1998/05/18 14:15
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #378
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 378
Today's Topics:
Re: Kundalini Symptom??? [ MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Ego vs Ego [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: About priorities [ "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net> ]
RE: Ego vs Ego [ "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo. ]
Kundalini: Hot and Cold [ Hofe1 <Hofe1ATnospamaol.com> ]
paul west, how to quieten the ego? [ trexisATnospamjuno.com (Edward Henry Gurd) ]
RE: Ego vs Ego [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: Bliss [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
unsubscribe [ Sunil R Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.v ]
Re: RE: Ego vs Ego [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Re: Bliss [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Bliss [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
Re: Ego vs Ego [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
Enlightenment (again, sorry!) [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be s [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Enlightenment (again, sorry!) [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
for Lobster [ melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu ]
Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be s [ "Biharilal Shah" <kunastroATnospamhotmail. ]
Re: Enlightenment (again, sorry!) [ Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: RE: Ego vs Ego [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:40:54 EDT
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
To: blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Kundalini Symptom???
Message-ID: <bd528b74.355f5967ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-05-17 01:53:29 EDT, you write:
<< "If depression is living in slow motion, mania is fast forward. During the
manic phase of a bipolar disorder, the person is typically overtalkative,
overactive, elated (though easily irritated if crossed), has little need for
sleep, and shows fewer sexual inhibitions. Speech is loud, flighty, and
hard to interpret."
>>
Hi Brent,
Hope you don't think I was labeling YOU as m-d (I try to stay away from
labels, as most are extremely limiting). As you say, in mania, fewer sex
inhibitions, etc. And one aspect to mania is heightened creativity. The
point I was trying to make was, many people, including a spiritual
psychiatrist I've started corresponding w/Dennis Gersten, M.D. (whose
spiritual leader is Sai Baba) now believe there is NO SUCH THING as mental
illness--& that m-d, or bipolar illness, IS kundalini! Those "mad genius"
creative types--including Picasso, Hemingway, Handel, Schubert among many
others--IMHO all were kundalini awakened, NOT m-d, as reported in a lot of
psychiatric literature--& unlike us on the k-list, didn't have a
means/understanding of how to handle that energy positively--Michele
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:47:03 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
Message-ID: <007101bd81ef$ab08f620$d23d5ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Date: Sunday, May 17, 1998 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
I said:
> I am writing. I'm still writing. Writing, writing, writing... Right
now,
> you're reading. Reading, reading, reading...
>
> Looking at your quotes from this perspective could be illuminating.
Then Paul said:
>I have looked at the quotes and I see what might at first appear to be
>a great repetition, but on looking further maybe it is just a
>timelessness.
I wasn't trying to point out a repetition in what you said. I wasn't trying
to show that you were asking the same question again and again. I wasn't
implying anything.
It was to point to a certain state of consciousness where a being is fully
aware of what they were experiencing. Sandeep Chatterjee refers to it as
"Is-ness". When in this state, I tend to be content to experience what I'm
experiencing... A lack of attachment, a lack of suffering, and a lack of
ego seem to be the natural consequences of being in that state. I tend to
experience a mellow happiness when in that state, too. (Not always,
though.) When in that state, one experiences what is happening more fully.
Usually, one savors the experience. Simultaneously, one neither clings to
nor is repulsed by the experience. (If I could figure out how to feel that
way most or all of the time, I'd be a happy, happy, happy man.)
In your original message, you wondered how to "get rid of" the ego. I was
told that egolessness is a natural consequence of that state of
consciousness, and I can see how it would be. (I still have my ego,
though.) I wrote to suggest a direction your research into ego-destruction
could take.
>I have been noticing for some weeks now that I seem to say the same
>thing over and over again. Some people don't like that.
I didn't mind. :) I'm not bothered or annoyed by anything you've written,
so rest easy, my man.
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 00:08:56 -0400
From: "Antoine" <acarreATnospamconcentric.net>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>, "Danijel Turina" <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
Subject: Re: About priorities
Message-ID: <01bd8149$8309dfa0$61f4adceATnospamconcentric>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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:>Danijel Turina wrote:
:Those who take their time never find
:God. Only those who can no longer wait, find Him.
That is true if we stay inside time.
:
:I have read an interesting story about that... a disciple asked his guru
:why can't he see God. Guru said nothing. While they were having a bath in
:the river, guru grabbed the disciple and pushed his head under the water.
