1998/05/28 09:14
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #411
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 411
Today's Topics:
Karma: was meat&sin&laughter [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
RE: primates and meat [ "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com> ]
Re: meat&sin&laughter [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ]
Re: meat&sin&laughter [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
karma [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Re: karma [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re:please tell me how to unsubscribe [ "jhill" <jhillATnospamsierra.net> ]
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
plutonium & austerities [ melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu ]
Re: new person alert [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Unidentified subject! [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: meat&sin&laughter (but more off [ "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail. ]
Re: RE: The Force of Self-Realizatio [ Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com ]
equanimity [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Ammachi (was Re. meat&sin&laughter) [ AfperryATnospamaol.com ]
Re: meat&sin&laughter [ "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> ]
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:47:15 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Karma: was meat&sin&laughter
Message-Id: <l03010d05b192ff375d56ATnospam[207.71.51.111]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brent!
>What the fuck do any of you know about karma?
What are you so angry about?
>I'm willing to bet that you
>don't have any special senses that let you know when you're accumulating
>karma.
Oh, kind of scary is it, to think karma might be real? That it might be
possible to know about it?
>I'm also willing to bet that your knowledge is all second-hand,
That's what you're hoping... cross your fingers and spit in the river...
>and
>that you all don't really believe in it deep down. I'm certain that every
>person has been totally full of it at some point in their lives, myself
>included, so I'm not saying that you're all abnormally misinformed or
>anything. But I think you people need to do a little reality check.
Looks like it's your reality that's wobbling in the breeze. Hmm, I hope
there isn't a big wind coming...
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:51:48 +0100
From: "jb" <hc19436ATnospamautovia.com>
To: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: primates and meat
Message-ID: <000701bd8a37$6081de00$49f14dc3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
> -----Original Message-----
Susan:
>I wish I could remember the name of the documentary I saw where
> chimpanzees hunt for meat and sometimes the large adult males eat the
> babies. Caused quite a scandal when it was discovered I think.
Jan:
The males kill (and eat) babies in order to secure their own offspring. It
is a widespread phenomenon and there have been many articles about it in
magazines like New Scientist. Male lions will kill and eat pups also when
they get the chance.
Susan:
> There are quite a bit of physiological differences between humans on a
> microscopic or cellular scale...divinity in diversity.
Jan:
When it comes to the capability of digesting protein rich food, all humans
are the same: they can't process the damaging uric acid. The origin of the
protein is of course utterly unimportant. So it has nothing to do with
veg(etari)anism. But as a rule, veg*ans have a much lower protein intake
than those who consume meat.
>
Susan:
> Just because it works for some people doesn't mean it works for others.
> Why do people have such a hard time believing that? Why do they question
> and believe somewhere or somehow you are not just doing it right because
> if I did it 'correctly' I would have the same results as they do or if
> you or I am not following their dietary standards we are assumed to be
> weak willed or psychologically imbalanced or morally impaired? That is
> quite the advertisement for the 'benefits' of being vegetarian.
Jan:
Apart from the uric acid problem that evolution didn't solve even for the
Eskimos, there is the problem of lymphocytosis. The vast majority of animals
are consuming living food; only scavengers don't. Humans need living food
too, but by cooking and processing food to death, they denature food so that
it causes lymphocytosis. Again, this has nothing to do with being veg*an or
meat-eater.
>
Susan:
> Kinda like calling someone an inferior human because their body grows
> brown hair or they lack a specific enzyme, dontcha think?
