1998/05/17 09:22
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #376
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 376
Today's Topics:
Re: Kundalini Symptom??? [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: Ego vs Ego [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Any help on gnosticism? [ Stephen Trever <stephen.treverATnospamyale ]
Re: Ego vs Ego [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
Re: About priories [ "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com> ]
Re: Any help on gnosticism? [ Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic ]
RE: Ego vs Ego [ "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo. ]
help 4 joss stick [ "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com> ]
Re: Kumbhaka (was RE: Milarepa and p [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Ego vs Ego [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
Re: Ego vs Ego [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 00:49:41 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "MMeyers541" <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Kundalini Symptom???
Message-ID: <000d01bd8157$c17d63c0$0e195ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
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-----Original Message-----
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamAOL.COM>
To: Brent L Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 4:13 PM
Subject: Kundalini Symptom???
I said:
> "an intense libidinous source of energy", and that phrase applies to what
> I've experienced. Does part of your experience sound like mine? It might
> be Kundalini at work.
Then Michele said:
> In the psychiatric literature, that is a symptom of manic-
> depression. However, in Darrell Irving's "Serpent of Fire," that is a
symptom
> of kundalini. BTW, Irving also says that both manic-depression AND
> schizophrenia psychosis ARE kundalini symptoms that can be observed--and
> overcome. A very validating book for those who have been saddled w/the
label
> "mentally ill."
When I took Psych 101 and they were covering manic depression, I once again
got into that mood. My psych book had something to say about manic
depression:
"If depression is living in slow motion, mania is fast forward. During the
manic phase of a bipolar disorder, the person is typically overtalkative,
overactive, elated (though easily irritated if crossed), has little need for
sleep, and shows fewer sexual inhibitions. Speech is loud, flighty, and
hard to interpret."
And later says:
"In milder forms, however, the energy and free-flowing thinking of mania can
fuel creativity. Bipolar disorder is especially common among poets,
artists, and playwrights. Handel composed his nearly 4-hour-long _Messiah_
during 3 weeks of intense, creative energy."
Though I can be a procrastinator, I don't think I'm depressed. The loud,
flighty, and hard to interpret speech isn't something I've experienced. I'm
not easily irritated if crossed when in the mood that I've experienced. And
I don't go back and forth between that state and a depressed state. These
things suggest that what I've experienced is something different than
bipolar disorder and, if what I've experienced is Kundalini-related, that
bipolar isn't a Kundalini symptom, but is merely similar to one of K's
symptoms.
But then, what do I know? Only what I've experienced, and I haven't had a
full K-awakening.
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:44:27 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
Message-ID: <003a01bd815f$a57f46e0$0e195ea0ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu.tc.umn.eduumn.edu>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Date: Saturday, May 16, 1998 8:53 PM
Subject: Ego vs Ego
>Hello.
Hi again.
Here's a selection of quotes from your original letter:
>I have been wondering lately what can be done to quiten my ego. I am
>wondering what the effect would be of turning the ego against itself.
>I have been reading of Sai Baba just
>lately and I notice...
> I have read also of something
>Jesus said about that he was the devil and that he would turn the
>devil against the devil in order to overcome it or something.
>I am wondering then what would happen if ego were to turn on itself.
>I wonder if ego is the same, or if indeed that is
>ego-based.
>Most of the time I am wondering how I can become more confident, as I
>feel kind of unconfident and small.
> I think that in truth, in reality, I am /over/confident, and that
> this is egotism.
>So I continue to wonder...
I feel I must disclaim what I write. I'm no enlightened sage, and I still
suffer on a near-daily basis. What I say might not even be the best way to
remove the ego. I don't know everything, but I do know some things. And
what I say is likely to help in one way or another. And so, I begin my
response:
For whatever reason, self-awareness can make suffering instantaneously
vanish. I hear that ego also washes away when you bathe in self-awareness
for long enough. Self-awareness works something like this:
I am writing. I'm still writing. Writing, writing, writing... Right now,
you're reading. Reading, reading, reading...
Looking at your quotes from this perspective could be illuminating.
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 04:34:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Trever <stephen.treverATnospamyale.edu>
To: Brent Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
cc: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>,
Kundalini - L <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Any help on gnosticism?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.94.980517040856.27948A-100000ATnospammercury.cis.yale.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I have been lurking for some time, just waiting for some opppurtunity. I
am in the midst of writing a paper on the bridal chamber in some gnostic
texts.
It's not manifestly realted to kundalini, but I'm willing to bet there is
a latent connection
"I am invisible within the thinking of the invisible"
"I am disclosedwithin the immeasurable inneffables.
"I am incomprehensible, existing within the incomprehensable.
and moving within every creature.
It is I who am the life of my afterthought;
who exist among all powers and eternal movements;
among invisible lights and among rulers, the angels,
the [deamons], all souls that dwell in tartarus and all material souls
Who exist among those who have come into existance:
who move among all, and who am strong among all.
who travel uprightly;
and awaken those who are asleep.
It is I who am vision for those who dwell in sleep
It it I who am invisible within the entirety;
It is I who consider the hidden, being acquainted with the entirety,
and who exist within it
I am the most innumerable of all beings.
