1998/06/19 03:17
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #464
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 464
Today's Topics: Re: Chakra Position [ "Cathy Berger" ]
Ezekiel's Wheels [ "Wonderer" ] re: your question, kundalini ? [ "b bah" ]
RE: Life as meditation (wasRE: Anybo [ "jb" ] Re: Chakra Position [ ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com ]
Re: Chakra Position [ Matthew Bastress ] RE: Life as meditation (wasRE: Anybo [ "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" ]
Releasing the Bitch [ Nancy ] the awakening of kundalini [ "Sérgio Luiz Gomes"
To: "Kundalini list" , "Avatar Thyer"
Subject: Re: Chakra Position Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Avatar Thyer,
According to my higher self, my chakras are located along the spine. That is also where I get the strongest sense of them, but clearly
their effect is on the whole body.
This is personal, but I have observed that your title has the effect of putting distance between you and at least some of the others on
this list. Is it also having any positive effects? Is it worth the trouble? I sincerely hope I do not offend you by asking this
question.
I am just wondering whether this is part of your spiritual education, or perhaps ours.
Cathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Avatar Thyer To: Kundalini list
Date: Thursday, June 18, 1998 8:27 AM Subject: Chakra Position
> >Greetings.
> >
> >
>I've noticed that a lot of Chakraic systems position the Energy Centers in
>alignment with the spine. I've noticed that some Chakrais systems position
>the Energy Centers in relationship to physical organs. >
>I experience the Chakras as central in relationship to my torso. >
>For instance, rather than the First Chakra being at the base of my spine,
>or my sex organs, it is centered between spine and sex. >
> >
>I AM >Avatar Thyer
> >
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:02:15 -0600 From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: "jb" Cc:
Subject: Life as meditation (wasRE: Anybody have experience with Raja-Yoga?) Message-ID:
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>Jan: >I can only speak for myself. Quite some time ago, life became meditation
for >me. Strictly speaking, there is no "doing meditation" anymore.
This has been happening to for a while now. It is like seeing life from the
inside. And feeling the conections between actions yours, others, nature´s (it is all the same anyway) with the ALL.
> The biblical meaning of sin
>is useless. There is only one sin, ignorance. It is the cause of all >afflictions, egoism included.
very accurate >Chuck:
>> I've >> resolved this issue this way. As I begin to
>> meditate I ask God to "Help me if I'm doing right, Forgive me if >> I'm doing
>> wrong, and please help me know >> which way is right.".
Let god/ess guide ourselfs to the right path.
Let us be detached enough to surrender to god so we can be well lead Let us not to have contact with people having their lives to take others
from the path. Let peace come our way.
> >Jan:
>"Faith in God and his master removes every obstacle". If nothing else goes, >this still works.
Jan, I don´t understand this quite right. God and his master. When you say
master, what are you refering to?
> >Chuck:
>> One other side note: I noticed that this list was started by a 'Richard >> Satin'. I didn't bother me, but I couldn't
>> help note how close 'Satin' is to 'Satan'. I also noted that 'Angelique
>> Serpent' also conjures up an image of >> Lucifer (the fallen angel) as a serpent - 'the angelic serpent'. (I
know, >> I know - the kundalini serpent fire is what you
>> are getting at). It just seemed an odd coincidence.
Chuck, you will find those connctions everywere. You will have to life with
it. Everything has two sides until you notice the nature of the sphere. Angelique is not a satan worshiper. I sense her heart is very warm and
giving. There are people who believe in that sort of thing, but your gut will tell you how to get away from them (not before facing them strongly,
just what I do)>
>Jan: >Enhanced power of association is one of the effects of K. If one gets
>involved, it could lead to psychosis. The best remedy is to observe the mind
>and its thoughts, not interfering / getting involved in any way. Or >reflection on one subject to the exclusion of everything else. Eventually
do >mantra. Lucifer means "bringer of light", the light of Self-consciousness.
Yes Lucifer is supposed to be the brightes more beautiful angel. That is why
vanity is so bad. In terms of mantra, the power is in the sound, not in the concept beneath
it. >
>Chuck: >> I want to experience things that will let me know that enlightenment is a
>> real goal. But how can I tell what is real >> and what is just a figment of my imagination - or just a
>> meditation induced >> euphoria (the 'rush' maybe?)
