1998/05/20 18:44
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #387
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 387
Today's Topics:
RE: Scientific studies of Kundalin p [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: pain [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
The big one [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
Re: pain [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
Re: The Story of a Smile [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: Subconscious pressure [ valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska. ]
RE: Scientific studies of Kundalin p [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpent ]
Re: Bliss, pain and suffering [ "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> ]
Re: Bliss, pain and suffering [ kristin <kristinATnospamaol.com> ]
Typo Mania! (Was Scientific Studies [ MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com> ]
Sleepy [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:54:13 -0700
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'godlasATnospamarches.uga.edu'" <godlasATnospamarches.uga.edu>,
"'keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu'" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Cc: "'kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com'" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Scientific studies of Kundalin phenomena
Message-ID: <FD905415E0ECD011922300A0C9558C4B230161ATnospamravine.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Alan,
I just put up the only three references I have found in my bibliography
on kundalini at
http://www-cad.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kunda-bib-web.html
<http://www-cad.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kunda-bib-web.html>
look under Contemporary Western Works and Scientific References.
As you can see there is very little published research - at least that I
have found. The reasons I can hazard for this are:
1) Most of those primarily interested in kundalini aren't
interested in science. This is in contrast to TM where Maharishi Mahesh
Yogi and members of the TM movement are very interested in science. The
major kundalini movements - Siddha Yoga Dham of America, 3HO etc. have
never sponsored any research that I am aware of. The Kundalini Research
Foundation aspires to scientific research but does not have any
scientists involved in the organization - that I a aware of.
2) Most of those primarily interested in science aren't interested
in kundalini. As dramatic as the experience of kundalini is , it is
primarily a subjective experience - or at least if there are objective
correlates of the experience , besides heat , they have not been
identified. As the objective advantages of an awakened kundalini have
not been demonstrated (you can follow kundalini-l for a while if you
doubt this :-)), there hasn't been much interested in studying kundalini
just to understand the phenomenon.
If you find any other interesting references please send them my way.
Good luck,
Kurt
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Godlas [SMTP:godlasATnospamarches.uga.edu]
Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 11:12 PM
To: keutzerATnospamSynopsys.COM
Subject: Scientific studies of Kundalin phenomena
Dear Kurt,
Besides the work of Lee Sanella, do you know of any scientific studies
(eg.
brain scans, etc.) of people with Kundalini phenomena ?
Sincereley,
Dr. Alan Godlas
Dept. of Religion
University of Georgia
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:40:12 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: pain
Message-Id: <l03130306b188fcda004bATnospam[126.0.0.108]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>It was then I found my 'witness' state. I remember observing myself and
>thinking, 'it is true...one can go crazy from pain and sufferring'.
>There was this calm aspect of myself that saw the decision that could
>have been made....give in to insanity or stay sane... I chose sanity
>and felt a buffer grow between me and the pain.
>love,
>Susan
And then there is that moment when the pain stops and you are just so
grateful to be alive and not in pain anymore that you pause and just are in
that moment of appreciation and peace and back integrated with your body
again and at that moment there is nothing you lack or desire.
amckeon
(who *really* likes the way she feels when she stops beating her head
against the wall)
Date: 20 May 98 19:36:59 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: The big one
Message-Id: <35632FFC.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hello.
I have not seen much mention of `k explosions' on the list yet. I have
heard about plenty of awakenings but I do not know if people mean by
this an explosion or just the start of things. I have had three main
explosions and would like to know that I'm not the only one!
My first one was like a full-body cleanse, in the style of an express
train, performed by a golden being who merged with me.
My second one was blissful and passionate, with uncountable diversity
and yet unity of energy pockets exploding throughout me, with no sense
of body-shaped consciousness, and I was the universe and there was
only life.
My third one was where I got flattened under the wheels of an express
train, and then whatever was left got up and walked about the house in
a state of absolute selflesness in the sheer /presence/ of beingness.
These all occured during the night, often accompanied by intense dream
imagery, but the last one simply cannot be pinned down. By all intents
and purposes I was more awake than `waking life'.
