1998/08/10 09:32
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #555
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 555
Today's Topics: Re: Unidentified subject! [ "jim privacy" ]
Re: the envelop [ "Jason S. White" ] Re: the wizard [ Danijel Turina
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, ah__qATnospamhotmail.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-ID:
A seeker wrote:
>One question that I hope someone on this list can enlighten me.
I have seen many people having spontaneous movements soon after they start their chi kung practice. The masters explain them
as result of chi circulation. These movements are spontaneous, but the mind can also exercise control. Usually the masters advise
students to to tone them down when they become too violent. Can I equate
them with movements of kundalini? Are they also manifested in some kundalini awakenings? Is there any connection between chi and
kundalini?
*** I'm no expert, but it sounds just like the "kriyas" common to meditation, where the awakened kundalini purifies the seeker at all
levels including the physical body. Spontaneous movements are common, including yoga postures the seeker could not perform in normal
consciousness. Kriyas can take many forms, including release of emotions, spontaneous chanting, roaring like a lion, hopping like a
frog, etc.
The seeker cannot always exercise "control" over them, but can ask Guru or Goddess for help in keeping them manageable.
I don't know enough to answer about chi being related to k, I'll leave
that one to another k-lister.
Welcome!
Love, -Jim
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:21:30 +0800 From: "Charles Attfield"
To: "Kundalini Mailing List" Subject: Re:Unsubscribe
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BDC459.67951980"
Unsubscribe Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 00:21:42 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent To: Sekhem13ATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: kundalini and hot flashes
Message-Id:
Yes, they are a kundalini symptom, and not an uncommon one. Just karma
burning off. Drink lots of water. A story: once, in a meeting there was a fiftyish woman witch friend of
mine who was having difficulty telling an emotionally painful experience. I came and stood behind her and put my hand on her back, supporting her with
my energy. After, she went off to collect herself, and 5 minutes later, she experienced the hottest hot flash of her life.. and intuitively knew it was
connected to my energy gift. Her fears burning away. Another fem friend in her late 30's gets a hot flash whenever she gives
me a massage.. I surrender to a massage, and in surrendering, I give her energy which makes her sweat..
Blessings, Mystress.
>In a message dated 8/6/98 3:36:31 PM, you wrote: >
>>I am looking for information on kundalini awakening and hot flashes. I >>have had hot flashes for a year and cannot find any medical cause. I
>>suspect that they are related to a kundalini experience I had. >>Debbie
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 19:04:05 EDT From: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: the wizard
Message-ID:
I've been thinking of Danijel's post the last couple of days. (and BTW, enjoyed it a lot - soooo much intrigue, mystery, drama, comedy all combined
into one post!). Must have made for a glorious adventuress vacation...
Wouldn't just the thought of having a Guru, ie. someone placed upon a pedastal, create such a disillusionment as Danijel had with his experience? I
mean, if you do have someone placed up above you, they are bound to come falling down at some time or another. (or at least this has been my
experience).
How does one avoid a situation like this? Maybe, rather than placing someone up higher than themself, instead see the *Guru* as an Elder Brother, one who
is equal to us, but has more experience, more knowledge, to share? Would doing that create disillusionment? Or maybe it just has to do with
expectations of how the Guru (or anyone) *should* act?? (that damn co- dependancy again...)
Are there certain rules a Guru must follow to show true Guru-ship? I mean, if
I were to have followed Muktunanda's Guru Nitiyanda (sp?) - the one who layed butt-ass naked towards his disciples, then threw sticks at them when they
would ask a stupid (in his eyes) question - I woulda been outta there. What is to learn from that, but that the guy makes up his own rules?
xxxtg
* See no veil, Speak no veil, Hear no veil *
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 98 17:02:21 -0500 From: Marybeth Gottshall
To: Subject: A burning question
Message-Id:
Hi, K-listers:
I have a topic that I'd like to open up for discussion, that I haven't
really seen discussed since I joined this list about 2-1/2 months ago. Perhaps it has been discussed ad infinitum in the past, but not lately. I
find this surprising since it is at the root (no pun intended) of the Kundalini experience. The topic is (ahem). . . well, er... um... sex.