Jan:
Really? There are health books, stating that the diet of raw, animal food
that the Masai (African tribe) are using is healthier than the processed
veg*an diet of many Westerners. The Masai are drinking unprocessed milk and
fresh blood from their cows. This practice keeps the Masai's blood alkaline,
as opposed to the Eskimo's where blood becomes too acid. Because the Masai
need their animals alive, it causes far less suffering for the animals, as
compared to the fate of animals in Western slaughterhouses. Somewhere I came
across a phrase, stating that humans have a better knowledge about their car
than about their own body. Then, I was highly surprised. Now, I know the
reason: cars don't reincarnate :-)
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:29:06 EDT
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: annfisherATnospamstic.net, anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-ID: <52ba80e9.356d66a4ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/28/1998 4:48:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
annfisherATnospamstic.net writes: (quoting Danijel)
<< Sai Baba, Mahaprabhuji, Madhavananda, Maheswarananda, Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri
>Yuktesvar, Yogananda... They were all vegetarians, and STRONGLY advocated
>vegetarian diet. STRONGLY. If some person here thinks his/her new fuckin'
>age opinion is more valid, and will have more weight, well I don't think
>so! Not in my book. It seems to me that you are all advocating "do whatever
>pleases you" attitude. Well, it's OK, if it means love & no harm. But it
>seems to include other things too, of which I disapprove.
>It is one thing to say "eating meat is not a good thing, but I have to do
>it because my body will die/not function properly without it, so I have no
>choice but to accept it with gratitude and devotion", and "eating meat is
>good because I'm on the top of the food chain" is completely another. The
>first I accept with love, the second I fuck in the arrogant ass with a pile
>driver. >>
Harsha: Quoting Danijel to defend Danijel does not serve the intended purpose.
Anurag correctly pointed out that none of the Gurus Danijel mentioned would
condone his behavior. Language used by Danijel is inappropriate in a civil
conversation. Danijel should follow the teaching of his Guru Sri Pehswani Ji
who advocates Samta. Balance and Awareness are the attributes of a genuine
personality. Without them there can be no peace of mind. An agitated mind is
hardly fit to learn anything (much less teach anyone).
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:42:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Brent Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
cc: Kundalini - L <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980528083111.26053A-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 28 May 1998, Brent Blalock wrote:
>
> What the f*** do any of you know about karma? I'm willing to bet that
you
> don't have any special senses that let you know when you're accumulating
> karma. I'm also willing to bet that your knowledge is all second-hand, and
> that you all don't really believe in it deep down. I'm certain that every
> person has been totally full of it at some point in their lives, myself
> included, so I'm not saying that you're all abnormally misinformed or
> anything. But I think you people need to do a little reality check.
check please!
karma is what? cause and effect. if i throw a rock at your car window
there are a few things that happen, the window breaks, gets all kindsa
little cracks in the safety glass, if you are having a bad day, you might
get pissed off. :)
if i dont keep my pratimoksha vows, the imprint on my mind is pretty
obvious. Try stealing something after you've taken a vow to not 'take what
is not given'. If you were serious, there is a good chance that you feel
guilty, or you feel regret. Or you feel dangerous and got a 'thrill' from
it. If your motive was just to steal out of desire, you've just done
yourself a load of harm. that's pretty easy to see. in my own deluded
state i can see that stealing is not a good idea.
now on the other hand, you have a starving person who steals food. Motive:
hunger. Outcome: maybe the court is 'compassionate' and that person gets
off on a misdemeaner.
How would a civil judge even look at it? the one who steals out of desire
for something, or the one who steals out of hunger? Its pretty easy to see
no? (of course you do have your 'hanging judges' out there, but in
general....)
thank you for questioning my beliefs. it helps one learn patience & stuff.
maitri,
--janpa tsomo
btw: its my karma to hate the f-word. is it really of necessary function
to use it in this context? certainly other language would be just as
skillful and get the point across just as well.
i prefer to reserve a good word like f*** for those times when one really
needs it. Its too precious to just throw around like that no?
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:52:54 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: karma
Message-ID: <002a01bd8a3f$eb4e6c80$bdd11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Debora said:
karma is what? cause and effect. if i throw a rock at your car window
there are a few things that happen, the window breaks, gets all kindsa
little cracks in the safety glass, if you are having a bad day, you might
get pissed off. :)
If the past is illusion, as Sai Baba says, and if all time is simultaneous,
then there is no cause and effect from "past lives." Instead all existence
is in the now including "past" lives and karma is a two-way street of
dynamic psychic influences from one existence to another.
