1998/05/29 00:49
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #413
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 413
Today's Topics: RE: Violence/spanking [ Mike Stickles ]
Re: meat&sin&laughter [ Ann Morrison Fisher ] RE: karma [ "jb" ]
RE: Violence/spanking (was RE: Unide [ "jb" ] Re: meat&sin&laughter & Gurus [ Hofe1ATnospamaol.com ]
A new me [ Paul West ] Re: karma [ David Bozzi ]
K-fire heroes wanted:PAKISTAN DETONA [ Mystress Angelique Serpent ] Re: karma [ "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: RE: Violence/spanking
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD8A70.1053C4DC"
RE: Violence/spanking
My beliefs on spanking come more from observation than theory. The most well-adjusted (not just well-behaved) children and young adults I know come from homes where the parents use controlled spankings in specific circumstances (rebellion, etc) while the kids are young. The kids with problems (violent, withdrawn, undisciplined, etc) tend more often to come from homes where either spanking was never used, or where it's applied abusively or in anger (my personal observations - if yours vary, that could explain any difference of opinion we may have on the subject).
I do believe, though, that discipline often has to vary from child to child. My oldest boy gets spankings far more often than his two sisters, not because he's "worse" than them as far as being rebellious or defiant, but because spanking works for him. No other form of discipline reaches his heart when he's got a rebellious mindset. He knows it, too, and has occasionally *requested* a spanking when we were going to give him a time-out or suspend a privilege.
My oldest girl, though, reacts to spankings more like Deborah described for herself. So I've only spanked her maybe twice in the last two years, and only after trying everything else first. Just knowing Mommy and Daddy are disappointed, even if we don't say anything, is sometimes enough to reduce her to tears. Since spanking is usually overkill for her, we rarely use it. My most common (and most effective) method of discipline with her is to sit her on my lap and give her a gentle lecture.
After all, the whole purpose of all of this stuff - spankings, time-outs, loss of privileges, restitution, whatever - should be to promote the moral development of the child, the understanding of right and wrong and the desire to seek the right - not to be some kind of "punishment". If a method doesn't work towards that end, discard it! Parenting mindlessly by some methodology - whether that method *encourages* or *avoids* spanking - is likely to be a disaster. Pursue strong relationships! Know your kids!
- Mike
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:37:17 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher To: Mystress Angelique Serpent
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-Id:
Hey Grrrl:
> Ann, everybody got the original post.. we all saw it.. thought you
>weren't gonna "mediate" anymore.. ?? Grrrl can't help it..
Did you see my answer to Harsha? Ditto.
> You are not a vegetarian, are you, Ann??
No, I'm not a vegetarian, and Danijel, who is my guru, has never told me not to eat meat. He did tell me to eat less of everything during an energy
change, but even then he said, "Use your instincts. If it feels right, eat it. If it doesn't, don't."
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:09:58 EDT From: Hofe1ATnospamaol.com
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Meat and Emotional Health
Message-ID:
Dear Danijel,
Though you may be a vegetarian, you may do harm to yourself in other ways. One's expression of harsh emotions can cause harm to oneself and others. As
for myself, I have been trying to clear me emotional part of my spirit. So I am only human. It has been hard, but I keep up my practice.
According to some Oriental paths, hatred and arrogance can harm the heart, and anger can harm the liver. In many cases a calm, pacific person that eats a
tuna fish sandwich can be in better health, than a vegetarian with a harsh temperment. The body is the launch pad for the soul. There are methods for
dealing with negative emotions. All you have to do is ask.
Best wishes,
Dave Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:20:32 EDT
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com To: annfisherATnospamstic.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-ID:
In a message dated 5/28/1998 12:13:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
< Ann:
I did not defend Danijel, nor did I think he needed defending. I corrected a gross distortion of his words by reposting the original. >>
Harsha: By reposting you succeeded in only making a further mockery of
Danijel. Danijel's "original" post does not exactly show him in a favorable light. His periodic aggression and his persistent use of violent language is
inappropriate and not civil. That is what people have been pointing out. What is it exactly that you do not understand?
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:33:17 -0500 From: Ann Morrison Fisher
To: Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>< Ann: > I did not defend Danijel, nor did I think he needed defending. I corrected
> a gross distortion of his words by reposting the original. >> >
>Harsha: By reposting you succeeded in only making a further mockery of >Danijel. Danijel's "original" post does not exactly show him in a favorable
>light. His periodic aggression and his persistent use of violent language is >inappropriate and not civil. That is what people have been pointing out. What
>is it exactly that you do not understand?
Ann: Why such an enlightened person as yourself would come after me when your
antipathy is for Danijel, due to past battles in which you did not exactly emerge victorious. As I recall, his last line in the previous fight was:
"You're so predictable."