And celibacy.
>From much that I have read, it appears that Kundalini is regarded as a transformation of sexual energy. But there are a differing views about
whether one should remain celibate while Kundalini is in the process of arising, or whether moderate sex is acceptable. Also, many of the
writings refer to the "retention of seed" for men, but what about for women? How does this translate? I know that there are tantric sexual
practices that are used for the awakening of Kundalini, but again, what I have read seems to be more focused on the male aspect of the practice.
My own Kundalini awakening happened after an eight month period of
celibacy. Any input from anyone else on this? (again, no pun intended). I am interested in how list members approach this somewhat personal matter.
Although, I can see where one might not want everyone on the list to know their sexual practices. Hmmmm...... Is this question in bad form,
Mystress?
Any good reading on this topic?
Marybeth Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:19:59 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel To: AfperryATnospamaol.com
cc: anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in, Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: your shaktipat explanation, my shaktipat initiation
Message-ID:
On Fri, 7 Aug 1998 AfperryATnospamaol.com wrote:
> Dear Anurag,
> > In a message dated 7/8/98 9:32:30 am, you wrote:
> > >Anurag> Skaktipat is not God but a ladder towards GOD.
> > What is shakti if not God (in His/Her/Its dynamic aspect)?
Very True.
And may I suggest
> that in essence a shaktipat master is nothing more than an instrument (a > hollow tube even?), to focus the grace of the Divine to the individual.
Very True. You have explained it very nicely.
You there is doha by kabir i don't know it in full but one line is
GURU GOBIND DOUN KHARE KAKE LAGUN PAON!!!
And second line means Satguru is the oen who showed me the path and made
me one with lord. Hence i will touch the feet of Satguru rather than Lords.
I have
> received shaktipat many times over the last 11 years and I have never had the > slightest doubt or confusion about the difference between the source and its
> channel.
That's very nice to know. It will take u to great heights.
> > God bless,
> Alan >
Love,
Anurag Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:21:12 +1200
From: Jax To: sheilathorsonATnospamprodigy.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id:
At 02:36 PM 8/9/98 -1000, you wrote:
>I had an out-of-body kundalini experience at the age of 18, 24 years ago. It happened after a session of meditation, totally unexpectedly and without
warning. For these 24 years, I've told very few people. Ineed to share my life-altering experience with those who will understand. During this
experience, my soul floated above my body, and the only thing I felt was an all encompassing pure, unconditional love from God. The force of this love
I couldn't' begin to describe. There was no sense of time, but after I came back into my body I noticed that ten minutes by the clock had passed. If
anyone has had an experience like this, please e-mail me. I've never met anyone who could share this type of experienvce with me. Thanks.
> >
Hello Sheila, I had a similar experience about 4 years ago when I was 27. I was class being put through a group meditation with lots of loud music.
I rose above my body and there were glows above other people. I was approached by two beings who were encouraging to come
with them... but I declined. When I came out of the experience it took me several days to get grounded and I
felt the presence of the two beings all that time, with me. In the end I told them to 'back off or I'd be too scared to try again.. and that they'd
have to take things more slower and more gentler with me' - which they have... :-)
...jacqueline
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 09:08:56 +0200 From: "Jason S. White"
To: , "Kundalini" Subject: Re: the envelop
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Thank you for the response. I value your thoughts and I hope that you will
share more of them.
>Jason wrote: >> [...] I pray for forbearance, resolution of anger,
>> sublimation of lust. God help me to be clean. [...]
Jan:
>Jason, the analogy of the pure lotus and the mud wasn't made for talented >ones like Ramana Maharshi who merely did what was natural for him. The
>analogy goes for people like you, who have to struggle. When C. G. Jung >visited India, he could have visited Ramana Maharshi but he didn't.