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
A new fractal gallery and screensaver was posted to this site, 4/3/98:
http://www.fractalus.com/sharon/
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ENC Digital Dozen; Enchantment Award; ArtSearch Featured Site;
NetTech NeatTech: Web Best ; Eye Candy Award; Studyweb Featured Site;
Lotus Light Award; Wave of the Day; Hot Site Award; Critical Mass Award;
Best of the Planet, People's Choice Award, 1998; WS Award; Treasured Site
Award
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:58:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Sharon Webb <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: karma
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980528085536.26053D-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 28 May 1998, Sharon Webb wrote:
> Debora said:
> karma is what? cause and effect. if i throw a rock at your car window
> there are a few things that happen, the window breaks, gets all kindsa
> little cracks in the safety glass, if you are having a bad day, you might
> get pissed off. :)
>
>
> If the past is illusion, as Sai Baba says, and if all time is simultaneous,
> then there is no cause and effect from "past lives." Instead all existence
> is in the now including "past" lives and karma is a two-way street of
> dynamic psychic influences from one existence to another.
if the past is truely a pure illusion, why didnt the sun set this morning?
Things move in a relative vein too. From the Absolute view, yes everything
is 'oneish' and time in its form of past present future and beginingless.
THere is a danger imo, to write off relative existence by saying from teh
point of view of absolute 'its all sunyata'.
dawn comes,
sun rises
by
itself.
--janpa
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:54:33 -0700
From: "jhill" <jhillATnospamsierra.net>
To: <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>, <annfisherATnospamstic.net>,
<anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re:please tell me how to unsubscribe
Message-ID: <01bd8a40$2594f120$35ec87cfATnospamjhill.sierra.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
I need info on how to unsubscribe to this list which is not helping me learn
about kundalini, but more about anger... I've seen enough of that, don't
need to know more right now. For the others with great humour & gentleness,
thank you. Bless you. Jennifer jhillATnospamsierra.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: annfisherATnospamstic.net <annfisherATnospamstic.net>;
anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
>In a message dated 5/28/1998 4:48:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>annfisherATnospamstic.net writes: (quoting Danijel)
>
><< Sai Baba, Mahaprabhuji, Madhavananda, Maheswarananda, Lahiri Mahasaya,
Sri
> >Yuktesvar, Yogananda... They were all vegetarians, and STRONGLY advocated
> >vegetarian diet. STRONGLY. If some person here thinks his/her new fuckin'
> >age opinion is more valid, and will have more weight, well I don't think
> >so! Not in my book. It seems to me that you are all advocating "do
whatever
> >pleases you" attitude. Well, it's OK, if it means love & no harm. But it
> >seems to include other things too, of which I disapprove.
> >It is one thing to say "eating meat is not a good thing, but I have to do
> >it because my body will die/not function properly without it, so I have
no
> >choice but to accept it with gratitude and devotion", and "eating meat is
> >good because I'm on the top of the food chain" is completely another. The
> >first I accept with love, the second I fuck in the arrogant ass with a
pile
> >driver. >>
>
>Harsha: Quoting Danijel to defend Danijel does not serve the intended
purpose.
>Anurag correctly pointed out that none of the Gurus Danijel mentioned would
>condone his behavior. Language used by Danijel is inappropriate in a civil
>conversation. Danijel should follow the teaching of his Guru Sri Pehswani
Ji
>who advocates Samta. Balance and Awareness are the attributes of a genuine
>personality. Without them there can be no peace of mind. An agitated mind
is
>hardly fit to learn anything (much less teach anyone).
>
>
Date: 28 May 98 04:02:42 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <356CE1E2.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> While the Pearl marries with the Crystal Clear Light, Kundalini, in
>its upwards movement reaches the middle of our head, causing a
>waterline straight through the head, a waterline unifying the pineal,
>the pituitary and hypothalamus / medulla oblongata (Sahashrara, Anja,
>and Soma Chakra), THE THREE IN ONE, mirrored in the waters in Blue,
>Green and Pink colours.
