1998/07/04 18:49
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #497
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 497
Today's Topics:
Re: Sharing (Re: Love by, me.) [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: Lucid Dreams [ Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com> ]
Re: Go West. West Gone. [ Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com> ]
Re: Go West. West Gone. [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
No! [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
re: love is... [ Rik Wallace <rik_wATnospamusa.net> ]
Re: Lucid Dreams [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
A dream [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: No! [ "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com> ]
Re: love is... [ "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com> ]
Service for the Yoga world community [ "Octavian Sarbatoare" <sarbatoareATnospamh ]
lucid dreams [ Richasu Young <ryoung2ATnospammaine.rr.com ]
Book Club [ PShaw86324ATnospamaol.com ]
Date: 3 Jul 98 22:54:00 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Sharing (Re: Love by, me.)
Message-Id: <359D6098.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Dear Jim,
> I hope you continue to share your experiences, emotional and physical,
> highs and lows, and everything else. I for one would be delighted to
> read them.
:-)
> It's all k-related, so IMO it's appropriate for the list.
This is my view also, most of the time. Although there may be aspects
or ways of looking at things or contexts about my own path and where I
am that is not properly conveyed or assumed by others and it can make
things dull for other people.
> PS: Just don't wander off into over-intellectualized theories about what
> it all means, like you-know-who. ;)
Yea. I keep slipping all the time. Even if I just sit still for a
short while I start to feel like I'm withdrawing. I have to keep
correcting myself. I'm starting to get to grip with what I read Jiddu
Krishnamurti saying a while ago, about how problems aren't solved by
trying to solve them. I never really thought of myself as a fighter
but by golly I seem to ram into just about everything trying to solve
it.
What you said about being honest is becoming clearer for me. I think I
am starting to accept that I am near the bottom of the spiritual heap.
Not to say that as an abuse to myself but just facing facts, seeing
more perspective, finding out I was always going in the wrong
direction and deceiving myself. Lots and lots of work to do.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 21:20:50 -0700
From: Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com>
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net
CC: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreams
Message-ID: <359DADA2.1B19ATnospamProdigy.com>
David Bozzi wrote:
>
> Dream characters are aspects of you. Like the people in our life.
Dave,
Maybe only in the sense that we are all one. I have learned that the
people in dreams (at least sometimes) are people I know, playing
themselves. You are telling me what you have read and accepted according
to psychological theory. I would have accepted that explanation years
ago, until my first lucid dream. In that dream, I was having fun walking
along making scenery appear and reappear. I was speaking with my
estranged husband, whom I thought I had conjured up. Suddenly my mother
appeared, across the street. She was waving and walking toward us. I
could not make her disappear. Since he never got along with my mother,
my husband disappeared. I could not make him reappear, nor her
disappear. Finally, I thought, how in real life would I make someone
disappear. I turned my back and walked away from my mother.
She called after me; he reappeared briefly, but I then woke
up. (Understand, that I don't have a great relationship with mother
either.) The next day, my mother phoned and started yelling at me. I
asked her what in the world she was mad about. She said "you know". I
said, I don't. She said "you turned your back on me". I was shocked. I
said "What do you mean?" She said "You know". I said "Are you talking
about the dream?" She said "yes". I said "Did you dream this last
night?" She said "yes." I said "Was I with someone?" She identified my
husband. I was momentarily blown away, but I recovered and told her she
was rude, because she had no right to interrupt my dream; she was not
invited. Now, she was shocked.
For your information, David, it is rude to interrupt others dreams, or
try to force them to think any way they do not want to think. I have
learned this in the astral plane. I was told this by the guides there.
Also, recently, a messenger came and politely interrupted my dream; the
astral version of knocking, rather than suddenly appearing within the
dream. I said it was a bad time. He quickly delivered the message and
left. He said "you shall be given the chance to move beyond". This was
in response to my prayer to God to advance spiritually, because I had
felt stagnated. Since then, I have had a good OBE, joined this list, and
been meditating with greater ease. Clearly, this messenger knows and
follows the astral plane ettiquette.