:The disciple was struggling for air, and when he was almost dead, guru
:pulled him out, and asked him: "how great was your desire for air down
:there?". "Enormous!!", answered the disciple, breathing deeply. "When your
:desire for God becomes as great, you will without any doubt find Him", the
:guru answered.
I like this story. For some they may be a need to go underwater for a long
time to find out about their desire to breath. Yet, others may realize it
without needing to go under water.
Antoine
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 04:02:47 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo.infase.es>
To: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Ego vs Ego
Message-ID: <000001bd8209$6fa2d1e0$4cf14dc3ATnospamjb>
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Paul West wrote:
<big snip>
> I notice that the word enlightenment has a tremendous air of fantasy
> about it.
Not only that, there have been many jokes about it so maybe it is the right
time to say something more serious. One of the phases one will sooner or
later experience with K. is that it seems, as if the whole world is on fire.
The impression is so strong, because on closing the eyes nothing is seen, as
opposed to the inner visions. The color of the fire is bright pink to red
and it really looks like the entire universe is enlightened by this fire. In
literature I only found one reference to this phase but I forgot where - it
could be Rosicrucians. Anyway, I know of no other phase of K. rising that
could more appropriately be called enlightened.
<snip>
> And what do you suppose will happen if you were to slip and fall back
> into such habits? What if after all your years of striving and
> accomplishig you go out one day and do something evil? What will it
> have all been worth? All that effort to escape from the escape.
Striving and accomplishing aren't the right thing to do - here insight is
required too . In the long run, all tendencies will eventually be rooted out
completely but this is no linear process. It is practical to divide
tendencies into two categories: those that make you do something (like
over-eating) and those that prevent it (healthy body is a great vessel to
reach the "other shore"). If the prevention-tendency is weakened / uprooted
first, there you go! Unfulfilled desires can even be more harmful. So it is
not wasted time to descend to the "cellar of your house" (this is the
standard way of dreaming about the unconscious) and find out about its
contents. This issue is serious - just think of all the poor monks and
yogis, who tried to get rid of their sexuality (by horrible means), instead
of finding out the cause of the disturbance. The worst tendency of all is
fear - That which survives the grave has no fear. Fear alone will always
cause a fall back as a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy. If in one's worldly
life something goes wrong it can mean the end of something (like loosing
job). If in one's spiritual life something goes wrong, it is easily
forgotten that this is just one's opinion about the event. The proper
interpretation is, that something has been overlooked and when this is
adjusted, progress will continue. Call it the grace of God/Goddess or the
compassion of Buddha, fact is that one gets as many "re-examinations" as
needed. Never despair/give up.
Jan
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:14:29 EDT
From: Hofe1 <Hofe1ATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Kundalini: Hot and Cold
Message-ID: <2083218e.355fa797ATnospamaol.com>
Dear Kundalites:
I now work as a clerk for a day program for the mentally ill. As to my
Kundalini rushes, sometimes the energy is super cold and sometimes it is hot.
Sometimes it goes down my legs and tickles the soles of my feet. Other times
it goes up and down the trunk of my body. Other times it flowes thru my arms
to my hands. Other times I direct the energy to an organ in my body that needs
healing. It kind of goes in circles around that organ. Also I am training
myself in sacred sex. I remember a time in meditation that was
multiorgasmic(nonejaculatory), but it could not be counted on to happen again.
And it was frustrating to meditate just to get that one thing, which is why I
am trying to cultivate that ability now. Don't mean to upset the prudish, but
I'm only human. Someday I would like to heal people, but I am not ready for
that yet. Still I feel compassion for those people where I work. I don't like
to see anyone suffer.
Hi, that's me.
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:02:02 +0000
From: trexisATnospamjuno.com (Edward Henry Gurd)
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: paul west, how to quieten the ego?
Message-ID: <19980518.000203.6622.1.trexisATnospamjuno.com>
A solace in nature for multiple days is the best suggestion I have.
Take a 2 gallon jug of water and a blanket/sleepingbag into some
place in nature and stay by yourself for two days. No talking, no
reading, no doing anything. I do this at a waterfall in the mountains
each year for a weekend and it's not until I get back that I realize
how much more peaceful and quiet I am inside. Ego is something
mainly used or "needed" in social situations. Be by yourself and
the spasaming ego muscle is allowed to relax. If you could handle
doing it for six months, that ego muscle could suffer some atrophy.
_____
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:20:11 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospaminfase.es>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: RE: Ego vs Ego
Message-Id: <l03010d02b185715c05e2ATnospam[207.71.50.60]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospaminfase.es> wrote:
>>Paul West wrote:
>><big snip>
>>
>> I notice that the word enlightenment has a tremendous air of fantasy
>> about it.