I can relate to this `waterline'. It was the first sign for me that k
was awake. It was as though the entire top of my head, several inches
in diamter, was alive, all the way through, akind to a water level in
which anything above the level was experiencing energy.
Ooh, saying that makes my spine hot.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:29:12 -0400
From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: plutonium & austerities
Message-Id: <l03130301b19324767d09ATnospam[198.28.38.107]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Anurag wrote:
>>Just looking for a explanattion.
>>
>>The plutonium miner himself went to the mine or he was made to work
>>forcefully in that mine.Why don't the plutonium miners refrain from
>>working in mines.
Well, it pays well and since most of these mines in North America are in
the southwest U.S. & Mexico (remote areas with few employment
opportunities) they get indigenous men (poorly educated for the most part
and with low job skills) to work them. Educated men with "choices" don't
work plutonium mines.
Now, I'm not really into the concept of it being a sin to use the light
switch because of any perceived complicity in the miner's death. As you
say, he made his choices & I made mine and we're both doing the best we can
with what we got. Maybe he's got karma to atone for in the mine & maybe
I've got karma to make using the light switch, but I don't believe this
either, to be honest.
I was just using this as an example of where you go when you believe that
you can "effort" your way into heaven. Two of our friends here seem to
believe that if they just "do the right things" they'll make it. At least
one seems particularly into mortifications and austerities. Good for them.
Because they believe this is their path it is! Mortifications, austerities,
devotions and sacrifices -- I'm all for them -- IF this path feels right to
someone.
*---* has 10,000 faces, as the Hindu's say. I'm not going to tell anyone
else they need to look at the same one I see.
--Signalfire
This mellow thighed
snake just put
my spine out of place ...
---- slanted David Bowie
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:34:48 -0500
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
Subject: Re: new person alert
Message-Id: <l03020900b192d97b6a2fATnospam[206.103.216.221]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Welcome to the list Beth!
>How could I, as a woman, have an
>Inner Self that's male? But then, it would be only natural for me. I've
>always felt like a guy inside, even though I'm heterosexual.
I also feel this way. You are definitely not alone.
>Well, great, I was a gay man in a previous life.
I am not thoroughly convinced of the past life thing yet, but if there is
such a thing, I also suspect I was a gay man in a previous life.
I can imagine myself as a Roman soldier paired with another. They even had
an official name for these lovers/comrades in arms, which escapes me at the
moment. The theory was that they would fight more fiercely if they always
had a special someone at their side to fight with, or protect. Taking "male
bonding" to extremes, as it were :)
>When this first happened, I was
>freaked out, and it didn't happen from my nice gradual teacher, either
Well, I am one of the "spontaneous" ones. I envy those who had something
gradual happen with a teacher. But then, if I believe what Angelique and
others have said, there is a good reason for that. Like there was a better
and higher purpose for me floundering around like a fish out of water, and
thinking I was insane. I am not totally convinced of that yet, either.
Again, welcome to the list. I expect you'll feel right at home here :)
amckeon
"There is no good or bad, only fun or boring." ---Hackers
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:34:57 -0500
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
Message-Id: <l03020901b192ddd16ecdATnospam[206.103.216.221]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Zarcon regaled us with a poem:
<snipped>
>violence violence all around
>is television the source where it can be found
Yes. But we have always had violent entertainment. Some of us have
ancestors who enjoyed watching people being torn apart by wild animals. And
it was the real thing, not a fantasy produced by Hollywood.
>did the parents "spare the rod and spoil the child"
>is spanking the answer or is it a sin
Violence begats violence. Spanking a child teaches her that when someone
does something you do not like, it is okay to use violence to control them.
>where's my belt some would say
>i'll teach that whippersnapper a thing or two
>is that the answer i ask you
Well, that is the answer if what you want is to provide more
slaves/playmates for Angelique. Is that is your intent? ;-)
>what other ways can be found
>to save the children so they do not drown
Not having quite so *many* children is a start. Over population of the
earth causes many ills. Increased violence being only one of them.