It's still true. Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:42:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: doubles? Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i dont know why, but my posts are doubling mysteriously.
anyone else?
--janpa Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:40:45 EDT
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com To: annfisherATnospamstic.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-ID:
In a message dated 5/28/1998 1:33:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
< Ann:
Why such an enlightened person as yourself would come after me when your antipathy is for Danijel, due to past battles in which you did not exactly
emerge victorious. As I recall, his last line in the previous fight was: "You're so predictable."
It's still true.
>>
Harsha: You do know the meaning of distortion:--) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:37:04 EDT
From: DruoutATnospamaol.com To: divine_goddessATnospamHOTMAIL.COM, hc19436ATnospamautovia.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: primates and meat
Message-ID:
Just to be silly about this, I wonder if Chinese Snake year and Tiger year people have more of a difficulty being vegitarian than Horse and sheep year
people.
Love, Hillary Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:20:44 EDT
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com To: annfisherATnospamstic.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-ID:
In a message dated 5/28/1998 2:14:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
< Harsha: By reposting you succeeded in only making a further mockery of
>Danijel. Danijel's "original" post does not exactly show him in a favorable >light. His periodic aggression and his persistent use of violent language
is >inappropriate and not civil. That is what people have been pointing out.
What >is it exactly that you do not understand?
Ann:
Why such an enlightened person as yourself would come after me when your antipathy is for Danijel, due to past battles in which you did not exactly
emerge victorious. As I recall, his last line in the previous fight was: "You're so predictable."
It's still true.
>>
Harsha: See Ann. You do know the meaning of distortion......:---) Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:45:39 -0400
From: "loba kola" To:
Subject: Re: Food Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
ok, now, this is getting wierd or something isnt it? im vegan. dont eat carcass, no milk, no eggs, no cheese, no honey, no leather, no products that
contain or test on animals. guess what? im still allive and much healthier than my carcass eating friends. some of my family and friends still eat
carcass but i love them anyways. so what. i dont. i have diabetes in my family and carbs knocked me on my ass sometimes because my sugars screwy.
but since i became totally vegan I DO NOT HAVE SUGAR LEVEL PROBLEMS. search the web for vegetarian and diabetes links if you care to become more
informed. so you can guess how pissed i am to hear someone who is probably not a vegetarian/vegan say something definitive about sugar levels and
vegetarianism. to be perfectly blunt about it, those i know who have become veggies, dont stink as much now either, to be perfectly blunt,
carcass eaters have a hoagie armpit smell that never goes away no matter how much deodorant they use. like they have a half a regular tucked under each
armpit. know why? because it is a fact that flesh that is consumed putrifies in the intestines for a long time before being sent to sea. that
putrification is released (like nicotine for smokers) through the pores too. that smell is bacteria/rancid putrid flesh that was consumed, and you can
look it up if you think im blowing air out my ass. no pun intended. those i know who have become veggies also have better attitudes as compassionate
human beings. they also are less likely to die of cancer, heart disease, obesity, etc etc. i no longer get even a simple cold much less any other of
the afflictions that the carcasss eaters i know seem so prone to. i lack nothing in my diet, loaded with proteins and the proper carbs, vitamins,
minerals, etc. i am telling you, that as a vegan, i am totally healthy, no more sugar problems, no health problems. so when can we get back to k* ?
loba kola
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:01:18 +0100 From: "jb"
To: Subject: RE: karma
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
An interesting site it this one:
http://users.deltanet.com/~lumiere/karma/mystknow.htm Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:01:22 +0100
From: "jb" To:
Cc: Subject: RE: Violence/spanking (was RE: Unidentified subject!)
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
amckeon wrote:
> [] > Violence begats violence. Spanking a child teaches her that when someone
> does something you do not like, it is okay to use violence to > control them.
> My experience was quite the contrary. My father used to beat me (age 4..5)
up until I started crying. For some unknown reason, I decided not to play his game anymore and managed to dissociate from the pain. Instead, I focused
on my father, who was panting, without control, beating his hands to mush and I almost felt sorry for him. My father soon found out that he was
hurting himself more than he did me so he tried beating me up with a piece of wood. This time, I started yelling before I was hit and he had to stop
because of the neighbors, who were thinking someone was being murdered. It put an end to the thrashings. Regarding the ability to dissociate from one's
fate, it was worth it. No doubt there are more cases like mine, where violence achieves the opposite.
Jan
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:31:41 EDT From: Hofe1ATnospamaol.com
To: lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter & Gurus Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Lobster:
How should a Guru or Swami or whatever tell the student what he needs to
hear? It's kind of a sensitive subject with me. There are some that violently yell and scream at their students the "truth". I figure if someone won't
listen to you at a whisper, the he/she is not going to get it with loud insults, and belittlement. I know the old saw that the guru must reduce the
ego of the student, but I prefer that in my path that I develop my own introspection. I believe in the old saying" meditate and all questions shall
be answered." Anyway I am doing my best to stay away from silly people. :o)
Best wishes,
Dave Date: 29 May 98 01:39:37 +0000
From: Paul West To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: A new me Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello.