Instead, >he met a person like you, who was rooted in the earth and yet was trying to
>realize the Self. Jung considered himself fortunate to meet this man, >because for him it was 'the test of Maharshi's teaching'.
Jason: Not familiar with the analogy. Do tell. The struggle is present,
yes. My body is rooted in Earth, yes. Someday my body will be reabsorbed into it. The same is true for all human beings. This creates tension only
if there are delusions of grandeur, high ideals of oneself. But there is comfort in Earth. I muck about in the mud because that is my work, my
command. The same is true for all human being. But the Self in me lives on with out "me." This body is but a flickering node of experience for the
Self. I cannot claim that. It is not mine. And the same is true for all human beings.
Jan:
>Anger can cause a lot of problems. Although there is no 'general recipe', >maybe you can adapt this one for your own use: "count from 1 to 10, smile,
>think, then act with dignity".
Jason: This is not resolution of anger. Resolution of anger is going to the roots of it and pulling them out. To cover anger with a supposed notion of
dignity may save others heart ache, yes. But within, nothing should be dismissed so easily without contemplation. Recommend to look at the source
of anger squarely, with respect and ask it be kind, to help, to forgive, to be calm. In exchange offer it your allegiance, tell it you will not fight
with it anymore by covering it with "dignity." Transformation of the anger is possible in this way.
Jan: >Have you ever reflected on the nature of lust? If one's wife turns out to
be >one's (formerly lost) sister, would feelings change? If you are looking at
a >picture of your mother at age 18, is she still your mother? For some, it
>helps to see every woman as a mother or a sister. Kundalites could see >Goddess or Krishna in a partner and everyone else.
> >
Jason: Yes I have reflected on the nature of lust. I have watched my eyes
move towards the objects of my lust seemingly automatically. I don't punish myself for this but maintain a vigilant awareness of the process. I have
seen that this is the mind's preoccupation with the objects of the senses. Awareness is beautified since the dawning of compassion and steadiness in
the face of these objects. Yet still I have lust.
May all your days be lightened with the unburdened awareness of your equality with ants and with elephants.
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:06:23 +0530 (IST) From: Anurag Goel
To: Maureen Heffernan cc: Kundalini , kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: shaktipat/ordination Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Seems like Kundalini Awakening. feeling of energy like a bolt of lightining is related to kundalini awakening. Also the feeling that energy
is felt in hands and especially tip of fingers.
love, Anurag
On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Maureen Heffernan wrote:
> Hi,
> Wondering if what I experienced at ordination into the priesthood is > similar to recieving Shatipat,different or more? I experienced
> spiritual intoxication and as if a bolt of lightning came down through > the top of my head and down my spine then out the hands. Interesting.
> > More Light.
> > + Maureen
> >
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:18:12 +0530 (IST) From: Anurag Goel
To: Marybeth Gottshall cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: A burning question Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
As far as i know through reading and ppl who r far ahead on Kundalini awakening they advised me to store the sexual energy. One has to divert
the energy which can be prana ( not sure) upwards. If one can do that with sexual practices i think sex is fine than. But i have felt ejaculation by
itself when i sat in for long meditation. i think one has to control that and transfer the energy upwards. That's what i think .
Love,
Anurag
On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Marybeth Gottshall wrote:
> Hi, K-listers: >
> I have a topic that I'd like to open up for discussion, that I haven't > really seen discussed since I joined this list about 2-1/2 months ago.
> Perhaps it has been discussed ad infinitum in the past, but not lately. I > find this surprising since it is at the root (no pun intended) of the
> Kundalini experience. The topic is (ahem). . . well, er... um... sex. > And celibacy.