> >Jan:
>Enlightenment is most real. But it is not an object of perception, nor can >it be grasped by the mind. So don't think about it - that would be a waste
>of time.
very accurate again
> >Chuck:
>> [...] Any advise from people with experience ( bogus yogi's need not >reply) is
>> greatly appreciated.[...] >
>Jan: >Do you have a definition of what is "bogus yogi"? Clearing karma and
>labeling others doesn't mix well. What appears as "bogus yogi" for you could
>be a good teacher for someone else...
Love to you all!
Roberto Lima, Peru
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 14:43:10 EDT From: DruoutATnospamaol.com
To: ChuckOConnellATnospamcompuserve.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Anybody have experience with Raja-Yoga?
Message-ID:
Dear Chuck,
Welcome!
The Rush, heat, Voice, are all part of what Krishamurti called "the process." Mine started Sept. '96. The best advice I can give you is to trust the
process--don't try to fight it. It is "heaven sent" in my opinion!
As far as the Voice is concerned, Listen to it without fear. It might amuse you that I am an agnostic (if anything I respond to Buddhism) but MY voice
often gives me Christian messages!! It is, afterall, all one. En-Joy the voyage. I think you will learn alot here--I certainly have!
Love, Hillary
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:51:44 PDT From: "b bah"
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: walk in the woods very good advice! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
hi david, 'concur w/advice to walk in woods. one day last june, on a
kundalini nature meditation walk/hike, my yoga teacher had the class pick a tree to talk/send energy/love to. we were on a fire trail.i
walked over to the upslope edge of the road, looked up at a very healthy HAPPY redwood and after sending energy to it , sat down on a small block
of sandstone that was jutting out of the road cut, with my back to the tree. tree was about 50-60ft. uphill from me.
i was just sitting there quietly,starting to meditate on the heart chakra,when i gradually realized some spirit was so very gently
wrapping my upper arms and upper torso in what i call warm fuzzies and slowly/gently rocking me from side to side. 'am gropeing for words to
describe feeling. almost felt like i was a very little baby being cradled in someones arms and being rocked, (possiblely to sleep?).
i know of four possible "rockers": the tree, my mother, Mary Arch Angel Gabriel. opinions anyone????
Aloha, a very curious barb
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:48:10 -0400
From: "Wonderer" To:
Subject: Ezekiel's Wheels Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all,
I found this info on Ezekiel:
"Ezekiel has visions of God appearing like a Man, yet glowing and dazzling with fire; and, of angelic beings with four faces, wings,
hands, and WHEELS within WHEELS that contained all-seeing eyes (Ezekiel 1 and 10; also 8). "
The wheels accompanied cherubim (one of the angel families). This
goes toward my feeling that these geometric dancing shapes are a universal language, used by the angels.
Cathy
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:47:16 PDT From: "b bah"
To: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: re: your question, kundalini ? Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
hi, you asked if the heat was K. 'think so. i experience this upon
wakening almost every morning. my response is :well! good morning Shakti, keep it up, burn all the C--- out of me, and then do deep
breathing ~ a breathwork session. it's grrreat! i first did this using an audio tape from Mt. Madonna Center to keep me centered, and to
maintain the vibratory level, but that's too much of a workout. now i just let Shakti it for me.
aloha, lazy barb
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 23:02:07 +0100 From: "jb"
To: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" Cc: "K. list"
Subject: RE: Life as meditation (wasRE: Anybody have experience with Raja-Yoga?) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi Roberto,
You wrote: > Jan, I don´t understand this quite right. God and his master. When you say
> master, what are you refering to?
I am not surprised that you are surprised by the quote: "Faith in God and his master removes every obstacle". The first print of the version of the
Patanjali Sutras I am using appeared in 1938. At that time, a realized yogi was no rarity and neither was a fully liberated one. So then, the quote was
valid, as a master meant Self-realization or liberation. Now, I am not sure of anything. Perhaps Ramana Maharishi was fully liberated in the sense
of the Patanjali sutras. But in any case, Ramana Maharishi is a master in the sense Purohit Swami meant with the quote. No doubt his own master,
Bhagwan Shree Hamsa, to whom the book is dedicated, fits the description too.
The comment is about (I, 22): Success varies according to whether the effort
is mild, moderate or intense.