I was reading my horoscope for last Sunday onwards. It sais that a new
era has begun for me and that there will be `a new me'. I have been really shocked at the changes I have gone through these past few days.
I have more awareness, more confidence. My emotional fragility has
ground to almost a complete stop. I am relating to everything much, much better.
I had started to become aware of the fact that I wasn't very aware. I
guess that was the climax of the old me. I had become aware of the fact that I was sensitive and in so doing I seem to have tuffened up
to a tremendous degree. I'm feeling really, really with it at the moment. I haven't felt rejection in my cheeks or sadness in my chin
for a few days now.
When I woke up this morning I felt really fresh and happy, excited even. Mostly I feel really really relaxed, at ease. All the tensions
have just dissolved. I have been having /really/ nice dreams these past few days. Nothing the slightest bit offensive or troubling. K has
continued to be steadily active and subtle in its work.
I just wanted to share this with you. I was felly quite low a few days back. To sum up how I'm feeling in one word it has to be intelligence.
Not intellectual or anything, but actual intelligence, capability, possibility, freedom of expression. It's wonderful. :)
-- Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:47:52 EDT From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: Hofe1ATnospamaol.com, lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter & Gurus Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 5/28/1998 5:33:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Hofe1ATnospamaol.com
writes:
< Dear Lobster:
How should a Guru or Swami or whatever tell the student what he needs to hear? It's kind of a sensitive subject with me. There are some that violently
yell and scream at their students the "truth". >>
Harsha: If someone has to yell and scream the "truth" they should not be posing as gurus. Lack of self - awareness is common among many so called
spiritual teachers. Somehow or another their students will justify the abnormal behavior of the "teacher." The spectacle of blind leading the blind
and confusing each other is both comical and sad.
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:09:20 -0400 From: "Antoine"
To: , "Ann Morrison Fisher" Cc:
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ann,
>Ann: >I did not defend Danijel, nor did I think he needed defending. I corrected
>a gross distortion of his words by reposting the original.
Here we go again with the "original" quotes. You chosed to start what is the "original" from one email tied into a link of emails, and most probably tied
to so many links not related to words its hard to say where is the bigening. Going back to the original quote, action, or..., that started all this will
never get us to before the begining of time. It's an infinite fractal pathway, fun to explore as a mental exercice like chess is. But it leads no
where.
Take a deep breath.
I the now we can re-join into understanding that is the place where to start (and end), the place to be, all the rest is a game. We all forget this
"place" because of so many reason, desire and all that, you know that more than me. They are no necessary or unecessay thing, when we start beleiving
otherwise we get couth in them, forgetting the essential. Accepting that we forget this place, would it be only for a second, is the best way to
surrender back to it. The more ways we let ourselves tempted in forgetting, the deeper we come back to the now, if only we allow ourselves to fall down
to get up again, and again, and again in every moment..
I love you wathever you do, in this moment. It's for you to shield against this possible love or not. Your choice, i can't do anything about it.
Antoine
"For this is the only way man will learn. Very seldom does he learn by quiet
reminders. " Sai Baba
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:22:49 -0400 From: David Bozzi
To: Kundalini Subject: Re: karma
Message-ID:
Debora A. Orf wrote:
> if the past is truely a pure illusion, why didnt the sun set this morning?
Dear Debora,
As the sun sets for you it rises for another. In this very moment now it is rising and setting.
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:23:00 -0700 From: Mystress Angelique Serpent
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: K-fire heroes wanted:PAKISTAN DETONATES NUCLEAR DEVICES
Message-Id:
Chandara is calling for spiritual cavalry to come to the rescue.. folks
were asking for "uses" for Kundalini.. here's one. Give it away to those who ask for it.
Blessings, A.
>Subject: URGENT ELM ALERT!! PAKISTAN DETONATES NUCLEAR DEVICES >>(CNN) -- The detonation of underground nuclear devices by Pakistan on
Thursday drew immediate worldwide condemnation, a response similar to what occurred earlier this month
>when India set off its own explosions. But while the United States said it >would impose sanctions, the response from other countries was not immediately
>clear. (Pakistan has detonated 5 Nuclear Devices underground today.)
>> >>Dear ELMers,
>> >>Please send healing love and light, to PAkistan and India to bring to
>BALANCE and HARMONY the situation which is now escallating. I would ask >you to consider a GLOBAL MEDIATION TOMORROW MORNING at 9 AM EDT Boston/ New
>York. The INTENTION of this meditation is to BALANCE the energies which >have been released, to recondition and stabilize the Earth's Grid system,
>and to align and center the energies which are fueling this global event. >>May we ask for understanding of this lesson, and that the Unity of the
>Global Consciousness will prevail with love and understanding to align >Peace and Understanding, Unity and Harmony to all people of the planet.