Look at the lucid dream I just had, where I frightened the people away
quite unintentionally. They are not my mental images. They are people,
joining me on another set, in another scene. This physical scene is a
dream too. That is the point that we need to learn.
If you can, let go of the psycho babble, and yes, love the people in your
dreams, because they are really people!
Cathy
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 21:24:47 -0700
From: Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com>
To: Lobster <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
CC: Kundalini - L <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Go West. West Gone.
Message-ID: <359DAE8F.7111ATnospamProdigy.com>
Dear Lobster,
May I ask, why feed the dear man's ego, when it needs to be put on a
diet? :-)
Cathy
Lobster wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,<snip>
>
> I think you probably are God. I can think of no other possible explanation.
>
> Be Well
> Lobster (in awe)
Date: 4 Jul 98 04:06:20 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Go West. West Gone.
Message-Id: <359DAA3C.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> May I ask, why feed the dear man's ego, when it needs to be put on a
> diet? :-)
>
> > I think you probably are God. I can think of no other possible explanation.
That wasn't a compliment. ;-|
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 4 Jul 98 04:36:12 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: No!
Message-Id: <359DB0C9.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi.
It seems that the only place to get off a rollercoaster is at the
bottom of the hill.
Down at the bottom, tonight, I have been very pissed off about myself.
Every aspect of myself seems to be corrupt and not in any way serious.
I have no idea what it means to be serious. For me, seriousness is
a deceptive sincerity.
A new word is, however, entering my vocabulary. The word "No".
Normally this word only ever gets used in deceptions or lies or
denials. But I am starting to see that it has tremendous power to keep
the enemies in the mind at bay. I have been having trouble getting to
sleep tonight with my mind racing and not stopping its thoughts. And
so now am I bloody well saying no, no more, not now, not ever. N. O.
And you know what, I already have more awareness, more attention. I am
now more prepared to say no to anyone and anything. It is bringing me
great strength and security. Not `no' as if to deny something, or `no'
as if to tell a lie, or `no' as if to decieve myself about something
that is true. But simply, bluntly, seriously, powerfully, keeping all
illusions at bay, standing up for myself... NO!!! I am a complete
egotistical bastard. No more. Absolutely enough.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 03:52:12
From: Rik Wallace <rik_wATnospamusa.net>
To: serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com
Subject: re: love is...
Message-ID: <19980704035212.2377.qmailATnospamwww05.netaddress.usa.net>
Mystress to Lobster:
> In any case, this poetry you find so important and worth sharing
> obviously makes no sense..
Rik: Funny... I found Kaffea Lalla's poem to be totally appropriate,
and I welcome its posting. I'd been awaiting an insightful
response to that thread on 'the opposite of Love'. You, Mystress,
had brilliantly suggested 'apathy' as the opposite of Love.
However no one until Lalla (channelled thru Lobster) pointed
out the "obvious" - that Love is not opposed. As the first two
lines read, "Love is not dual/ Love is not separated".
Love just Is.
In a sense (w/ advance apologies for the wordplay) I agree with you that the poetry is senseless, as an accurate description of
Love itself: Truly senseless. It is beyond feeling/non-feeling,
beyond judgement/non-judgement, beyond perspective/non-perspective,
beyond sense and non-sense. It's only the illusion of Non-Love
which appears to oppose the (e)motion of the Self.
> God is All that is, and God is love
Yup, indeedy... but if the ramifications of this
were obvious to everyone here, we'd have a far less
interesting list (to say the least).
Still not quite realizing the extent of my
Universal Love... rik
____
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:12:47 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Wonderer <mrtn74aATnospamProdigy.com>, Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Lucid Dreams
Message-ID: <359DB9CF.9CEB586CATnospammail.snet.net>
Wonderer wrote:
> David Bozzi:
> Dream characters are aspects of you. Like the people in our life.
> Wonderer: Maybe only in the sense that we are all one.
The other sense is fantasy.(Don't take my word for it. See for Yourself)
> I have learned that the
> people in dreams (at least sometimes) are people I know, playing
> themselves.