The entire commentary: The degree of intensity with which the yogi makes his effort gives him
immediate or remote success. Unless his past karma intervenes, success generally is immediate. If, however, the yogi is sincere, if his effort is
intense, the grace of God or of the master intervenes, and the past karma is either condoned or postponed. Faith in God and his master removes all
obstacles. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:58:23 EDT
From: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Chakra Position Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 6/18/98 1:34:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cathy_BergerATnospamprodigy.net writes:
< I am just wondering whether this is part of your spiritual education, or perhaps ours. >>
Cathy....
It is never his or the other person's lesson.... only your (our) own.
xxxtg
* I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Chakra Position
Message-Id:
> * I don't practice what I preach because > I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to *
That's unbelievably funny. My shadow has been preaching
to me all day--just what the bastard needed to hear.
matt child of the union of goddess with something else, trying
to unbecome himself, and
becoming conscious of space again
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:41:30 -0500 From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: the crone
Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Orea wrote:
>The Crone came to me in the form of my Grandmother after she died. I
>dreamed she hugged me. She was incredibly strong and her body was cold. >Then she French kissed me. It was a very disturbing dream to say the least!
I too had the "french kissed by dead granny" dream! I too found it
disturbing. It does help to normalize it to know that I'm not the only one who's experienced this. Perhaps it has some hidden archetypical meaning.
This was a long time ago, so I have no recollection as to what was going on
in my waking life at the time. Although I think it was kind of sucking canal water in general.... It is much better now....
Thanks!
amckeon Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 00:50:05 +0100
From: "jb" To: "K. list"
Subject: RE: Chakra Position Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul wrote: [...]
> > I don't think it really matters one iota where chakra's are or what
> they are. They're just there, leave them alone.
Jan: Yes, for instance the Patanjali sutras do not even mention chakras, let alone where they are. It is irrelevant. Likewise, one can drive a car
without knowing where the cylinders are or how many are present. It is the driving that matters. Not all systems of meditation agree on the amount of
chakras. And in the course of time one will discover that subjectively, more than one chakra has two positions.
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:59:28 -0600 From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: "jb" Cc:
Subject: RE: Life as meditation (wasRE: Anybody have experience with Raja-Yoga?) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks, Jan for making it clear.
Let god/ess guide ourselfs to the right path. Let us be detached enough to surrender to god so we can be well lead
Let us not to have contact with people having their lives to take others from the path.
Let peace come our way.
Roberto
Lima, Peru Date: 19 Jun 98 01:57:38 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Chakra Position Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > * I don't practice what I preach because
> > I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to * >
> That's unbelievably funny. My shadow has been preaching > to me all day--just what the bastard needed to hear.
Matthew Bastress,
Do you know about what the shadow is? I mean, in terms of Jung's
psychology and so on? I'm not saying you have to or that you don't. Just wondering. I read that it is kind of our repressed self. Does
that ring true with what it means for you?
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 19 Jun 98 01:55:33 +0000 From: "Paul West"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Chakra Position
Message-Id:
> Jan: Yes, for instance the Patanjali sutras do not even mention chakras, let > alone where they are. It is irrelevant. Likewise, one can drive a car
> without knowing where the cylinders are or how many are present. It is the > driving that matters. Not all systems of meditation agree on the amount of
> chakras. And in the course of time one will discover that subjectively, more > than one chakra has two positions.
Hmm yea. I have thought about chakras in the past, even played around
with them a bit, and I know generally where the main ones are because that's where I get most k activity. But it is not really necessary to
know these things, or to meddle with them. I think that if we knew everything that the intelligent k knew we might have the authority to
try to think that we know better. But we don't. So I just leave it alone to get on with whatever it's doing. It happened, and it
continues to happen. That is all.
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 19 Jun 98 02:07:54 +0000 From: "Paul West"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Peace
Message-Id:
Hi Folks.
Might have noticed I've been quieter. I'm not saying you should have noticed, just that maybe you did. Nancy, I think it as, speculated I'd
found peace. I suppose that's about right.