>
>Not only that, there have been many jokes about it so maybe it is the right
>time to say something more serious. One of the phases one will sooner or
>later experience with K. is that it seems, as if the whole world is on fire.
>The impression is so strong, because on closing the eyes nothing is seen, as
>opposed to the inner visions. The color of the fire is bright pink to red
>and it really looks like the entire universe is enlightened by this fire. In
>literature I only found one reference to this phase but I forgot where - it
>could be Rosicrucians.
Muktananda talks about this in his autobiography, _Play of Consciousness_.
In Book Two, Chapter Two, he tells of seeing flames everywhere: "The whole
universe was on fire." Then he felt "a searing pain" in muladhara, root
center. This was a lengthy vision, which is why I'm not giving it all.
Later a red light appeared and he saw his body burning in the red flames,
although he felt heat only on the inside, not on the outside.. This
happened a number of times, and he seems to have been working on emotions,
"impure thoughts, negativities." Later, he says, he realized that it was
all part of a process pertaining to Shaktipat and that all the experiences
were gifts of his guru. The right light became a red aura of his own size
and shape that permeated his body. He relates the red to the gross
physical body. "When meditation on the red light begins, one has various
experiences each day, and through these experiences one's concentration
steadily increases and the nadis become purified."
>Anyway, I know of no other phase of K. rising that
>could more appropriately be called enlightened.
This came near the beginning of his sadhana, so most of his K. experience
came after that.
Love,
Ann
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 04:54:39 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Bliss
Message-Id: <l03010d00b1855e5c8efaATnospam[207.71.50.60]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>Ann:
>> When I went to do my K. meditation, Shakti used to say, "It's recess time!
>> Recess from the world!"
>
>Paul:
>What is Shakti?
Ann:
Danijel answered that question recently on K-list:
>Shakti is a sanskrt word that is most accurately translated as "energy".
>But that is energy in the deep metaphysical way of looking at it - the
>power of manifestation, the power of life. Personified as female, Goddess.
>Dynamic, moving Shakti as opposed to static, transcendental Shiva, the
>unmanifested Absolute. Tantra teaches about individual being's Kundalini as
>Shakti, and jivatman (individualized Self) as Shiva. The goal is seen as
>joining Shiva and Shakti, energy of manifestation = life, with
>transcedental and unmanifested Self.
>Paul:
>I stumbled upon that term when reading about Sai Baba
>just recently.. that it is half of what is incarnate within him or
>something.?
>
Ann:
Sai Baba has said:
>Consider the meaning of the name Sai Baba. Sa means 'Divine'; ai or ayi
>means 'mother', and Baba means 'father'. The name indicates the divine
>mother and father, just as Sambasiva, which also means the divine mother and
>father. Your physical parents exhibit Love with a dose of selfishness; but,
>this Sai "mother and father" showers affection or reprimands only to lead
>you toward victory in the struggle for self-realization.
>
>For this Sai has come in order to achieve the supreme task of uniting the
>entire mankind, as one family through the bond of brotherhood, of affirming
>and illumining the Atmic reality of each being in order to reveal the Divine
>that is the basis on which the entire cosmos rests, and of instructing all to
>recognize the common divine heritage that binds man to man, so that man can
>rid himself of the animal, and rise into the Divine, which is his goal.
>
>I am the embodiment of divine love; love is my instrument. There is no
>creature without love; the lowest loves itself, at least. And its self is
>God. ...
>
>I had to tell you so much about my truth, for I desire that you should
>contemplate on this and derive joy therefrom, so that you may be inspired to
>observe the disciplines laid down by me and progress toward the goal of
>self-realization, the realization of the Sai that shines in your hearts.
So Sai Baba says he is divine mother and father, Shakti and Shiva (and he
has used these names more specifically elsewhere). He also says that you
will come to realize the divine mother and father, Shakti and Shiva, within
yourself.
Why does he speak of "affirming and illumining the Atmic reality of each
being in order to reveal the Divine"? Just as on the causal level one
perceives and can use electric blue vajra energy, on the atmic level one
finds black and white polarities, Shiva/Shakti archetypes.
