1998/06/16 05:39
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #459
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 459
Today's Topics: Re: addiction and kundalini [ "Paul Torres" ]
Re: addiction and kundalini [ vcooper ] TEST. Don't read. [ "Magnus Zotterman" ]
Re: the wonder of dark places [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ] kundalini VIDEO FOOTAGE available!!! [ sruddATnospambible.ca ]
Re: Sensing Reality [ Holly Nelson ] Another apology [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Simply Different or Greater/Less [ DruoutATnospamaol.com ] Re: Flowering [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
RE: The chosen fool [ "jb" ] Re: Simply Different or Greater/Less [ "Paul West" ]
Re: Sensing Reality [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" ] Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:52:30 PDT
From: "Paul Torres" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, pealATnospamhalcyon.com, lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com
Subject: Re: addiction and kundalini Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
>Fact: >Society has addicted our mentality to think and relate with words. \
>Fact: >Nature's plant-animal-mineral community intelligently relates without
>words. >Fact:
>The words and concepts of our nature separated society too often addict us to think and relate in destructive ways.
>YOUR CHALLENGE: >You can help restore personal and global wellness. Challenge yourself
to let your word addicted thinking tap into nature's non verbal intelligence.
I would have to agree strongly with this E-mail, but I would like to add my own Fact:
Trying to seperate one's thinking and communication from the norm of society is dern hard!
I have been trying to figure out how to think in a better way than words. I do however find that my desire to help others with
descriptions of my comparable experiences as a basis for support and advice hinders my efforts in reaching a different form of thought. The
transition is slow, but I do believe that it can be done. I think that I will be able to think without words eventually, but communication
would then take much more focus. It would be like being in another country and having to look up everything you say in a foreign-english
dictionary. I wish everyone who attempts this the best of luck. Paul Torres
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:14:57 +0200
From: "Magnus Zotterman" To: "kundalini"
Subject: Learning more... Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BD9835.AF6A2660"
Does someone know of a NON-commercial site where I
can read more about kundalini and meditation?
Thanks in advance Magnus Zotterman
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:27:34 -0800 From: vcooper
To: Magnus Zotterman CC: kundalini
Subject: Re: Learning more... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Magnus Zotterman wrote:
> > Does someone know of a NON-commercial site where I can read more about
> kundalini and meditation? >
> Thanks in advance > Magnus Zotterman
possibly, if the space aliens have not yet taken over your town, you
might try the public library. as for myself - it gets harder & harder to find *non-commercial*
ANYTHING anymore in this world of rampant over-population & 'dog-eat-dog' competition.
One sorta has to waft through everywhere & personally sort out the chaff from the grain...
I'll keep an eye out, though! perhaps there's *hope* ? vc
************************ HIPPOPOTOMONSTROSESQUIPEDALIAN:
Having to do with a very long word. Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:57:11 -0800 From: vcooper
To: sruddATnospambible.ca CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: addiction and kundalini Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
sruddATnospambible.ca wrote:
> > Steve Rudd here,
> > Does anyone have video footage of Swami Muktananda or Mahamandaleshwar
> Swami Nityananda or any other Kundalini as he causes the various > manifestations to occur within a crowd?
> > Thanks
no, unfortunately, it's not available apparently from this source, at
this time. however, when you finally receive these visual aids from your other
sources, please let me know? I'm ready to flog myself with a wet noodle some more!
heehee! vc
************************ "Life is what is happening while
we waste precious time pondering what life is all about."- Leo Buscaglia
Valerie Cooper * http://geocities.com/SoHo/7982/ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:18:30 +0200
From: "Magnus Zotterman" To: "kundalini"
Subject: TEST. Don't read. Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01BD9868.78E90600"
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:49:02 EDT From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: hc19436ATnospamautovia.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, magnus.zottermanATnospampictura.com
Subject: Re: Why would anyone... Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 6/13/1998 5:01:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
hc19436ATnospamautovia.com writes:
< No one wants to awaken K. without the proper preparations, because of the bad sides you've read about. On a path of meditation, K. awakening is
unavoidable but the practice of meditation will avoid the traps, tribulations and pitfalls of a forced awakening. >> snip....
Harsha: Nicely stated by Jan. However, sometimes things do go "wrong" and not
by choice. It just happens, perhaps due to fate or karma. Such was my case between the ages of 18 and 21. I had never known such suffering and pain and
did not know how much a human being can bear. Gradually, I was able to normalize the workings of Shakti through the practice of self-awareness,
meditation, pranayama, hatha yoga, kriyas, bandhas, mudras , etc. Like a drowning man grasping for anything, I left no technique unexplored. Satsangha
is the best help. The guidance of compassionate people helps. Ultimately one must depend on oneself and one's own experiences. So even when things go
wrong, they can always be made right by sincere effort, devotion, the right guidance and following the spiritual path. One should keep the faith. Many
have done it. Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:58:35 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" To: kl List
Subject: Re: addiction and kundalini Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Much of the thinking I do is without words, I have to try to fit the
words to the idea/energy if I am to communicate them to others. This is not always easy to do adequately. Sometimes I cannot do it at all.