I would like to know if other people have had these kind of
experiences, and if so some of the details of what it was like for
you. The express train running through and over your body, or
transcendental consciousness for example? Are these big-events
important? I do move on from them and progress can be seen in them,
but I would kind of like to be able to put them into perspective or a
framework with reference to other things of this kind. Where do such
experiences belong on the ladder? And what will happen at the big one?
And indeed, does it get any bigger? I have a feeling within me,
always, that all movement comes from a place of perfection, like
flying a kite from the window of a palace in heaven.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 20 May 98 19:14:43 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: pain
Message-Id: <35632BA3.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> Angelique wrote:
>
> Yet pain is wonderfully focusing, and it is reallydifficult to
> not be in the moment with the pain when it is occurring.. itdemands
> attention like nothing else. When we are hurting is when we aremost
> likely
> to surrender and "Run Home to Mother". Blessed be. Love, Mystress.
Actually the above is a quote from Susun's message, but I must have
missed this the first time.
Talking of pain and how it focuses one.. In the thing event that I
refer to as a full k explosion, I recall that the energies were so
utterly intense that it was sweeping everything away but the very
essense of myself. It was no time to be casually thinking or wondering
about stuff. It was a `hold onto your hats' situation. It was like, if
I were to step to one side I would have perished in the fire. In that
moment of overwhelming activity I simply had to just try and /be/. I
suppose in a way that was part of it.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:22:37 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: The Story of a Smile
Message-Id: <l03130307b18905c819b8ATnospam[126.0.0.108]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Harsha: A spiritual smile can be a powerful gift and a healing force.
That is so true. Thank you for the story, Harsha. It was wonderful. I used
to volunteer as a "reader" for a blind woman at a nursing home. One day
when we were sitting in the lunchroom an aide wheeled up an elderly black
woman in a wheelchair. She was hooked up to an IV, emaciated... yet when I
was introduced to her she held out her hand and as I took it, gave me such
a glorious smile... and said: "I am glad to meet you, and only wish we had
met under better circumstances." No doubt she died soon after, as I never
saw her again. Her name was Ella. She was a model of graciousness I will
never forget.
Thanks for the memory,
amckeon
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:06:34 +0000
From: valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
To: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Subconscious pressure
Message-ID: <3562E361.10E8ATnospamptialaska.net>
<smip>
I believe that God is sensitive, and I believe that sensitivity is
necessary in order to not be seperated from reality. At least this is
how I justify it to myself. It may be true. Any trace of insensitivity
within another person and I know about it immediately. I cannot avoid
it. It throws up emotions of insecurity and hostility within me. One
way to put it could be that I psychically experience the other
person's repressed side.
<snip>
yes.
I worked in the mountains & forests of the Pacific Northwest of the USA
for around 2 years - piling slash & maintaining trails for various
peoples in a contract company; 'Tread For Bread'. We all noticed, even
the big *insensitive bully* guys, when we came down into a city, even as
we approached the suburbs, a VERY notable change in atmospheric
vibration emitted from the machines, the people responding unconsciously
to them, & we would go to this big house in Portland, close all the
drapes & doors, & watch television, maybe drink beers, & hide until we
could get back OUTTA the mucky mire of repressed thoughtforms, before we
became infected.
And I am still like that. Without guards put up psychically, I
empathically tend to absorb people's illnesses & bad feelings like a
trash can.
That's why 'Think Good Thoughts' becomes SO IMPORTANT, even to people
who are unaware of the phenomenon!
valerie
<hiding on an island in alaska>
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:28:26 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: RE: Scientific studies of Kundalin phenomena
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980520142826.008d0100ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:54 PM 20/05/98 -0700, you wrote:
As the objective advantages of an awakened kundalini have
>not been demonstrated (you can follow kundalini-l for a while if you
>doubt this :-)),
Finally I have stopped giggling enough to type..
you are a verrry funny guy, Kurt..
not one for idle flattery, that's fer sure.. LOL!
cackle cackle cackle chuckle snort..
The truth makes you laugh, that's how to recognize it..
then when you really understand it, it makes you cry.
Bipolar disorders and kundalini.. there's the Tao for ya.
