1998/08/10 14:49
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #556
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 556
Today's Topics:
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ "guy johnson" <tantriciskATnospamhotmail.c ]
Re: A burning question [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: A burning question [ Antoine "Carré" <antcar2ATnospamyahoo.com> ]
UNSUBSCRIBE [ "John Phillips" <maderasworldATnospamhotma ]
no guru no mantra no religion [ "guy johnson" <tantriciskATnospamhotmail.c ]
Shaktipat / Guru Principle [ hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT) ]
Re: A burning question [ fredaann2ATnospamjuno.com (freda larson) ]
Re: the wizard (tg) [ Rik W <love_rikATnospamyahoo.com> ]
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:32:09 PDT
From: "guy johnson" <tantriciskATnospamhotmail.com>
To: sheilathorsonATnospamprodigy.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <19980810163209.7067.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
We'll try this again...
Dear Sheila:
I had a very similar experience to yours, and thought sharing might
help you feel validated. I had a spontaneous awakening at the age of
23, (24 years ago) shortly after my daughter Springli was born, in 1973.
I had injured my back, and was caring for her alone for several months.
It was clear to me that she was thinking, but I was baffled because she
obviously didn't have words. I decided to try to think without words
myself, and my meditation (I didn't know that I was meditating, I never
had a teacher) over the next few months became more and more focused;
first, by holding the thoughts that appeared in my head, and then by
grasping the space between the thoughts. It was a space most enjoyable,
and I had an impending sense that something big was about to happen, but
as soon as I acknowledged it, it would disappear. Most frustrating. But
I kept at it with vigilance.
More and more there was a powerful connection between my third eye and
perineum, and I began to focus the energy which flowed from one to the
other. I would concentrate and hold, then release the built up energy
and fall into it or flow with it, a repetitive cycle. What had been
primarily a night time activity, sometimes all night, turned into part
of my day to day focus. I was energized by the practice, rather than
tired, despite the lack of sleep. At this time I was an atheist and
totally unprepared for the awakening which was about to occur.
Finally, sitting at a table having a conversation and practicing in my
head simultaneously, I was able to stay in the space of no words without
my intellect interrupting, and the energy explosion was 30 minutes of
indescribable undulating colors and expansion. I was acutely aware of
being, a part of this awesome expansive love, but completely unaware of
my body. Unbearable pleasure, of a kind that made me question whether I
was alive or not. Just prior to the incident, my tongue became thick in
my mouth, like I was going to puke. My mouth had this metallic taste,
and my entire being was filled with this ringing, like a billion
crickets. There was a feeling of a fluid flowing up from the base of my
spine and spilling into my third eye and crown. My arms and legs and
hands and torso ballooned in feeling until I lost any sense of my
physical body, I simply expanded into this light, and became the light
itself. Or, that was what it felt like to me.
I saw the person I had been talking to that day at my daughter's
wedding last summer, and I asked her if she remembered the incident. She
said she always remembered it and wondered how it had affected my life.
(Guess I'll have to look her up... She might describe what it looked
like from the other side.) We had no idea what had happened. I learned
it was called kundalini by a yoga instructor in 1975. Hope this helps.
Guy
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>Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:36:44 -1000 (HST)
>Message-Id: <199808100036.OAA16091ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
>From: sheila stickney <sheilathorsonATnospamprodigy.net>
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>I had an out-of-body kundalini experience at the age of 18, 24 years
ago. It happened after a session of meditation, totally unexpectedly and
without warning. For these 24 years, I've told very few people. Ineed to
share my life-altering experience with those who will understand. During
this experience, my soul floated above my body, and the only thing I
felt was an all encompassing pure, unconditional love from God. The
force of this love I couldn't' begin to describe. There was no sense of
time, but after I came back into my body I noticed that ten minutes by
the clock had passed. If anyone has had an experience like this, please
e-mail me. I've never met anyone who could share this type of
experienvce with me. Thanks.
>
>
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Date: 10 Aug 98 14:22:38 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A burning question
Message-Id: <OUT-35CF022E.MD-1.0.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> From much that I have read, it appears that Kundalini is regarded as a
> transformation of sexual energy. But there are a differing views about
> whether one should remain celibate while Kundalini is in the process of
> arising, or whether moderate sex is acceptable. Also, many of the
> writings refer to the "retention of seed" for men, but what about for
> women? How does this translate? I know that there are tantric sexual
> practices that are used for the awakening of Kundalini, but again, what I
> have read seems to be more focused on the male aspect of the practice.