> > From much that I have read, it appears that Kundalini is regarded as a
> transformation of sexual energy. But there are a differing views about > whether one should remain celibate while Kundalini is in the process of
> arising, or whether moderate sex is acceptable. Also, many of the > writings refer to the "retention of seed" for men, but what about for
> women? How does this translate? I know that there are tantric sexual > practices that are used for the awakening of Kundalini, but again, what I
> have read seems to be more focused on the male aspect of the practice. >
> My own Kundalini awakening happened after an eight month period of > celibacy. Any input from anyone else on this? (again, no pun intended). I
> am interested in how list members approach this somewhat personal matter. > Although, I can see where one might not want everyone on the list to know
> their sexual practices. Hmmmm...... Is this question in bad form, > Mystress?
> > Any good reading on this topic?
> > Marybeth
> >
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:29:00 +0530 (IST) From: Anurag Goel
To: HMT cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Shaktiwhat? Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > Hehe!
> > Words, words, words. Just made of a bunch of letters and phonemes. Words
> become sentences, sentences become mental constructs.
# Wat abt mental constructs becoming sentences?
Mental constructs > bind the individual. Dump 'em. Dump the mind too.,. Establish the thought
> free mental state / posture. >
> Shakti is the creative, dynamic, expressive energy of pure consciousness. > It is intelligent
# How is it intelligent?
and projects the objective manifestation we call the
> world. It is the Self's expansion. >
> Shaktipat is an initiation and is the 'Descent of Grace', or Shakti. Mostly > given by a Sadguru via look, touch, sound whispered in the ear or through
> the yogi's will. >
> Shakti is anugraha or the revealing grace. >
> The self performs 5 functions: >
> Create >
> Preserve >
> Destroy >
> Concealment of the Self (now you see me, now you don't, even though I am > in you and around you).
> > Revealment of the Self through Grace.
> > You don't have to be physically present for it. (but it's more fun)
> > Shaktipat usually awakens the Kundalini if the yogi who initiates is
> powerful enough. >
> >
> Martin >
Love,
Anurag Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:17:37 +0100
From: "jb" To: "K. list" ,
"Marybeth Gottshall" Subject: RE: A burning question
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Marybeth:
> Hi, K-listers: >
> I have a topic that I'd like to open up for discussion, that I haven't > really seen discussed since I joined this list about 2-1/2 months ago.
> Perhaps it has been discussed ad infinitum in the past, but not lately. I > find this surprising since it is at the root (no pun intended) of the
> Kundalini experience. The topic is (ahem). . . well, er... um... sex. > And celibacy.
> > >From much that I have read, it appears that Kundalini is regarded as a
> transformation of sexual energy.
Jan: Habit-mind is like a gramophone, forever playing "the same old song". Apart from the "old groove", there is nothing that will keep you away from
celibacy. There is a small trap. The "old groove" contains your response to anger, dislike, judgment of others etc. as well. Unless the entire "old
groove" is discarded, celibacy will result in suppression. A very sad example is swami Vivekananda, wanting to roast his genitals in a fire. As
even the physical body has to be transformed, a lot of energy is required.
In my case, there was no K. awakening as a start, but something like suddenly seeing the Light as happens with Zen. After that, the "old groove"
was experienced as dimming the Light, so I discarded it. K. started to rise within a week. As I had no knowledge whatsoever of what was going on, I had
no choice but to accept what came naturally. Apparently, K. "works" very well without one's knowledge or view...
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:39:33 +0200 From: Danijel Turina
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: the wizard
Message-Id:
Hi tg! :)
At 19:04 1998.08.08 EDT, you wrote: >
>I've been thinking of Danijel's post the last couple of days. (and BTW, >enjoyed it a lot - soooo much intrigue, mystery, drama, comedy all combined
>into one post!). Must have made for a glorious adventuress vacation...
:)
>Wouldn't just the thought of having a Guru, ie. someone placed upon a >pedastal, create such a disillusionment as Danijel had with his
experience? I >mean, if you do have someone placed up above you, they are bound to come
>falling down at some time or another. (or at least this has been my >experience).
Oh, I think it depends. In my case, the idea of who he is was bigger than
him, so it really was an illusion to be broken.
