to let it go.
I felt like I had literally died. And I had. That part of me that was that
business NEEDED to die. I was not me because of the business. The business was an
expression of my creativity.
So, Kristin, here's my suggestion for you. Ski to your heart's content, but focus
on those wonderful feelings you described above--freedom, empowerment, challenge.
You obviously have the need to express those qualities. Do that through your
skiing.
You are not skiing because you want to be #1. You know that, I know that. You are
skiing because it's an expression of who you are and the love you feel. This is
wonderful. Stay in that place.
I know that some will tell you that you shouldn't have such attachment to skiing.
You should find the same joy in washing dishes. Well, I've never, ever found this
to be true for me. We are human beings with our individual likes and dislikes. I
hate dishes and cleaning. I love writing and computers. You know yourself.
> I have been thinking more about how it makes me feel, and how my body feels
> right before race, and right before I hear racer ready, all those feelings I
> have been trying to focus on, but it gets
> hard though with everything else. I keep trying, I don't want to give up, or
> give in,
Find your balance in spite of what is going on around you. That seems to be what
you've been trying to uncover for yourself through your injury and your friend's
death.
> Strange thing though, I don't find out for a month if I
> can even ski, but I am already flipping before I even know my outcome. I gotta
> stop doing that. I will just see where everything leads I guess.
Don't worry about outcome. Focus on your joy, your passion, your love. The
outcome will be whatever you have decided you want it to be. You have incredibly
strong will. This is a great gift, but can also cause great sorrow. Start
surrendering that will a little and you will find that the divine has all the
details handled. Hard concept to grasp for us willful types. But I'm discovering
that it's so much easier to live this way.
Nancy
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 11:42:26 PDT
From: "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Address and Info on Monroe Inst.
Message-ID: <19980816184227.16161.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I foolishly sent my first post to an individual and not the list. That
person was kind enough to forward my post to the list, thereby making
the attempt to PEM go to the wrong person! (sorry).
For those interested, the Monroe Inst has a web site at www.
Monroe-Inst.com. It was founded by Robert Monroe, who died a few years
back. He began having spontaneous OBEs about 30 years ago and at first
thought he had a brain tumor or something. Having resources available
to him, he eventually founded a company (and wrote 3 books) whose
purpose was to study and teach OBEs and related phenomena. The tapes
they sell aren't going to give you a free ticket to altered states land,
but they do help give you a push in the right direction. Few people
actually have OBEs while listening to the tapes, but a fair amount have
had them after listening to the tapes and then going to sleep. The goal
is to get familiar with various states so that you can eventually reach
them without the tapes.
Sorry to give this massive plug right at the outset of my joining here,
but the Monroe Inst is extremely well known and respected among those
focusing on having OBEs. I have noticed that most of the spiritual
groups seem rather cut off from each other, with different terminology
for the same thing, and little knowledge of each other. On
alt.out-of-body, everyone was pretty clueless what "the vibrations"
were and then I find out that you guys call it prana or kundalini
rising. So sometimes I have the urge to try to make cross connections
between the different groups. If you guys already know this stuff,
please excuse my blathering!
-Evelyn
>
>>Return-Path: <TibetbudATnospamaol.com>
>>From: <TibetbudATnospamaol.com>
>>Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 10:29:19 EDT
>>To: dturinaATnospamhempseed.com
>>Subject: (no subject)
>>
>>hello, evelyn. could you post or send the address of the Monroe
Institute?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>thomas bringhurst
>>
>
>Forwarding again... :)
>
>-----
>E-mail : dturinaATnospamgeocities.com
>Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
>
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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:47:42 -0500
From: jane <bigeyesATnospammindspring.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: new and happy!!!!
Message-Id: <v03020910b1fce7596b3aATnospam[209.86.87.219]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
wow is all i can say right now. i love this list! i'm not even sure how
i found you all but part of me is home. Home, home on the webbbbbb.
OK....sorry. What a poor introduction.
i love what i've been reading the past few days and simply wanted to say
hello. my name is jane and i am thrilled to be here listening, learning,
and delighted to have found you all.
just jane
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:15:24 EDT
From: WEIVODAATnospamaol.com
To: serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Fear (Kristen)
Message-ID: <822e194a.35d72fcdATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 8/16/98 10:38:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com writes:
>Wanting creates experiences of wanting, having creates experiences of
>having.