For goodness sake if you're going to bonk, bonk, but don't make a
bloody issue about it. ;-/
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Antoine "Carré" <antcar2ATnospamyahoo.com>
To: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A burning question
Message-ID: <19980810173953.19655.rocketmailATnospamsend1d.yahoomail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I know that there are tantric sexual
> > practices that are used for the awakening of Kundalini, but again,
what I
> > have read seems to be more focused on the male aspect of the
practice.
>
> For goodness sake if you're going to bonk, bonk, but don't make a
> bloody issue about it. ;-/
>
> Paul.
Why Paul, does it make you feel unconfortable?
I personnally find, even if i am a male, that the feminine aspect of
sexuality, is new in litterature. And would love to discorver more
about the feminine in me, buy relating to the experience of others.
Antoine
_________________________
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:56:07 PDT
From: "John Phillips" <maderasworldATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <19980810185610.7775.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
UNSUBSCRIBE
I just don't have enough time to keep up with the list.
If anyone has any quick ideas for my travels, please email me
personally. My name is John Phillips and I enjoy NLP, Hypnosis, and
Metaphysical everything.
Thanks for a great list,
I learned a lot and wish you all more success and happiness then you
could ever dream for.
John Phillips
maderasworldATnospamhotmail.com
>From kundalini-l-requestATnospamlists.execpc.com Mon Aug 10 06:54:45 1998
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>
>Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:03:12 -0400
>To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
>From: hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT)
>Subject: Shakti, Ki (Chi) intelligence.
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>
>>
>># Wat abt mental constructs becoming sentences?
>
>It is the sentences and words which bind us. Mantras are letters and
>phonemes which can 'unbind' us.
>
>The power of sound and vibration.
>
>>>
>>> Shakti is the creative, dynamic, expressive energy of pure
consciousness.
>>> It is intelligent
>>
>># How is it intelligent?
>
> It is the revealing energy. Grace. Not intelligent in the thinking
/mind
>sense. It knows what you need. Shakti moves on its own accord by what
is
>called in Shaivism as 'svantantrya' or free will of of the Self. It is
the
>expansion of Self. Moving, dynamic, but never separate,. It becomes all
>objects.
>
>Ki (Chi) on the other hand, a type of Shakti, is a blind force that
needs a
>mind a will to focus and direct it. Ki is an earth form of Shakti, but
very
>attenuated. Ki can be used to heal or to punch through walls.
>
>If Shakti were white light and a prism held to it, Ki would be one of
the
>colors of the rainbow. A pure color, of course, but only a portion.
>
>Martin
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:14:18 PDT
From: "guy johnson" <tantriciskATnospamhotmail.com>
To: scott5606ATnospamyahoo.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: no guru no mantra no religion
Message-ID: <19980810191421.18773.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
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Dear Scott: re: did you get a guru? a teacher?
I felt as though I had found my first true friend when a yoga teacher
explained and handed me books which validated my awakening.
Autobiography of a Yogi was the first book I read. My intellect was
overwhelmed by the enormity of who I was becoming. I went through many,
many painful periods of emotional clearing and internal struggle over
the years. It seems that my relationships didn't work because I
couldn't communicate well, and I didn't care about making money, though
later on I forced myself to "fit in" and produce in the traditional
sense. I suffered for those choices, but suspect that they serve to help
me have compassion for myself (Most Difficult) and others. I have been
a carpenter, seaman, diver, teacher and boatbuilder. I hid in my work
and I denied much of what I could not share, at that point, with others.
I veiled my eyes so others would not know me. (I was extremely abused
as a child, and that victim thing had caused me to create an exterior
which was hard, skilled and powerful, but emotionally dead.) I was
split between the false front I felt I had to put forward to survive,
and the truth of my spiritual knowing and the beauty of my private,
silent, precious space. My attempts to hold energy back always came
through in my work; I have an uncanny ability to know things about wood
and boats which seem to come from a source that is not mine, which is
not possible given my history (in this lifetime).