But not in the sense of Unity, no? Who is 'themself'?
> You are telling me what you have read and accepted according
> to psychological theory.
You are mistaken.(I am unfamiliar with with psychological theory.)
> I recovered and told her she
> was rude, because she had no right to interrupt my dream;
Ah, but whose dream is this?(Really?)
> For your information, David, it is rude to interrupt others dreams,
This 'Other' is The Dream.
> or try to force them to think any way they do not want to think.
Is this possible?I am responsible for what I see...
> I have earned this in the astral plane.
The world is an astral plane...
> I was told this by the guides there.
Fine. But what about Here?
> He quickly delivered the message and
> left. He said "you shall be given the chance to move beyond".
This opportunity is always Here.
> Clearly, this messenger knows and follows the astral plane ettiquette.
Love is the only real etiquette.(would you recognize It?)How is this
messenger different from me?(or anyone else?)
> Look at the lucid dream I just had, where I frightened the people away
> quite unintentionally. They are not my mental images.
They are not your mental images.Ok, whose are they? (Really.)
> They are people, joining me on another set, in another scene.
You love division. As you wish.
> This physical scene is a
> dream too. That is the point that we need to learn.
That's the block We need to transcend it.What we need to learn is beyond
this block.
> If you can, let go of the psycho babble,
Must be 'your' psycho babble.(I've never read the stuff)
> and yes, love the people in your
> dreams, because they are really people!
But are these 'people' separate?Who is this Person?
David,
(a character in the dream)
Date: 4 Jul 98 12:43:31 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: A dream
Message-Id: <359E2373.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi.
After realising what I did about the word `no' last night, I had the
following dream...
There was to begin with a small scene in which I was trying to hide or
avoid some authority person inside a dark room with small doors. But
then I met the authority person and he was surprisingly understanding
and didn't have any grudges. So I walked away and on turning a corner
I was suddenly faced with a huge audience of an entire school.
It was apparently the last day of term and everyone was lined up in
their classes. At the front was this big stand thing on which were
stood a number of school teachers and also some pupils that I recall
from way back. And everyone was clapping, and it was for me.
I walked along, feeling quite special, shaking the occasion person's
hand. It was my birthday. A few people gave presents. I arrived at the
line of people that were my tutor group and made my way down the
line. I thought to start shaking their hands to say goodbuy and they
obliged and each and everyone one of them gave me a gift.
Then I had in my hand some kind of spraycan. At the side was a
blackboard, but it was one of the white ones on which you use pens. I
began to spray over all the teachings that were written there. One of
the schoolteachers, who was a prison officer, went away in disgust to
get the authority of somebody higher up to do something about it. But
I continued spraying and covered everything up. Then there was a
wash-basin in which I began to wash all the foam stuff from my hands.
By the time the woman returned my hands were clean and there was no
trace of having done anything wrong. It came time to go home. I was
then at the front of the place (which was outdoors) and all the other
students had vanished. All that was left were a couple of teachers,
who were prison officers, but they were actually actors from the TV
program Prisoner Cell Block H. It were as though after a day's filming
and the two of them were just sitting chatting happily. So I went
home.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:03:50 +0100
From: "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: No!
Message-ID: <00c001bda755$8e778c20$ce5495c1ATnospamdefault>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul West jokingly said:
>illusions at bay, standing up for myself... NO!!! I am a complete
>egotistical bastard. No more. Absolutely enough.
You underestimate yourself. No change will occur. You are incapable of
genuine effort. It is impossible for you *not* to reply to my email. Knowing
that it is easy to manipulate you - just as your ego does. There will be a
conflict between wishing to show how strong you are - by ignoring - and the
desire to justify yourself. Just ego playing with ego. Both ways you lose
out to your ego.
Somebody asked what the ego is. Observe Paul West. It talks incessantly.
Borrowed wisdom mixed with mindless chatter. Endlessly in conflict with
itself. Has 'profound experiences' on a daily basis. Goes through so much
change but gets no where.