I feel much more peaceful now. I don't feel like I'm struggling with everyone. I really felt like I was in some kind of fight of effort
with people here and on the I-AM list. Most of what happens, as usual, is kind of a release, a therapy, a process. I've realised countless
things about myself in the past week or two. My whole life is being reborn it seems after the recent k activity. I am finding myself
taking quickly to new things, I even started doing some painting and drawing, and rekindled an old interest in fishkeeping. I think I
withdrew from the world for a couple of years and that I'm starting to venture out again. It's amazing that after all the hell you go through
there is still time, life still rolls on, and it's just brilliant that you get more opportunity to enjoy things in a new and better way, it's
not just a case of `die and thats it'. There is rebirth into a golden future.
I'm much more at-peace with myself now. I have been shocked at how
hard I've been on myself and how unfeasibly high I place my standards. I'm finding new life by being not quite so successful, not quite so
proficient, and not quite so responsible. I live as such a superhuman most of the time but behind the scenes it is terrifically hard. The
mind of thought is such a capable thing, but somehow there is a greater reality in being rather more humble. I think there has to be a
willingness to forgive oneself, by way of letting go, by way of not re-grasping, and by way of just letting things be. Peace.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:27:10 -1000 (HST)
From: Debbie Cogan To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center Message-Id:
I experienced a sudden Kundalini awakening in July 1994. My experiences over the last four years have been both disturbing, disorienting, and extremely blissful. Before I describe what I went through I will give the readers some biographical information.
As a child I was always interested in spiritual practices. I played with spells, ouigi boards and seances. At fourteen I began meditating seriously and reading Zen. I also became a strict vegetarian at age fourteen and became involved with a health movement that also utilized fasting as a means of recovering health. I have also always had an addictive personality. I became addicted to chocolate as a child for several years which was a way of dealing with the pain from my parents divorce. Then as a teenager, I became addicted to drugs for a few years, mostly marijuana. I did try acid a few times and drank a bit. When I got clean from the drugs at age fifteen, I became addicted to men and stayed in bed for the next fifteen years. I went through two marriages and had a child who is now thirteen.
My interest in spirituality continued into adulthood and I became a Religion major in my twenties. I read about altered states of consciousness, especially Grof's books and became fascinated with concepts such as reincarnation and transpersonal psychology. I also studied Astrology seriously for a while.
After my last marriage fell apart ten years ago, I began studying T'ai Chi which I still practice and teach as well as perform demonstrations in our local area.
I have always felt that I was being led somewhere all my life. I felt this to be especially true when I met my last husband. The karmic energy was so intense that I did not know how to resist it. However, this relationship was truly unhealthy. My biggest fear was that I might end up in court with him someday. He is a lawyer and now a judge. I sensed that if I ever had to fight him in court I would die. This did not make sense but I feared it anyway.
In 1993, my ex initiated a custody fight over our daughter which started the court process I had always feared. As soon as this began, I instantly began praying. I did not understand why, but I felt on some deep karmic level as if my life were at stake and I was going to die in court. I prayed constantly every day for seven months. I prayed so deeply that I knew I had traveled to a place inside myself I had never been before. Nine months later, the court battle was over and I had not lost a thing in fact I gained more rights.
At the same time this court action began I also met a man through work who I had a very strange reaction to. Every time I had to meet with this man, I felt as if his energy was trying to invade me. I had to use a lot of effort to push him away. A few months after the custody battle ended, I had to work with this man at his place of business. As we stood there
talking, it felt as though we were standing inside a psychic tornado. I felt actual psychic wind whipping around us. He looked uncomfortable also. Then a voice spoke to me in my left ear and said: "Whatever you do, do not look at him with any awareness of this energy because the moment you do, everything will change". So I went along with this.
A few weeks later, I was taking a workshop with the same man. I was helping with the workshop and he was taking it. He sat in the middle of the room about fifteen feet away while I stood against the wall. About an hour into the class, I suddenly felt my body become paralyzed. I began to panic but then I realized I was in an altered state that actually felt like an intense orgasm. So I allowed it. The energy traveled up and down my spine. It felt as if every cell in my body had woken up simultaneously. Then I was flying. I had traveled somewhere to the source of all life. There was no space or time or structure. I was completely free. I knew this was who I really was and I understood that we are spirits in bodies and that time is really eternal. I did not want to return. When I did return, I opened my eyes and immediately, this man was staring directly at me. I realized that the energy had been coming from his direction. As I looked into his eyes, I recognized h! !