And that grace was accompanied by some very harsh and bizarre
accidents, events which I now understand to have been "wake-up" calls,
literally. They also provided enormous opportunities for me to practice
my own physical and emotional healing, feats which were beyond the
average individual. (I severed my foot from my ankle in a fall while on
a small Maine island, while stepping into the darkness to take a leak.
Fell into a twenty foot cravasse, and thought I'd sprained my ankle.
Found my sneaker floating next to me and my bloody ankle inside it...
never went into shock, had to navigate the boat back to the mainland and
arrived four hours later at the hospital. I had been holding my sneaker
and ankle together, and never required any antibiotics following the
surgery to reattach it. No infection, no loss of feeling, nerves and
circulation virtually unchanged. That was just one of several dramatic
incidents.)
I was able to practice living my knowledge through my various work
settings, maintaining a wordless world, while allowing the visual to
project in my mind as it would in a computer; intricately resolving the
technical problems of the entire construction, (say, of a vessel), and
holding that image to allow changes, with full knowledge of their
repurcussions, and to be able to "see" this way in a very short period
of time, sometimes milliseconds. This created a perfection beyond the
capacity of my brain or intellect to relate, because they were both
limited by verbal description. I believe it is a state of being. This
could only be experienced through connection. What began as physical
manifestation, in the form of boats or houses, escalated into an
intuitive understanding about how to impart to others access to energy
for their work.
I became aware that I was imparting this ability to my students. And
that that energy could be felt with more than my lover. As for the
burning question, I try not to limit my natural desires. All occurs as
it is willed. Now that we think of it, I've never considered myself to
have been celibate, but my awakening came during a time when my first
wife enforced a near-celibacy that I never really acknowledged. I was
trying to recreate the state of orgasm without masterbation. I wanted
to satisfy myself without disturbing my wife. I was so charged with
sexual energy that I needed an outlet; I was not seeking god, but I was
very much seeking love. My wildest dreams at that time could never have
encompassed the enormity of my experiences. I KNOW THE DOUBTING TOM. It
wasn't until 1975 that I realized that the energy source was spirit, or
god, and not a personal accomplishment. That is painful to remember.
But it was obviously a necessary step, to help me get to here. I
believed nothing unless varified by personal experience. My faith is
broader now, and my life's work here is to help others to realize for
themselves, their own path and energy. It isn't an exclusive thing.
It's more an allowance. Guy
ps: seems important at this point to tell you that Katrina writes for
us. I'm dyslexic and slow to type. So, we have to sign together. And
we do think together, anyway, so it's really easier for everyone this
way.
______________________
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 03:54:37 -0400
From: hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT)
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Shaktipat / Guru Principle
Message-Id: <199808101946.PAA28508ATnospampcnet1.pcnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Martin,
>
>Perhaps you may be gracious enough to explains what happens when one is K
>awakened already. K is awake and working, then if you receive shaktipat -
>what happens, or what is supposed to happen?
In my limited understanding........
The Kundalini is your personal drop of Shakti. In most, it is contracted,
dormant, sleeping. Actually a portion of it is somewhat awake to keep you
alive and allow you to do your worldly activities. The spiritual part is
contracted.
At some point in an individual's development, through Grace, the Kundalini
awakes and begins to expand back to it's original infinite state. As it
expands, it travels up the mystic Sushumna canal, piercing chakras as it
goes. As it expands, it burns samskaras. (psychic impressions from previous
lives stored in the subtle body) These are the karmic seeds which keep
dragging you back, again and again)
The amount of time this takes varies from individual to individual. If you
fan the lit flame vigorously then it burns bright and fast. Do nothing and
your flame burns at the speed of rust (rust is a fire, an oxidation). Once
lit. It never goes out.
Everyone leaks (squanders their Ki and their Shakti) We can't help it. It
takes constant effort and continuous practice to plug the leaks. You know
when you have plugged them because you can feel your Shakti expanding
faster and faster. Like blowing up a ballon. The surface area expands
geometrically.
It may take one lifetime, or many. Once the flame is lit, it will
spontaneously ignite in the next life if the job wasn't finished before the
individual leaves the body.