Danijel wrote previously on K-list (and I know you don't like the Sanskrit
words, Paul, but when there are no words for things in English, we have to
use the words that are available):
>>On atmic level, Shiva and Shakti both are made,
>>completely, of what I could call savikalpa samadhi matter. No way I could
>>describe that in different terms! A glimpse of the atmic body, any part of
>>it, reveals incredible things. Compared to that, there is a distinct
>>feeling of the completely different rules from the lower planes - I think
>>that is a completely different level than the lower prakrti (buddhic,
>>causal and lower), like there is a major leap from prana to vajra (you'll
>>have that once you have cleared visuddha wall and internalized your body on
>>vajra energy level). ... On atmic, it feels like they [inner and outer
>>realities] are joined at savikalpa, and it is saguna in a way, there is a
>>distinct feeling of gentle human aspects, but completely divine in their
>>nature and infinitely brilliant in every aspect. I think descriptions of
>>Shiva and Shakti in the scriptures, all the symbols, were descriptions of
>>that vision.
This means that when you reach atmic level you will find that you are the
polarities, you are Shiva/Shakti. If you want to know what that means for
a human being, look to Sai Baba. That is why he is called an avatar.
He has said that he would help anyone who calls on him, that love is the
way to reach him. And he is very easy to reach.
Love,
Ann
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:44:42 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: Sunil R Peswani <peswaniATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
To: kundalini-l-requestATnospamexecpc.com
Cc: kundalini-l <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980518173854.31206A-100000ATnospamgiaspn01.vsnl.net.in>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear friends,
It is good-bye for the time being.
If something comes up, I can come back.
good luck
ram peswani...egoist ram....shahanshah....nothing (This is the time of
dark night of soul).......???????.........bodhisattva
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:14:42 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: annfisherATnospamstic.net, janbarenATnospaminfase.es
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: RE: Ego vs Ego
Message-ID: <3311d975.35603443ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/18/1998, 1:21:08 AM, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
<<This came near the beginning of his sadhana, so most of his K. experience
came after that.
Love,
Ann>>
Harsha: Hopefully you are not implying that Jan is just starting to have his
experiences now:--). Jan is not a beginner.
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:37:25 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: annfisherATnospamstic.net, paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Bliss
Message-ID: <4f1077dc.35603996ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/18/1998, 5:54:57 AM, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
apparently quoting Danijel <<On atmic level, Shiva and Shakti both are made,
>>completely, of what I could call savikalpa samadhi matter. No way I could
>>describe that in different terms!>>
Harsha: "Shiva and Shakti are both made of Savikalpa Samadhi Matter!!!???"
This is an entirely new conception:--)). Does Danijel have any clue as to
what these terms really mean and how they are used in the classical Yogic and
Tantric literature.
Date: 18 May 98 14:11:17 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Bliss
Message-Id: <35604185.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Ann:
> Danijel wrote previously on K-list (and I know you don't like the Sanskrit
> words, Paul, but when there are no words for things in English, we have to
> use the words that are available):
I have probably overreacted about that.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:44:50 EDT
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es, paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
Message-ID: <95858c4a.35607393ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-05-17 23:02:25 EDT, janbarenATnospaminfase.es writes:
<< One of the phases one will sooner or
later experience with K. >>
Dear Jan,
Do you think "phases" are too individual to list, or would you care to help
out those who don't know what's coming next!
Love, Hillary
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:48:38 EDT
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Enlightenment (again, sorry!)
Message-ID: <48bd8ccb.35607477ATnospamaol.com>
Dear list,
Just came across an interesting quote in Kundalini Awakening by John Selby.
Quoting the Buddha: "As long as people desire Enlightenment and grasp after
it, it means that delusion is still with them; therefore, those who are
following the way to Enlightenment must not grasp after it, and if they gain
Enlightenment they must not linger in it."
Any comments?
Love, Hillary
Love, Hillary
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:08:57 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be sorry!)
Message-ID: <9a669019.3560793bATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/18/1998, 1:49:23 PM, DruoutATnospamaol.com writes:
<<Just came across an interesting quote in Kundalini Awakening by John Selby.
Quoting the Buddha: "As long as people desire Enlightenment and grasp after
it, it means that delusion is still with them; therefore, those who are
following the way to Enlightenment must not grasp after it, and if they gain
Enlightenment they must not linger in it."
Any comments?>>
Harsha: As long as the context of "wanting" is there, even "wanting
Enlightenment", the delusion persists. After "gaining It", the question of
"lingering in It" cannot arise. Nothing is outside of it. What is
Enlightenment? It is only Who You Are. How can You linger outside your own
Self?
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:32:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (again, sorry!)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980518133004.26572A-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 18 May 1998, Druout wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> Just came across an interesting quote in Kundalini Awakening by John Selby.