Tragicomedy beautiful. My oh my, it let's you know yer alive.
The stuff that art is made of..
I wouldn't trade it for anything,
the beauty keeps me coming back, over and over.
Thankyou for your wisdom, O Sagacious One.
Blessings, and misty laughter that glows with joy.. Mystress.
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:45:06 -0400
From: "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Bliss, pain and suffering
Message-ID: <01bd8451$b3b45800$1ef4adceATnospamconcentric>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Brent,
I try not to make a black and white, or Aristotle, distinction between
"concepts". For may they are more gradation of the same thing. Like for pain
and suffering.
Pain is to the physical body what is suffering to the emotional body or
chaos to the mind. The ego of the physical body, cells, atoms, etc., is much
more difficult to open then that of the emotional body. Thus why we may have
the impression to have more of a choice to end suffering then to end pain.
For me, Antoine, pain is my friend because it pinpoints the limits of my
physical consciousness. As the orgasmic and/or ecstatic state expands it.
When i feel pain, it only means i have not yet made part of my consciousness
what i feel as pain. I create a wall between who i think i am and the pain
left outside of me. Making pain part of me turns the sensation of it to
ecstacy.
>>Overcoming real day to day "emotional" pain brings what i like to call
>>deepness of being in this world.
>
>I thought I had figured out how to deal with physical suffering by
>"desensitization" and with emotional suffering by "contemplation." You
>suggest that there is another way. Please do share
There is an infinity of ways to die to who we think we are. It's the beauty
of this life, to me.
One of them for physical pain is letting your consciousness sink onto the
pain. To become the pain instead of cutting your consciousness from it. But
this is a very long and infinite process. The first step, is yet, IMO,
stepping out of consciousness (ascension) before the descent in the physical
body consciousness can really take place. (That if we think in and up and
down perspective to open ourselves to what Is).
>>"Very seldom does he learn by quiet reminders"... Boy is there wisdom in
>>that one for me.
>
>And people must go through the ups and downs of life, experiencing pleasure
>and suffering again and again until they believe in an integral way that
>experiencing the downs will always hurt?
An example... lest say for headaches. As we reach a deep peace within
ourselves, we can start to feel the headache starting from the very
beginning. We can chose then to continue to listen to our objet of desire
(witch ever it is) and ignore to pay attention to the starting headache.
Only when the butterfly effect will have change on a tornado in the head,
will we start to listen to the message of the headache.
This is a way i read "very seldom does he learn by quiet reminders".
Accepting to follow the wind like a leaf is not always easy as we tend to
beleive we are a jet with it's own reactors to make us move.
>I have trouble relating, but i suspect, that's something that one would
have to experience
> to understand, making verbal description of the experience rather vain. Is
that so?
I think so....
Yet we keep trying.
Blessings
Antoine
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:21:00 EDT
From: kristin <kristinATnospamaol.com>
To: acarreATnospamconcentric.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Bliss, pain and suffering
Message-ID: <7c6d0a61.3563817dATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-05-20 20:46:09 EDT, you write:
An example... lest say for headaches. As we reach a deep peace within
ourselves, we can start to feel the headache starting from the very
beginning. We can chose then to continue to listen to our objet of desire
(witch ever it is) and ignore to pay attention to the starting headache.
Only when the butterfly effect will have change on a tornado in the head,
will we start to listen to the message of the headache.
This is a way i read "very seldom does he learn by quiet reminders".
Accepting to follow the wind like a leaf is not always easy as we tend to
beleive we are a jet with it's own reactors to make us move. >>
Okay, I have another example. I am trying to recover from a major knee surgery
right now. Every day I wake up, and feel the pain in which my knee is giving
me, every step I take, just any time I move. I can decide to let the pain hurt
me all day every day, or I can decide yes, it is there. However, I can do
nothing about the pain, so why should I fight? So, I do not fight it, I accept
it, and go on with my day.
Another one, related with my knee. With this injury it has brought much
suffering to me, I am very active, and with the injury I can not do all my
normal activities; that has brought much pain and suffering to, but I cannot
change it. Yes, my injury hurts, and brings suffering and pain, but what can I
do? Nothing, just accept it. And, in the long run I also end up looking at
everything differently, at some points I look at as suffering and pain, but
most of the time, I try looking at it as something I cannot change, I must
accept, and go on with my life. Much easier to say than to do, but sometimes
you just have to do!