Orea
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:11:02 EDT From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: the wonder of dark places
Message-ID:
In a message dated 6/13/1998 8:25:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com writes:
< Can anybody explain to me why the
darkness gets darker, sometimes? It this a balance to the bliss? I have a very strong feeling of trying to hatch out of some structure I
can't see. Notes from the "already there" would be much appreciated! Holly
>>
Dear Holly, Freda and friends,
The spiritual path is like a dance. Two steps forward, one step backward. Periods of growth and experiences are often followed by reactions.
The pull of the Soul is always upwards. The drag on the pull are various latent tendencies embedded in our unconscious. The higher we climb the
mountain, sometimes more fierce is the wind. This is conceptualized in the Eastern religions as Karmas. The subtle particles and vibrations which appear
to bind the Soul and keep it from Recognizing its own nature. Keeping the company of wise and spiritual people is the best help when one is down. God
bless you all with all that is best in life and with great peace and joy. Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:47:03 -0400
From: sruddATnospambible.ca To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: kundalini VIDEO FOOTAGE available!!! Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steve Rudd here,
Does anyone have video footage of Swami Muktananda or Mahamandaleshwar Swami Nityananda or any other Kundalini as he causes the various
manifestations to occur within a crowd?
Sorry for the repost, but I messed up the subject in the first message!
Thanks Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:49:25 -0500
From: Holly Nelson To: Wonderer
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Sensing Reality
Message-ID:
"God's Mirror: It's face is the Heart, it's back is the World." Mohammed
Wonderer wrote:
> I only recently understood that my inner universe is my reality. I
> think of this something like "physical beings are like entities turned inside out". Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:31:51 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Another apology Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sorry for the attachment. I meant to only send it to Frans. Delete delete delete! ARGGHHHHHHH!
buh-bye,
amckeon Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:53:56 EDT
From: DruoutATnospamaol.com To: DruoutATnospamaol.com, thyerATnospamfreenet.grfn.org, AfperryATnospamaol.com,
Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Simply Different or Greater/Lesser
Message-ID:
Here's a quote from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi (p. 512)
Question: One person says one thing one way. Another says the same thing in a different way. How is the truth to be ascertained?
Answer: Each one sees his own Self only, always and everywhere. He finds the
world and God according to what he is.
A Nayanar went to Kalahasti for the darsan of God. He saw all the people there as Siva and Sakti because he himself was so. Again, Dharmaputra
considered that the whole world was composed of people having some merit or other and that each of them was even better than he himself for some reason or
other. Whereas Duryodhana could not find even a single good person in the world. Each reflects his own nature.
Love, Hillary
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 17:17:31 -0600 From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Flowering
Message-Id:
vc quoted Krishnamurti:
>There is completion only in flowering and dying....
Does that mean that I can let thoughts of strangling my boss flower and
die? Or in constructing the scenario am I not actually feeding these destructive urges rather than just observing them with detachment?
amckeon,
Manager Dunkin' Avatars
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 23:50:51 +0100 From: "jb"
To: , Subject: RE: The chosen fool
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Kristin wrote:
> Why did K choose any of us?
It is a result of karma. Nobody is born as a "blank". The rule is: one will harvest what one has sown. This can mean a lot of things. Simply, a life
full of hardships and suffering (but without the capability to "accept"). For others it could mean insight in the nature of things, without the
possibility to live up to it (matters like ahimsa). K. has to be seen as very promising, but at the same time it can mean hardships, unbearable
without K. Generally, K. means part of the karma of previous lives has been burnt; if all of it is burnt, the present life will bring Self-realization.
The laws of karma are rather complex. By fulfilling one's karma, one is creating karma too. Example: an atheist manages to talk a vicar out of his
belief. The vicar is in utter despair: he can't work anymore. For the atheist, it is bad karma, but for the vicar, it can be very beneficial, if
he succeeds in raising his awareness of the divine above the level of mere belief. The appropriate sutra (1:12): Karma, whether fulfilled in present or
future life, has its root in afflictions. Sutra (1:13): So long as the root is present, karma remains, creates rebirth, governs its fulfillment and
duration of fulfillment. The commentator Purohit Swami shows a subtle way out: [...] intense karma, whether it is virtuous or vicious brings immediate
result.