>How does one avoid a situation like this? Maybe, rather than placing someone >up higher than themself, instead see the *Guru* as an Elder Brother, one who
>is equal to us, but has more experience, more knowledge, to share? Would >doing that create disillusionment? Or maybe it just has to do with
>expectations of how the Guru (or anyone) *should* act?? (that damn co- >dependancy again...)
:)
>Are there certain rules a Guru must follow to show true Guru-ship? I
mean, if >I were to have followed Muktunanda's Guru Nitiyanda (sp?) - the one who layed
>butt-ass naked towards his disciples, then threw sticks at them when they >would ask a stupid (in his eyes) question - I woulda been outta there. What
>is to learn from that, but that the guy makes up his own rules?
:) I think the best way is to see how the folks around him look like. If you find a zombie-ward, the guru sucks.
-----
E-mail : dturinaATnospamgeocities.com Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:03:12 -0400 From: hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT)
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Shakti, Ki (Chi) intelligence.
Message-Id:
>
># Wat abt mental constructs becoming sentences?
It is the sentences and words which bind us. Mantras are letters and phonemes which can 'unbind' us.
The power of sound and vibration.
>>
>> Shakti is the creative, dynamic, expressive energy of pure consciousness. >> It is intelligent
> ># How is it intelligent?
It is the revealing energy. Grace. Not intelligent in the thinking /mind
sense. It knows what you need. Shakti moves on its own accord by what is called in Shaivism as 'svantantrya' or free will of of the Self. It is the
expansion of Self. Moving, dynamic, but never separate,. It becomes all objects.
Ki (Chi) on the other hand, a type of Shakti, is a blind force that needs a
mind a will to focus and direct it. Ki is an earth form of Shakti, but very attenuated. Ki can be used to heal or to punch through walls.
If Shakti were white light and a prism held to it, Ki would be one of the
colors of the rainbow. A pure color, of course, but only a portion.
Martin Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:39:28 -0500
From: Dirk Haueter To: "'hyperATnospamhmt.com'" , kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Shaktiwhat? Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Whether one's kundalini is awakened may have more to do with the student.
HyperATnospamhmt.com wrote:
> Shaktipat usually awakens the Kundalini if the yogi who initiates is > powerful enough.
> >
> >
> >
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:36:53 EDT From: AfperryATnospamaol.com
To: Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Shaktiwhat? Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 10/8/98 3:40:27 pm, you wrote:
>Whether one's kundalini is awakened may have more to do with the student.
> >
> HyperATnospamhmt.com wrote: >> Shaktipat usually awakens the Kundalini if the yogi who initiates is
>> powerful enough.
IMHO, both of you are right but only partially. While both the channel (the yogi) and the recipient (the student) are intimately involved of course,
nothing will occur without the Divine will. Shakti is God and kundalini will not awaken unless/until God wills it, however worthy both the channel and the
recipient. Shaktipat is simply a method of transmission and you could get it off a toilet seat if God felt so inclined :-)
I think one of the dangers of the current List discussion about shaktipat is
the tendency to reduce it to a purely human endeavour. I feel this is to degrade it. Shakipat is Divine grace, one of the most sacred moments that a
human being can experience, and we are badly off track if we reduce it to a purely yogic manifestation.
God bless,
Alan Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:32:35 -0400
From: hyperATnospamhmt.com (HMT) To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Shaktiwhat? Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>IMHO, both of you are right but only partially. While both the channel (the >yogi) and the recipient (the student) are intimately involved of course,
>nothing will occur without the Divine will. Shakti is God and kundalini will >not awaken unless/until God wills it, however worthy both the channel and the
>recipient. Shaktipat is simply a method of transmission and you could get it >off a toilet seat if God felt so inclined :-)
> >I think one of the dangers of the current List discussion about shaktipat is
>the tendency to reduce it to a purely human endeavour. I feel this is to >degrade it. Shakipat is Divine grace, one of the most sacred moments that a
>human being can experience, and we are badly off track if we reduce it to a >purely yogic manifestation.
> >God bless,
>Alan
Very nicely said. I go with Alan's explanation.
Martin
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