>
> Quoting the Buddha: "As long as people desire Enlightenment and grasp after
> it, it means that delusion is still with them; therefore, those who are
> following the way to Enlightenment must not grasp after it, and if they gain
> Enlightenment they must not linger in it."
my teacher warned once about kensho, basically 'Dont get stuck on it". in
some sense, having a kensho is dangerous because one tends to grasp at it
and want to repeat it. Its way wonderful, everything is pristine and clear
and there is no suffering, only just this. but then mind starts to define
and the orginal clarity is soon only a shadow of a memory. to grasp after
a ghost is the danger. it puts one miles away from where they should be.
'like just like this' is not 'just like this'
a take on it from this lifestream :)
--janpa
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:45:18 -0400
From: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: for Lobster
Message-Id: <l03130303b18631c75711ATnospam[198.28.38.107]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sorry list! I lost his private address . . .
>Hi Lobster!
>
>I'm creating a new web site and part of it will have a selection of quotes
>that change on reload. I'd like to make one of the quotes part of Song of
>Lobster if that is ok. (Beautiful poem!) You can go see the quote pg
>(unfinished as it is) at:
>
>http://infoest.sbc.edu/yrofthesnake/random.html
>
>I have your quote linked to your frontpage. If you don't want me to use it,
>let me know & I'll take it out.
>
>Snap, Crackle, Pop!
--Signalfire
This mellow thighed
snake just put
my spine out of place ...
---- slanted David Bowie
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:00:43 PDT
From: "Biharilal Shah" <kunastroATnospamhotmail.com>
To: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be sorry!)
Message-ID: <19980518190044.20175.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
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>From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
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>Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:08:57 EDT
>To: DruoutATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
>
>Subject: Re: Enlightenment (Please don't be sorry!)
>
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>In a message dated 5/18/1998, 1:49:23 PM, DruoutATnospamaol.com writes:
><<Just came across an interesting quote in Kundalini Awakening by John
Selby.
>
>Quoting the Buddha: "As long as people desire Enlightenment and grasp
after
>it, it means that delusion is still with them; therefore, those who are
>following the way to Enlightenment must not grasp after it, and if they
gain
>Enlightenment they must not linger in it."
>
>Any comments?>>
>
>Harsha: As long as the context of "wanting" is there, even "wanting
>Enlightenment", the delusion persists. After "gaining It", the question
of
>"lingering in It" cannot arise. Nothing is outside of it. What is
>Enlightenment? It is only Who You Are. How can You linger outside your
own
>Self?
>Biharilal:
>When you are doubtless about unknown or say when you have no questions
about unknown to be solved,you are in one way enlightened.
>
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:05:47 EDT
From: Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>
To: DruoutATnospamaol.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (again, sorry!)
Message-ID: <89230f1.3560868cATnospamaol.com>
Hillary writes:
......Quoting the Buddha: "As long as people desire Enlightenment and grasp
after it, it means that delusion is still with them; therefore, those who are
following the way to Enlightenment must not grasp after it, and if they gain
Enlightenment they must not linger in it."
Any comments?
The ego works in such a way of "seek but do not find".
It doesn't matter what you want or desire -- enlightenment, a car, a
relationship, a job... as long as you are *wanting* it, this tells your
subconscious mind that you don't have it. And what you don't have, you must
find... you must get it. And as long as you are trying to *get it*, this
places you in the future, and the future is not where you are at.
Beginners luck is an example of staying in the moment, not desiring anything,
and being completely surprised by their win. They didn't want anything in
particular. Just playing for the fun of it.
Your mind is like a little child -- it takes things very literally. Because
your mind doesn't know the difference between what's real or imagined, you can
imagine you are already *tHere*. (Might as well.... on some level, you
already are).
xxxtg
* If I can't give it, I don't need it *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:29:26 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: RE: Ego vs Ego
Message-Id: <l03010d03b186496697f2ATnospam[207.71.50.43]>
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>In a message dated 5/18/1998, 1:21:08 AM, annfisherATnospamstic.net writes:
><<This came near the beginning of his sadhana, so most of his K. experience
>came after that.
>
>Love,
>Ann>>
>Harsha: Hopefully you are not implying that Jan is just starting to have his
>experiences now:--). Jan is not a beginner.
Ann:
Hopefully you are not implying that Muktananda was not enlightened at that
point. When his entire universe was enlightened by the red fire, how could
we not call him enlightened?
And yeah, I'm about as serious as I think Jan was.
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