JMHO,
amckeon
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:36:04 PDT
From: "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
To: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter (but more off topic)
Message-ID: <19980528143604.5514.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>I'm becoming more aware recently of how "sin" is a good thing. It
>keeps us humble. If you have to rely on animal bodies to keep your
>own healthy, all you can do is be grateful for their assistance. If
>you have electricity in your house, every time you flip the light
>switch you are complicit in the death of a plutonium miner.
For the record there are no "plutonium miners".
There are uranium miners but their death rates aren't nearly as high as
coal miners, nor are non-miner related deaths nearly as high as what
results from buring fossil fuel (coal, natural gas, etc.) and none of
which compare to the deaths caused by the use of automobiles.
Plutonium is a "transuranic" element. It results from a nuclear fission.
In nature it is very rare. For all practical purposes the plutonium in
the world is all man-made in nuclear reactors.
I realize this is a small thing to most but I have a problem when things
don't fit. And I have a real problem with bad science.
Your original line of thought is valid (IMHO).
Namate,
Joe
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 10:41:22 EDT
From: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
To: AfperryATnospamaol.com, janbarenATnospaminfase.es
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: RE: The Force of Self-Realization
Message-ID: <53503d78.356d7793ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/26/1998, 5:52:25 AM, AfperryATnospamaol.com writes:
<<>Jan: In theory, nirvikalpa samadhi is possible without K.
Alan: Is it? I wonder. Do you mean this literally or do you actually mean
without
the individual becoming aware of K activity? This latter I would agree with as
there are many yogis who will testify to that, but the former,
hmmm....................not so sure; don't see how it can happen as I believe
K to be the efficient cause of samadhi.
>>
Harsha: Alan, what you say makes sense and evidently Jan agrees with you. I
expressed my views on this matter sometime back. You might wish to examine the
difference in description of Nirvikalpa Samadhi between Sri Ramakrishna and
Ramana Maharshi. Your insights on the difference (if you find there to be any)
would contribute nicely to the discussion and would be appreciated.
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 09:47:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: equanimity
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980528094150.946A-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
the cracks of the sidewalk
know the secrets of city.
but they only whisper to
each other.
They cant help it,
sidewalk cracks
formed out of saddness,
death, joy and birth.
The small chickory weed
in the sidewalk crack
doesnt know the death she's
causing to the city seam.
Nor does the commuter who
steps on her stem realize
the harm she just did.
so many beings lost
and feeling so alone...
the breeze seems to
be the only one
with arms enough to reach them all.
1000 arms like
Avolokiteshvara...
eyes on every
city seam
and country field.
never alone
never seperate
the air you exhale in China is moved across the world to me,
and i breathe it in.
exhale,
and the chickory weed gets her co2.
chickory weed exhales,
the commuter gets her o2.
did you thank the dandelions this morning?
--janpa
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 11:21:03 EDT
From: AfperryATnospamaol.com
To: lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Ammachi (was Re. meat&sin&laughter)
Message-ID: <15db8ff6.356d80e0ATnospamaol.com>
Dear God blessed Lobster,
In a message dated 28/5/98 11:06:57 am, you wrote:
>A wonderful lady surrounded by idiots (like most
>Gurus). People think by attaching themselves to anothers virtue they will
>make progress. When they find they must make efforts they usually go and
>find something easier to do.
A tree is known by its fruits. The best way to assess any guru is to look
closely at those around him/her. All gurus attract some from the fringes and
those who want an easy ride, but any true guru will recognise these and seek
to change and help them. Even idiots are entitled to spiritual teaching,
aren't they? And a great deal can be achieved by emulation; simply being in
the close proximity of a great soul like Ammachi will have a profound effect
of its own.
Knowing Ammachi and her entourage as I do, I have a healthy respect for many
of her devotees. I also know she is quite a taskmaster with her disciples,
certainly no pushover.