The Guru is actually a principle, not a person. It is formless, infinite,
not bound or limited by anything. It is the free will and expression of the
Self (God). The Guru is Shakti in it's capacity to reveal the presence of
the Self to the individual soul.
As Allan said, it can come to you in many ways. Shakti does what Shakti
does. No one tells the Shakti what to do. Different than Ki. Ki, you tell
it what to do. You direct it. The most a person could be for Shakti is a
conduit for the transmission of it. Like a clear pane of glass that lets
the sun through.
Personally, I have always been partial to the formless Guru. (once I
personally verified that it is indeed true)
I am very uncomfortable around anyone proclaiming to be a Guru.
The true test of a Sadguru is that he/she must be able to give you an
experience of the Self (God) living in you, as you. Living in you as the
witness. That experience manifests differently for each individual.
If the supposed Guru can't do that, then he is just a teacher. Nothing
wrong with that, of course, but not a true Guru.
The word 'Guru' has been quite abused and diluted.
When my teacher refers to 'The Guru', he refers to the formless Guru
principle, his teacher, or his teacher's teacher. Never to himself. For us,
he is just a humble yogi. (he looks and seems just like you or me at first
glance. But watch out. Very unassuming. Hidden power).
My personal experience after initiation was incredible physical sensations
starting at the crown which over the course of two years flowed through and
lit each chakra going all the way to the ground and reflecting back up to
the crown.
It was like a cone with the wide end on the top and the narrow end on the
bottom. Then the 'widening' began. Now it is more like a cylinder and
getting wider all the time.
About 1.5 years into it, the Shakti hit the Muladhara chakra and the
Kundalini woke up. The Kundalini seems to be a small part of the overall
transformation.
The 1.5 years before the Kundalini woke up were filled with all sorts of
'experiences'. These 'experiences aren't the point, but they do make good
measuring devices as to where one is at in the process.
I should mention that I had practiced 25 years of martial arts, yoga, and
meditation with no results other than to make this body into an extremely
strong vessel for the Shakti. (That wasn't a conscious intention).
Also, have been experimenting with the concept of 'continuous practice'.
Training oneself to always be doing a practice of some type except when
actually having to engage someone in world activities.
This concept has been quite powerful. The practice is against the friction
of the world. When one goes to the teacher, where there is no friction and
a conducive environment for growth, one blasts forward like a rocket,
making quantum leaps (as if there is somewhere to go)
Actually the purpose is create great 'velocity of awareness'. It also
breaks up the mental compartmentalization that world and spiritual practice
are two different things.
The Shakti led me to a Taoist breathing posture discipline several months
ago which I have absorbed and which allows one to generate Ki, then
distribute it to the 5 organs and the periphery of the body. It breaks up
blocks and unifies the Ki field.
It is called Sun Do. I will transmit the breathing practice to all of you
shortly.
This completed my 'grounding' and I became a lightning rod for the Shakti.
Martial arts, Tai Chi, Qi Gong are all good disciplines for building Ki.
But they saturate the body indirectly.
One Sun Do practice = 20 Qi Gong practices.
Sun Do moves Ki directly and consciously. My discovery was that as soon as
I moved Ki from the Tantien (Ki storage battery below the naval in area
where Svadhistana chakra is) to the periphery, the Shakti flowed out of the
subtle body, down the meridians, following the Ki. Suddenly I had a body
wide Shakti field. This was accompanied by extraordinary experiences. I was
'onto' something here.
A void of sorts was created in the subtle body which was followed by a
'massive' downpouring of Shakti through the crown chakra to fill that void.
I realized I could now consciously integrate the Shakti into the physical body.
The more I can relax and step aside, the more pours down into the body. At
some point this body will be saturated in Shakti, just as it is already
saturated in Ki.
Who knows what will happen then. Should be very interesting.
In answer to your question about what happens after the Kundalini wakes up:
Each time, when sitting in the presence of the teacher when he shifts his
awareness upwards and radiates Shakti, the result is a 'God' intoxication
for a few days and an overall 'acceleration' of all effects.
I think the best way to describe my experience is this:
In the beginning after Shaktipat, it was as if a couple musicians were
playing music. Over time, more musicians were added. Different sections of
instruments were added.