>Which is the preferable retirement? Going out with style while you are on
>top, (Goddess already provided that for you), remaining number one in
>history coz you retired while you were on top, and so no-one can ever beat
>you.. (count your blessings) or crumbling as you slowly fall down the
>charts, getting older with younger skiers beating you? How do most ski
>racers retire? Thru injury, I bet..
>The expression that comes to mind, is, "Quit while you're ahead."
There's a problem there, I am not ready to quit, and I don't feel I am ahead
yet. I was going to the Olympics before my knee this year. So I am not
quitting until I try and get to were I was. Until then I will try, and what
ever may happen will happen. I don't give up, and I don't quit while I am
ahead, I will decide to stop when I am happy with what I have done, and I know
I gave it my best. Right now though, NO, I am not ready, cause I know I have
more to give and try. I will do what ever it takes to try and get myself back,
and so I do.
Kristin
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:23:50 EDT
From: WEIVODAATnospamaol.com
To: carreaATnospamvideotron.ca, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Fear (Kristen)
Message-ID: <24065514.35d731c7ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 8/16/98 10:47:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
carreaATnospamvideotron.ca writes:
>Another point of view on the same thing.
>Forget the time, (forget the chronometer in the race)
>Feel/(sink in) the moment, (feel the blade of the sky as you race cut the
>icy snow one flake at the time).
>Two different ways to motivate oneself to do something.
>A question....
>Does your kneew need motivation or attention to heal?
>Could you feel the same way serving tea? or simply walking in the street? or
>breathing?
>Why wait to be on skys to all in the moment?
The feelings I get when I am on my skis is something different, and nothing
can replace. Nothing gives me the adrenaline rush before a race, or the
butterflies in my stomach when I know I am running next. Nothing like the
feeling when I am in the gate, and all fears and butterflies go away, and only
one thing is on my mind, and that is to attack that course lying in front off
me, and show the hill who is control. Nothing can ever replace any of those
feelings. No one can really understand the feelings either, unless they have
also experienced it.
Kristin
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 12:26:43 PDT
From: "guy johnson" <tantriciskATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Introduction from evelyn
Message-ID: <19980816192644.5787.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Evelyn: Welcome. Guy and I found your description of matrix energy
most familiar, and love that you don't meditate (yet...) Or maybe you
do in your own way, just haven't mastered all the terms for describing
the event. We believe that each person has their own unique way of
tapping into the source of wisdom they hold inside. Congrats for going
there on your own. It can be a hairy ride; a little bravery goes a long
way.
You mentioned the exhaustion from seemingly sleepful nights, and it
tapped a familiar point as well. I usually have to take a day to crash
in the course of my week: like a necessary oil change or something. And
the quality of sleep during the day seems very much deeper than what I
experience at night. The oobes come and go. Trauma always inspires it
for me. Guy can readily go away, it's more a matter of focus and how
intense he allows his k to get. (He actually left his body while
sitting on a barstool at a very spiritual pizza place one time. Came
back as the medics tried to decide what to do with this body with no
pulse, no breathe. He sat up as they panicked and said, Oh, I'm ok. I
was just meditating... This was one of four similar events in which he
fell off stools backwards after leaving his body, and didn't return
until the people around him panicked. And no, he wasn't intoxicated.) He
has constant access to k energy and chooses to integrate his physical
world with it when and as he chooses. Which is most of the time. But
usually not to that extreme extent.
You are among friends. Love, katrina & guy
>From kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com Sun Aug 16 01:18:42 1998
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>From: Danijel Turina <dturinaATnospamhempseed.com>
>Subject: Introduction
>
>
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>Forwarding a message from Evelyn Niedbalec:
>
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>From: "Evelyn Niedbalec" <log_me_inATnospamhotmail.com>
>To: dturinaATnospamhempseed.com
>Subject: Introduction
>Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 16:06:10 PDT
>
>Hi all!
>
>My name is Evelyn and I just joined the list and feel inclined to
>introduce myself and why I joined. I won't put everything in cuz it
>will just take tooooo dang long! A couple of years ago, I began having
>these weird "dreams" in which I left my body and went places, like to
>the edge of the atmosphere or into the dog. Sometimes I had strange
and
>beautiful tingling in my whole body. Just before Xmas, the experiences
>became more common. In addition, I began having strange leg cramps
>while sleeping so that I would wake up in the morning with a pulled
>muscle and not even know why! (a few times, I woke up during the
cramp,
>but usually not)
>
>In December, I found a post about out of body travel and I realized
that
>what was happening was "real." I began attemping to have more travels
>because it was fun. As I had more, I began having strange headaches
>most days between my eyes, I who never gets headaches! I assumed it
was
>side effects of my asthma medications...