How do I know? See it in myself all the time . . .
Be Well
Lobster
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 15:06:33 +0100
From: "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>,
"Rik Wallace" <rik_wATnospamusa.net>
Subject: Re: love is...
Message-ID: <00c101bda755$90445ce0$ce5495c1ATnospamdefault>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Rik and Kundalites,
>Mystress to Lobster:
>> In any case, this poetry you find so important and worth sharing
>> obviously makes no sense..
>
>Rik: Funny... I found Kaffea Lalla's poem to be totally appropriate,
>and I welcome its posting. I'd been awaiting an insightful
>response to that thread on 'the opposite of Love'. You, Mystress,
>had brilliantly suggested 'apathy' as the opposite of Love.
Some people mix the idea of passion and lust with Divine Love, this is why
they come up with opposites. Apathy is indeed the opposite of these
qualities. Divine Love as you say does not have an opposite but its presence
can be opposed. The 'reason' it does not have an opposite is because it
encapsulates and transcends all opposites. Intellectually you can argue
against this - with your Heart you can not. Depends where you are centred.
>However no one until Lalla (channelled thru Lobster) pointed
>out the "obvious" - that Love is not opposed. As the first two
>lines read, "Love is not dual/ Love is not separated".
>Love just Is.
Forwarded (channelling is for people who can not face up to the wisdom of
their own unconscious wisdom). Lalla has had and has many difficulties which
she overcomes through holding to her Ideal. She is a real person.
>In a sense (w/ advance apologies for the wordplay) I agree with you that
the poetry is senseless, as an accurate description of
>Love itself: Truly senseless. It is beyond feeling/non-feeling,
>beyond judgement/non-judgement, beyond perspective/non-perspective,
>beyond sense and non-sense. It's only the illusion of Non-Love
>which appears to oppose the (e)motion of the Self.
>
>> God is All that is, and God is love
>
>Yup, indeedy... but if the ramifications of this
>were obvious to everyone here, we'd have a far less
>interesting list (to say the least).
Would we? When people work co-operatively towards each others deepening and
fulfilment of Love, what occurs is a growth beyond superficialities.
>Still not quite realizing the extent of my
>Universal Love... rik
It grows.
Be Well
Lobster
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 14:26:35 PDT
From: "Octavian Sarbatoare" <sarbatoareATnospamhotmail.com>
To: KundaliniYogaATnospamwebtv.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Service for the Yoga world community
Message-ID: <19980704212636.18388.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Yoga friends,
Recently I have opened a service for the Yoga world community, the
Vidya Website Design at:
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/university/8/osdesign.htm
The service is usefull to people wanting to publish essays and
articles on the Yoga fenomenon and human evolution.
Let me know if you have articles and essays on the Net to be
linked to my recent design Yoga Science Evolution at:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5058/yosaev.htm
Please specify your website address.
In Yoga,
Octavian Sarbatoare
Sydney
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:13:25 -0400
From: Richasu Young <ryoung2ATnospammaine.rr.com>
To: "'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: lucid dreams
Message-ID: <01BDA777.706117C0ATnospamdt052n35.maine.rr.com>
Guy was unaware that dreams were anything other than lucid, bar an occasional chase dream as a child (and one very intense identity dream last summer: a gift about how he was treating his inner child and the past that helped him get to here). He has routinely changed dreams to his liking, often backtracking to the point of irritation and remaking it in a more pleasant fashion. I, after discovering that I was an incest survivor, found my father happily standing by one night in my dream state while I was engaged in some unclear sexual thing. I was irritated with his pleasure at my expense, and with no fear (!!!) and total calm, told him that he didn't belong here. He left, and I was relieved. Do w/ that what you will. Katrina & Guy
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:49:30 EDT
From: PShaw86324ATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Book Club
Message-ID: <66c4fa43.359edbabATnospamaol.com>
Is anyone interested in starting a "Book" club, where different people could
buy different books of interest, and pass info on to others? I have found I
am interested in reading many books, but can only afford a few.
Liz
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