Jan Date: 15 Jun 98 22:48:40 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Simply Different or Greater/Lesser Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hillary,
> Answer: Each one sees his own Self only, always and everywhere. He finds the
> world and God according to what he is.
According to what is coming to light these days, it seems that it is indeed true. I have noticed there are many things which I thought
existed in the world, with a set appearance, and that there was nothing I could do to change that appearance. There were things I
avoided like the plague because I didn't like the way they looked. But knowing that it's you, you can change it.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 20:18:18 EDT
From: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com To: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Flowering
Message-ID:
vc quoted Krishnamurti:
........There is completion only in flowering and dying....
amckeon writes:
.......Does that mean that I can let thoughts of strangling my boss flower and die?
I say strangle him.
Seriously though, I love analogies. Gives me a chance to see all kinds of
perspectives on words. Helps you to see how you live your life with whatever perspective you have. Gives you a way to look and see if this is how you want
to go through life.
I think flowers would represent beautiful and positive thoughts. Not the strangling kind of thoughts. Those are the weeds. Flowers grow and bloom and
are most beautiful, whether outside in nature or in a vase. Most are seasonal. Some die but come back year after year without having to replant.
Some must be replanted over and over with a new seed.
If positive thoughts would be the seed, and the flower would be the manifestation of those thoughts, then all thoughts planted would bloom if
properly prepared, and sometimes even if just thrown to the wind. Some of these thoughts would come back naturally to your being when the time is right.
An example would be kindness or some other beautiful attribute you would like
to add to your resume. Once planted and then manifested, it is yours forever. Kindness would be a part of you, to bloom and bloom, over and over.
Other type thoughts must once again be thought of, again and again -- these
thoughts are not there when another situation arises when you are in need of these thoughts/manifestations, when the time is right. They must be replanted
within your own mind once again, most always successfully if planted with care.
I personally see these type thoughts as ideas. You have an idea for a new
job, and you watch it bloom into manifestation. You want to meet your soulmate, and you watch the ideal man/woman come into your life. With these
type thoughts, they must be carefully re-planted constantly to allow them to bloom and bloom again. If you don't take the time for continuity, they are
gone forever. We as humans don't always like to take the time for flowers such as this. Too much trouble. We tend to plant a different flower year
after year, trying to find the perfect one -- one that will stay, that you don't have to replant time and time again.
Looking back at what Krishamurti said, this is not what he meant! But I
already typed it, so you get it. He was using the analogy of ourselves. Oh well.... back to the drawing board.
.......Or in constructing the scenario am I not actually feeding these
destructive urges rather than just observing them with detachment?
Those are weeds. Just pull them.
xxxtg
* Two parrots, sitting on a perch. One turns to the other and says,
"Can you smell fish?" *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
vc quoted Krishnamurti:
........There is completion only in flowering and dying....
I wrote a story to another list which seems to say what Krishnamurti is saying here (of course, from my perspective).... If you have already read this, I
apologize.
...... Hello fellow human being.......
hey don't you call me a human being.
Maybe a human bean. Planted in darkness by someone or something. It was
soooo dark down there under ground. I didn't like it. I didn't know what I was. I could have been a cauliflower for all I know. I cried. I talked to
myself. I talked to the other beans beside me, but they were just as much in the dark as myself. So we made the best of it, living in all that darkness,
looking to each other to make us happy to no avail.... thinking that this was all there was to life, not knowing who we were.... they didn't even seem to
care. (sigh)
I had heard another bean say he heard there was light somewhere, but I didn't really know what that meant, or even how to get there. But the thought of
light fasinated me. I began thinking more and more about it. I wanted to experience it! I wanted to see it! "Puhhhhhleeeeassseee somebody help me
see the light!" I prayed.
The others laughed. Ha! You are just a bean. You live underground. This is all there is. Learn to live with it and we'll all be happy.
So I kept my desire of seeing the light one day a secret, and maybe to even
know possibly what I really am! It is all I could think of. Then one day....
I saw it! I saw it! The light! It's there! I saw it but just for a moment, but it was like nothing I ever experienced before! It DOES exist!
There IS more than all this darkness!
And so I grew ever more faithful that I would once again see the light. Is it possible that I could live in this light one day? In a place where I can
see and know not only myself, but others too? I thought that this light I saw was up above me, so I concentrated on growing taller and taller so I could
reach the light.
And I began growing. and growing. and growing. I grew so tall that one day I just up and popped out of the dark ground and was filled with glorious and
beautiful light! I could see!
I looked slowly all around me. I couldn't see real good as just my head was sticking out of the ground. All of me wasn't in the light yet, but this was
still pure joy to me. I saw daffodils and carrot tops, and even little bunnies hopping around that actually lived completely on top of the ground!