Now, it is like a large grand symphony. But.... the first musicians are
still there playing. It just gets deeper, broader, wider. It appears to be
an infinite process and I sense that what I am describing to you is only
the beginning of it. Tip of the iceberg.
What I believe is going on is an 'orientation of awareness' away from the
'immanent' aspect of the Self (world manifestation) towards the
'transcendental' aspect of the self.
If you view the world manifestation, the self is hidden. If you see the
Self (really see it) the world disappears.
It is much like the example of the two scientists studying light. One looks
to measure waves, the other to measure particles. One sees waves, the other
sees photons. Each is correct. Both are aspects of light. But... you can
only see one aspect at a time from the narrow view.
In this game, it appears as though you can do both. One's perspective can
climb to a point that one sees both the transcendent aspect and the
immanent aspect of the Self at the same time. This would be the
'Jivamukta'. An individual awake while still in the body.
I'm told that one cannot accept the 'final understanding' and still retain
a body. So the yogis stop short of this final understanding and walk the
world as awakened beings until they consciously shed the body.
Probably more than you wanted to know. Hope that helps.
Best,
Martin
PS. There is a passage in the Vijnanabhairava which describes quite vividly
the ascent of the kundalini and what happens. Some of it is difficult to
understand.
I will print it out for all of you in the near future when I get a chance.
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:35:01 -0700
From: fredaann2ATnospamjuno.com (freda larson)
To: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: A burning question
Message-ID: <19980810.143502.-96637.0.fredaann2ATnospamjuno.com>
>>Also, many of the
>> writings refer to the "retention of seed" for men, but what about for
>> women? How does this translate? I know that there are tantric sexual
> >practices that are used for the awakening of Kundalini, but again,
what I
> >have read seems to be more focused on the male aspect of the practice.
>For goodness sake if you're going to bonk, bonk, but don't make a
bloody issue about it. ;-/
--
Paul.
As a female K-lister I think it would be nice to make a bloody issue of
this !
There seems to be precious little for we women .....
bonkin' or no bonkin'
freda
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rik W <love_rikATnospamyahoo.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: imtgxxxATnospamaol.com
Subject: Re: the wizard (tg)
Message-ID: <19980810214652.25216.rocketmailATnospamsend102.yahoomail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi TeeGee. Very thoughtful post.
> Wouldn't just the thought of having a Guru, ie.
> someone placed upon a pedastal, create such a
> disillusionment as Danijel had with his experience?
[....]
A vantage point is helpful if we want to put our
learning in perspective. Those who expect 'rock solid'
teaching learn well from statues and structures,
but may learn little from real humans. Most humans
move too quickly for them to edify an accurate
understanding about. So they stare. They may "follow"
from behind, avoiding the eye contact that would only
liquefy them, scheming ways to stop their opponent long
enough to steal his secrets. Anything to avoid an
honest relationship.
> How does one avoid a situation like this?
With Love. It's a basic relationship question.
God, Guru, spouse, friend, associate, math problem...
it's all the same. Open your heart and mind until the desire to learn
consumes all doubts. Trust. Respect.
Ask questions without presumption or manipulation. Ask Oneself - If
I'm not Loving, what could I be doing???
> Maybe, rather than placing someone up higher than
> themself, instead see the *Guru* as an Elder Brother,
> one who is equal to us, but has more experience, more > knowledge,
to share?
Why not ask the Guru what type of relationship HE
requires? (ie. Respect him...) Perhaps sometime after
asking Oneself what kind of relationship YOU require.
(ie. Respect yourself)
> Or maybe it just has to do with expectations of how
> the Guru (or anyone) *should* act?? (that damn co-
> dependancy again...)
Bingo. Another way of saying Complete Disrespect.
Another way of substituting one-sided wishes for
Love and human relationship.
> Are there certain rules a Guru must follow to show
> true Guru-ship? [...]
> I mean, if [... a Guru acted "strangely"...]
> - I woulda been outta there. What is to learn from
> that, but that the guy makes up his own rules?
Insightful.
A Guru making up his own rules... imagine! :)
They must be respected as the Reality they represent.
> xxxtg
cheers Rik
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"If you want to follow me, you've got to play pinball.
So put in your earplugs, put on your eyeshades, you
know where to put the cork." -TheWho from 'Tommy'
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