>> >>Thank you for your support in this work.
>> >>Love
>>Chandara >www.earthlinkmission.org
> >
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:49:13 -0400 From: David Bozzi
To: Kundalini Subject: Re: primates and meat
Message-ID:
jb wrote:
> Jan: > The males kill (and eat) babies in order to secure their own offspring.
To secure offspring? That sounds like an incentive of Nature.The incentive of
the lion is to get laid.(the female will soon go into heat once her offspring are
lost)
> Jan: > When it comes to the capability of digesting protein rich food, all humans
> are the same: they can't process the damaging uric acid. The origin of the > protein is of course utterly unimportant. So it has nothing to do with
> veg(etari)anism. But as a rule, veg*ans have a much lower protein intake > than those who consume meat.
Not the ones' that supplement with a superior protein. (ion-exchanged whey
isolates) The heavy meat eaters get globs of saturated fat, and dangerously elevated E2 prostaglandin levels leading to weakened immune system, diabetes,
arthritis, heart disease, cancer, the list goes on.(and on) No preaching. Just pure science.
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:10:32 -0500 From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: "Kundalini List" Subject: Re: karma
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Oh do as you please, understand it. If it makes you feel better. Whatever
goes. Wasn´t the main point of my post though, hope you can understand that. >why not understand it?
> >Not everything is perceptable, but a lot can be grokked.
> >*shrug*
> >--janpa
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:14:45 -0500 From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
To: "Ann Morrison Fisher" Cc: "Kundalini List"
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ann, take no care about people with intentions. This is getting too personal and egos of so called light workers are jumping. Mystresses´post was about
to apply for a Ricky Lake Show or Sally´s talk show. Let them scream and grrr all they want.
It is the truth what we percieve.
Love, Roberto. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:54:04 -0500
From: jenny.hillATnospammail.utexas.edu (Jenny) To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: toads, toes, tao-s Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:45:29 -0500 From: "Brent Blalock"
To: "Mystress Angelique Serpent" Cc: "Kundalini - L"
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
>> I heard of some Seekers who had a practice of licking toads to see God. I >>dunno how the toads felt about it.. I'd rather lick ice cream and feel
>>bliss.
>Methinks that people who think that licking ice cream is on the same plane >as licking toads have never licked toads.
I like it when someone licks my toes.... I've even been known to reciprocate!
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:54:39 -0500 From: jenny.hillATnospammail.utexas.edu (Jenny)
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Here we go round the karma wheel
Message-Id:
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:56:02 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent To: "jb"
Cc: Subject: Re: Food
>....... Cannibals call humans "long pig".. Christians eat the body of Christ,
>Kali chews on Buddha guts. >So it goes.. Blessings, Mystress.
"Kali chews on
buddha guts" !!!
LOL!! I SWORE I wasn't going to get in the middle of this meat-eating
discussion, but then I read this line and it got stuck in my head, going on and on, to the tune of "Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush" -- so now I
feel compelled to share it--perhaps it will serve as a useful mantra for someone... perhaps that is how it is serving me, although it mostly just
seems annoying. like when a commercial jingle gets stuck in your brain:
"Kali chews on Buddha guts, Buddha guts,
Buddha guts, Kali chews on Buddha guts
so early in the morning!"
namaste.... still laughing!
Jenny
PS.
Paul, thanks for your comment on meat-eating and karma.
Lobster, thanks for recent story of Guru Harish!
Lobster, Harsha, Jerry, and Ann, thanks for the I AM list. Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 02:04:25 -0500
From: jenny.hillATnospammail.utexas.edu (Jenny) To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Wow, I wonder how many Jennifer Hills can dance on the head of a pin? Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>From: "jhill" >To: , "kl List"
>Subject: Re: onions
>Is there a basic "anything" document or reference about kundalini? For
>someone as new as I am, anything will help. Much of the banter is fun, but >referring to an inside joke, I don't quite get it. Grace & peace. Jennifer
>jhillATnospamsierra.net
Hello and welcome from another Jennifer Hill on the K list--
I go by Jenny, in case that makes it less confusing!
I feel compelled to answer you, my sister JH...
try this URL for info about the K list home site:
http://www.execpc.com/~libra/kund/
and this one for archives of digests of posts to the k list (at least that's what it's supposed to be... I haven't actually visited there yet):
http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=KUNDALINI-LATnospamexecpc.com
My apologies if someone's already answered with these, I'm working off 2
days worth of K list backlog...
namaste
the "other" J Hill
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the tao which can be spoken of is not the tao
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