I introduced myself. Actually I didn't know what I was, but I did have a
name -- TG. TG the what, I don't know. I would ask everyone that would listen if they knew what I was. No one could tell me. They would tell me to
be patient and wait and allow myself to bloom in full. I would be sure then.
I concentrated on blooming and growing larger and larger, to become more of who I am so others would tell me. I waited patiently. I didn't ask any
longer. I just waited and grew and loved every moment of the light and living here above ground, knowing that I was more than that thing living in darkness
I was before. I didn't have to look to anyone to make me happy, as I WAS happy!
I was feeling more joyful every moment. I found it didn't even matter who I
was anymore. I was alive and felt alive for the first time in my life. I wanted to share this joy with all the ones I left behind underground, but I
didn't know how to do it!
I began concentrating on ways and means to allow everyone that was in darkness to experience what I was experiencing! All my friends, even though
they laughed at me back then, I wanted to share this with.
And so I patiently waited until an answer came.
I awoke one morning and looked around me, and lo and behold, there were all my friends! Surrounding me, for as far as I could see, popping their little
heads up above the ground just as I did! I was soooo happy! I didn't have to do anything.
And as they grew, I saw they were beans -- human beans, just like me!
(kewl) This is something I couldn't recognize until I saw it in others.
Now I know who I am.
(and then you die)
xxxtg
* Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself:
"Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean ? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind. *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html
To: Paul West Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Self? Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Paul West wrote:
> > ... snip ...
> > But then a while later, on reflection, it seems that I was a bit lost,
> in a kind of mental cloud, where there is tremendous self but > strangely there is no `self' that I can pinpoint. I try to look for
> myself as seperate of the whole thing, but I can't find it. I am > determined to, but the harder I look for it the less I see it.
> > ... snip ...
> > I think I haven't got very much self awareness.
I think your mirror's looking a bit dusty ... allow me to clean it for
you ... *polish* *polish* ... there ... hope you see yourself more clearly.
Personally, I think we are like Dr. Who's T.A.R.D.I.S. not so large and
flashy on the outside ... but eternally huge and worthy of exploration within.
Cya!
Matt
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:22:57 +0100 From: "jb"
To: , Subject: RE: Flowering
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
> vc quoted Krishnamurti:
> > >There is completion only in flowering and dying....
amckeon:
> Does that mean that I can let thoughts of strangling my boss flower and > die? Or in constructing the scenario am I not actually feeding these
> destructive urges rather than just observing them with detachment? >
Jan: K. offers the possibility that all these thoughts, if they arrive, can be
transformed. The only text that comes to my mind is biblical, it says that in principle the thought equals de deed, so thinking in the line of
strangling the boss wouldn't be beneficial. Mind can truly be called a "habit machine"; all repeated thinking will quickly grow into a habit.
Detached observing will in the course of time weaken the thought pattern.
IMO Krishnamurti has something else in mind. Consider darkness. For those who see, darkness means the complete absence of light. For the blind,
darkness is without meaning. Life consists of opposites. How would it be possible to like if there was no dislike? If one of the opposites isn't
experienced to the full (flowering), the other can't be experienced to the full either. Not experiencing to the full (including complete mental
processing) could be defined as suppression. One of the problems with spontaneous K. is, that everything that is suppressed will come out and show
as block or even trauma. Fortunately, one doesn't have to experience the complete gamma of feelings in one life and then, there is the "grace of God"
that can destroy (parts of) karma. Now let's put the flowering/dying hypothesis to the test. Ego / personality can be seen as a structure
composed of thoughts and feelings. After it has flowered, it dies. This is only correct according to Rosicrucians (old me dies, new me is born). On the
path of Self-inquiry this isn't the case. Patanjali nowhere mentions the dying of ego. A nice article about the change in personality (virtues) can
be read on: http://www.humboldt1.com/~jiva/elixir.htm
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:47:10 -0400 From: "Orea de Sa' Hana"
To: Wonderer , kl List Subject: Re: Sensing Reality
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Hi Cathy,
I have felt that way about the unreality of our everyday lives for a number of years. I am trying to maintain a balance by trying to stay
well grounded...and occasionally pretending this stuff is real!
In one of my shamanic journeys I was shown that this life we call reality is really the Dreamtime, and what we do that we call journeying
is when we truly wake up, it is the real stuff. I think there is a lot of truth to this, and I hope it is so because that means the
awful-seeming things that happen are only a bad dream. This makes sense given what we know about *---*'s love for us. Wouldn't we be given a
rubber room to play in so we wouldn't get hurt?
Blessings rom a fellow inmate,
Orea
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