Love,
Kristin
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:32:08 EDT
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
To: serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Typo Mania! (Was Scientific Studies of K-phenomena)
Message-ID: <7d14324b.3563841bATnospamaol.com>
Re: << Those "mad genius" creative types--including Picasso, Hemingway,
Handel, Schubert >>
Michele: Omigod! Typo mania! Not Schubert! I meant Robert SCHUMANN. Hope
he's doing well up above, altho' I suffered much pain in college as a piano
major trying to stretch my poor little hands to several keys beyond an octave
trying to play his far-reaching chords. (Schumann, BTW, crippled HIMSELF
w/some lever kind of device he designed in hopes of widening his own hand span
to play these gargantuan chords he rec'd from the Music of the Spheres that
no mere mortal could ever play.)
Schumann spent some time in an institution before he died by suicide.
P.S. An elaboration on a previous mail. Dr. Gersten did not say that there
is absolutely no such thing as mental illness, but in MANY instances of so-
called mania in particular, in his opinion it's kundalini.
Date: 21 May 98 02:32:44 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Sleepy
Message-Id: <3563915A.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hello.
I would like to inquire about the way that my body goes to sleep.
If I sit in a particular position for a few minutes a part of my body
goes to sleep. Usually this is my legs. It is often places where there
is contact, so can also be my behind. It doesn't often happen further
up the body. If I sit, like I am now, with one leg tucked underneath,
sort of sitting on it,it goes to sleep. I can continue to function
pefectly fine, except that my sleeping leg has absolutely no control.
To touch it is like touching a piece of dead flesh. It feels hard and
the skin of my leg can barely feel any sense that it is being touched.
It is, basically, asleep.
Then the fun part comes when I wake it back up again. This is none too
pleasant. I consider it dangerous to walk on a sleeping leg because
simply all the bones will move to pretty much wherever you put them
and I think that might risk breakage or serious injury. So, when part
of this body is asleep, I will perhaps outstretch a leg or something
to let it wake up. But this is quite annoying how it happens. It
starts to tingle a bit, it starts to vibrate. It is sort of cold,
there is an energy throughout, which quickly intensifies. The /size/
of my leg will shrink. It is like coming down from a higher plane and
becoming closer to physical reality itself. It is like my leg will
shrink is size. If my foot is on the floor I will gradually feel the
bottom of my foot coming up to meet me. The difference is quite
amazing. Once it has resized, the entire limb will begin to `charge
up', the cold energy and increasing vibration. It will intensify and
the limb will be hypersensitive. Quite a contrast to how it was asleep
as if dead. In this mode, the slightest /hint/ of a twitch in ANY
muscle in that limb leads to massive unbearable spasms and
contractions. To even twitch a single muscle, the energies seem to
`home in' on the twitch and amplify it immensely. When this is going
on I simply daren't move. I have to sit still for a few minutes.
Deadly still. Bending a knee while this is gonig out would be
suicidal. The sensitivity to the contraction would be overwhelming. I
have learnt from experience that one does not move when this is
underway!
Eventually it comes around and with some more tingling kind of akin to
pins and needles, but not so sharp, it eventually regains its life.
It's hard to walk on for a little while though because it starts to go
back to sleep again.
I think this is wierd though. I don't know if it happening in other
people. Any part of me that I just sort of forget about just goes to
sleep. But the real strange bit is how it wakes up. It's nothing like
when you wake up in the morning and have immediate full motion. And
what is the energies? It is the astral body realigning itself or
something, or consciousness redistributing itself into the physical
form? I certainly do know that the body has expanded when the leg is
asleep (it's usually a leg), and that it shrinks several inches when
deflating into the physical form - which corresponds with the
regaining of physical sensations. Am I an entity from the astral
plane? Why does my body behave in this way? And why, sitting here now,
do I feel that if this body were to be taken away I would still have
every part of me that I consider to be my identity?
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
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