However, I know this is not the case universally, so I accept your
point................
Herewith another 5cl of blessing for you, but don't drink it all at once
Alan
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:10:21 -0400
From: "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: "Anurag Goel" <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>,
"Ann Morrison Fisher" <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: meat&sin&laughter
Message-ID: <01bd8a53$1d802d20$11f4adceATnospamconcentric>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Ann,
We could go all the way to the begining of time like this.
Danijel also snoped my email.
Your quote is not really what as been said, as mine is not.
Personnaly i beleive there is a meanning in every email for me, would the
quotes be out of context or not. It is mine to see. Unless i stick to a part
of me that does not want to change.
Antoine
>>Babaji, Sai Baba, Mahaprabhuji, Madhavananda, Maheswarananda, Lahiri
Mahasaya,
>>Sri Yuktesvar, Yogananda... They also wouldn't have used the words you had
>>used to explain something.
>>
>>Love,
>>Anurag
>
>Anurag!! It's not nice to take out part of a person's words so as to
>distort his meaning - and then criticize the result! In fact, it's
>underhanded and sneaky! Would Babaji, Sai Baba, Mahaprabhuji,
>Madhavananda, Maheswarananda, Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri Yuktesvar, and Yogananda
>have done that?
>
>Below is the original quote so everyone can see what was really said.
>
>Love,
>Ann
>
Adding what Ann did not add, for the fun of it. Sorry for the repetition of
this futility.
------
Danijel wrote:
>True. But we might want to reduce the harm if possible, not justify all of
>our crap all of the time. If you could reduce harm and you didn't it is
>good to feel guilt. It makes you more conscious of your actions, and then
>you do better the next time. Then there is no guilt - no need for it. Guilt
>can be good sometimes. It can be the voice of Self warning and guiding us.
>Indians had to eat buffalos to live. I don't. The logic that applied to
>them doesn't apply to me: I don't _have_ to eat meat to live, I have the
>choice and choose not to. Choosing to eat meat in my position would be
>abuse of trust - sin, if you like. It would mean unnecessary suffering of
>the animals. Keyword: unnecessary.
To Danijel,
Necessity is also a mean of justification for our actions, no?
"Detached service, when there is a detachment in relation to the fruit of
our action, it helps us to free us of from the illusion that we are beings
acting as separated from the Divine".
Govindan, Babaji and 18 siddha kriya yoga tradition
Antoine
----
>>>Antoine:
(so where whent the missing part Ann? you sneaky woman *kiss*)
>>>"Detached service, when there is a detachment in relation to the fruit of
>>>our action, it helps us to free us of from the illusion that we are
beings
>>>acting as separated from the Divine".
>>>Govindan, Babaji and 18 siddha kriya yoga tradition
>>
>>Danijel:
>>Are you serious with this? I have another one, if you sin without
>>attachment you go to hell without it, too. The law of karma applies to you
>>too, you know? You can allow yourself to commit any crime against anyone
if
>>you use your logic - nonduality, detachment. Great. Fuck both then.
>>Those words are not meant to be applied in a manner you apply them.
Babaji,
>>Sai Baba, Mahaprabhuji, Madhavananda, Maheswarananda, Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri
>>Yuktesvar, Yogananda... They were all vegetarians, and STRONGLY advocated
>>vegetarian diet. STRONGLY. If some person here thinks his/her new fuckin'
>>age opinion is more valid, and will have more weight, well I don't think
>>so! Not in my book. It seems to me that you are all advocating "do
whatever
>>pleases you" attitude. Well, it's OK, if it means love & no harm. But it
>>seems to include other things too, of which I disapprove.
>>It is one thing to say "eating meat is not a good thing, but I have to do
>>it because my body will die/not function properly without it, so I have no
>>choice but to accept it with gratitude and devotion", and "eating meat is
>>good because I'm on the top of the food chain" is completely another. The
>>first I accept with love, the second I fuck in the arrogant ass with a
pile
>>driver.
>
>E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
>Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
>
>
>
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