>
>Several months ago, I found out that my internet penpal lived in
>California nearby so we met. He had a kundalini awakening a year ago
at
>the Monroe Institute (for exploring altered states of consciousness).
>When I met him, we shook hands, and a strange shock went through me,
and
>I had great difficulty carrying on an intelligent conversation after
>that. (don't think it was full kundalini awakening though). I had 3
>times more OBEs after meeting him for several weeks. Didn't sleep much
>and headaches got worse, then shifted to top of head. Began seeing
>energy fields around objects. Then had crazy moods shifts for several
>weeks but realized it was kundalini thing and managed to get a grip on
>myself by dealing with past fears etc.
>
>Still dealing with old stuff, but pretty stable now. Headaches have
>abated, but now I have energized feeling in head and feel a little
dizzy
>a lot of the time. I am seeing white flickering matrix energy thing
on
>everything now which may be contributing to the dizzy feeling. This
>last week, I wake up in the middle of the night feeling dog tired and
>take all day to recover, like I must be doing something energy draining
>during parts of sleep.
>
>Anyway, its been a wild and crazy ride this year for a former seeing is
>believing, pure science kinda person. I am recently learning about
>meditation, but haven't made much progress. I also listen to hemisync
>tapes from Monroe inst, which aid in altered states of consciousness,
>and give faster results. My main prob with meditation and the tapes is
>that I often fall asleep! Anyway, that's the short version, believe
it
>or not!
>-Evelyn
>
>
>______________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>-----
>E-mail : dturinaATnospamgeocities.com
>Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
>
>
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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:29:08 -0400
From: "carrea" <carreaATnospamvideotron.ca>
To: <WEIVODAATnospamaol.com>, <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Fear (Kristen)
Message-ID: <01bdc94c$23671ea0$ac00fdcfATnospamvlogidyu>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>In a message dated 8/16/98 10:47:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>carreaATnospamvideotron.ca writes:
>
>>Could you feel the same way serving tea? or simply walking in the street?
or
>>breathing?
>>Why wait to be on skys to all in the moment?
>
>The feelings I get when I am on my skis is something different, and nothing
>can replace. Nothing gives me the adrenaline rush before a race, or the
>butterflies in my stomach when I know I am running next. Nothing like the
>feeling when I am in the gate, and all fears and butterflies go away, and
only
>one thing is on my mind, and that is to attack that course lying in front
off
>me, and show the hill who is control. Nothing can ever replace any of those
>feelings. No one can really understand the feelings either, unless they
have
>also experienced it.
>Kristin
You said IT so well Kristin,
Love
Antoine
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 15:34:44 -0500
From: jane <bigeyesATnospammindspring.com>
To: WEIVODAATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Fear (Kristen)
Message-Id: <v03020911b1fcf112b30eATnospam[209.86.87.219]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kristin wrote:
>The feelings I get when I am on my skis is something different, and nothing
>can replace. Nothing gives me the adrenaline rush before a race, or the
>butterflies in my stomach when I know I am running next. Nothing like the
>feeling when I am in the gate, and all fears and butterflies go away, and only
>one thing is on my mind, and that is to attack that course lying in front off
>me, and show the hill who is control. Nothing can ever replace any of those
>feelings. No one can really understand the feelings either, unless they have
>also experienced it.
One of the posts prior to this was from a woman pointing out how so many
diverse groups call things by different names that are really quite the
same. Kristin, with all due respect to your path...... and having been in
the gate before....having become one with the mountain.....i also have
learned in life that it is indeed the energy of the tangible thing that is
where the truths lie.
i have also experienced the same connection when i showed horses and flew
as one around a course, oblivious to the crowds and everything else excpet
being one with my horse and the fences in front of us. i have also
experienced "it" when on the tennis court....... i have also experienced
"it" when my writing flows and i think 20 minutes have passed when indeed
it has been four hours. i could go on but i think i have expressed
something here. i also understand that you feel alone or unheard because
you think no one understands because they may not have had your exact
experience.
All of our experiences differ......but the language we are speaking when
fully connected...is one of spirit. Everyone understands sad......but what
makes one person sad differs from another. If we focus on the "what" part
of the equation we will remain disconnected.
If we share the emotion....sad....or angry...or frustrated...or happy...or
defeated..... we cah connect in energy.
i hope i have made sense. Please, all, forgive me if i haven't. i know
what i'm trying to say is clear to me. LOL
jane
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