! !
! !
im as the oldest soul I have ever known. In fact, it was so deep and ancient it felt as if I were looking into a mirror of my own soul. After a long time of staring at each other, I looked away. At that moment, he got up and ran out of the building. I could not catch him.
Many bizarre psychic things happened to me after that experience. Four months later I woke up in a state of extremely deep grief which I stayed in for the next three years. I became flooded with past life memories about this man and had to mourn his death from a previous life. The psychic energy which flooded me at that time became so strong that I developed fluid in my lungs from the grief which turned into pneumonia. I almost died from the energy in 1995. A few weeks after I recovered from that, my liver started to fail and I ended up on a 18 day water fast. So I almost died twice in '95 from these Kundalini related energy events.
I have also experienced telepathy with the same man who triggered my experience. I have seen his aura and had vivid dreams. I have experienced being on fire for over a year, nightmares, disorientation to the point of wanting to commit suicide in '96. The grief finally let up about a year and a half ago. I also finally found doctors in Ann Arbor who help people with psychic problems and they put me on energy medicine which has helped tremendously. I am now stable but my life on the physical plane is a mess. I have lost a great deal of money this past year, lost my job and lost a second custody battle so I don't get to see my daughter very much. My future is uncertain and I could use some friends right now.
thanks for just listening......
debbie Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:09:27 -0600
From: Nancy To: kundalini-1
Subject: Releasing the Bitch Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Over the last week, I've been doing and saying things just to mess with a
few select people (who deserve it!!!). I have been troubled with myself because I have been such a bitch. But I couldn't deny that I really was
enjoying myself.
So what is this all about? I wondered. I know that this vindictive streak brings short-lived pleasure at best. Then when the titillation wears off,
I'm left with the havoc I helped create. Deep down, I know this is not the behavior I want to promote in my life.
Today I realized something very important. Sometimes when we start
getting "spiritual," we deny or try to fight our human flaws. That's what I've tried to do for many years. Ironically, the bitch is also a critical
part of my spiritual development. If I deny the shadow I possess, I'm stuck in conflict. The pattern of suppressing these "negative" qualities
perpetuates struggle, self-criticism and control. By allowing myself to express who I am, I have started to find freedom and peace. I find myself
beginning to release from the spinning suppression cycle.
I don't have to be so hard on myself. I can be a bitch if I choose. Holding back the energy robs me of my personal power. I need to embrace
the bitch. Let her out to razz worthy people. I'm guessing that the more I allow the bitch to be free, the happier she'll become. When I embrace
the bitch, I welcome integration of myself.
Don't know if anyone else can relate to this. Seemed so profound to me today that I just had to share.
Nancy
The Bitch of All Creation Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:49:05 -0700
From: "Sérgio Luiz Gomes" (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent ) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: the awakening of kundalini Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
i like to receive more information about the awakening of kundalini
Ronald Gomes
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:07:33 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: NancyATnospamwtp.net
Cc: kundalini-1 <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Releasing the Bitch
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980618220733.00bd4c48ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:09 PM 18/06/98 -0600, Nancy wrote:
>Over the last week, I've been doing and saying things just to mess with a
>few select people (who deserve it!!!). I have been troubled with myself
>because I have been such a bitch. But I couldn't deny that I really was
>enjoying myself.
>I don't have to be so hard on myself. I can be a bitch if I choose.
>Holding back the energy robs me of my personal power. I need to embrace
>the bitch. Let her out to razz worthy people. I'm guessing that the more
>I allow the bitch to be free, the happier she'll become. When I embrace
>the bitch, I welcome integration of myself.
>
>Don't know if anyone else can relate to this. Seemed so profound to me
>today that I just had to share.
>
>Nancy
>The Bitch of All Creation
That is the lesson of the wings. Messenger of God, Divine Judgment.
The bitch can be a gift of love, too.. love to yourself, following your
bliss, trusting others are able to respond to your strength and wisdom
without your needing to edit what flows thru you. You go, Grrrl! Welcome to
the Matriarchy..:)
Blessings, Mystress.
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 00:37:54 -0600
From: jason spencer <starjunkyATnospamuswest.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: new
Message-ID: <358A073D.AC01BBEBATnospamuswest.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
I need to know if this gets thru.
DISCLAIMER!
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