"First Thought in Three Forms" from Bently Layton's Gnostic Scripures
Anyway, if any one is interested inthis subject, let me know. If anyone
has any ideas about th use of the Bridal chamber in the Gospell of
Phillip, it would be greatly appreciated. I've enjoyed the wisdom thus
far! keep it commin
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 03:44:18 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
Message-Id: <l03010d07b18453d03e97ATnospam[207.71.51.211]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Paul!
I think you've got a misunderstanding of what your ego is. Your real ego
isn't bad or good, any more than your shoulder-blade or your aorta is bad
or good. It's something you use for incarnating, manifesting, in this
world.
The trouble is that this basic instrument is covered and layered and packed
with dirt, crap, shit, mud, and dust. All kinds of silly and ugly stuff in
that mess. So what you want to do is get it off!
When people talk about crushing the ego, it doesn't mean destroying that
basic instrument. It means knocking the crap loose, prying off the older,
hardened stuff if necessary, crushing the junk so it can be eliminated from
your systems.
While you're doing it, you may feel so rotten you think you're dying. But
you're not - just getting really clean and clear. When it's over, you'll
feel so wonderful you'll wish you'd done it sooner!
I recommend up-stream kriya because it works, it's safe, and it's fast.
>What if I were to start saying to myself that I have a really big ego,
>and allow myself to excite about it being so huge and so selfish.
Yeah, pile on some more crap!!
>What if I actively participate in forming a relationship with it, to
>help it perform better. What if I love it?
Okay, then how about cleaning it up?
>Does that not cancel the
>ego?
Just leaves it clear and transparent, a much, much better tool.
>
>Most of the time I am wondering how I can become more confident, as I
>feel kind of unconfident and small. This is ego. I think that in
>truth, in reality, I am /over/confident, and that this is egotism.
Under-confident, over-confident? Get down to the basic you, using a clean,
clear ego, and then you'll know what you are.
Love,
Ann
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:00:31 +0100
From: "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: "Kundalini Mailing List" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: About priories
Message-ID: <000701bd80ab$c7f30f40$b44995c1ATnospamdefault>
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><< One of my fave authors is Stuart Wilde. He sez.. "Life is not meant to
be
> a struggle.. if you are struggling you are off your path." He recommends
> seeking the paths of least resistance to go with the flow.. if it ain't
> flowing, it needs a change. All that in a tiny thin book 3 inches square..
Hi Dear Friends,
I have even smaller books that say
"It is a universal law:
all growth comes up against resistence"
Of course if you just grow where you will - you end up . . .
Well there is a Sufi Story about a bramble that lived in a ruined house.
Soon it took over the whole house and people forgot there was ever a
dwelling and because people did not curb its growth it eventually took over
the whole country . . .
>Michele: Very similar to another thin book, Deepak Chopra's "Seven
Spiritual
>Laws of Success"--only he calls it the Law of Least Effort. Works for me!
Once upon a time there was a person who wanted to be happy. When ever
anything was pointed out to them they just said "I don't wish to know that."
Slowly they learnt only to look at things they liked - it worked for them.
Of course they were too lazy to look at themselves. To self indulgent to
make efforts. They are what is known as "spiritual"?
Que?
the lawless
Lobster
Flowing with the Go
Lobster Web Pages
http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/park/gcn23/
YinYana Buddhism, Alchemy, Sufism, Time Travel
Esoteric Satanism and String
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 05:37:24 -0500
From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
To: Stephen Trever <stephen.treverATnospamyale.edu>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Any help on gnosticism?
Message-Id: <l03010d0bb1846dbf568eATnospam[207.71.51.211]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Stephen Trever <stephen.treverATnospamyale.edu> wrote:
>"First Thought in Three Forms" from Bently Layton's Gnostic Scripures
>Anyway, if any one is interested inthis subject, let me know. If anyone
>has any ideas about th use of the Bridal chamber in the Gospell of
>Phillip, it would be greatly appreciated.
Stephen, is Layton's book ABOUT these scriptures, or does he give them in
full? I've seen only the Gospel of Thomas in print; if other Gnostic
gospels are in print, I'd like to know about it.
Love,
Ann
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:14:01 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo.infase.es>
To: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Ego vs Ego
Message-ID: <000001bd818d$47728020$60f14dc3ATnospamjb>
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Paul West wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I have been wondering lately what can be done to quiten my ego. I am
> wondering what the effect would be of turning the ego against itself.
<big snip>
What to think of a man who is leaving his wife and children without support,
starting the life of a hermit to realize the Self ? It would be very selfish
indeed. It shows, that in a way everything can be selfish. A method for
judgment could be the question whether or not others will suffer from one's
thoughts or actions. The practical way is to gain the insight that without
your bad ego-habits, you would never have arrived at your present situation
(having the opportunity to attain enlightenment). Fighting ego is like
fighting your shadow - there can't be a winner and it is rather tiring. The
method of a saint is to replace bad habits by good habits; this takes an
awful lot of time. As life is short it is better to have K. burn out all
impurities. With the assistance of meditation, it will lead to states of
samadhi. There are many of these states and the joy/bliss/ecstasy that is
experienced (even in the "lowest" of them) will make all previous
'ego-pleasure' very puny. Because of this, the bad habits of the "old me"
will loose their power. As K. tends to integrate and harmonize all one's
faculties, there is no need to create entities like ego, lower self, higher
self, soul, etc., as it confuses matters where they can be very simple.
Jan
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:54:48 +0100
From: "Lobster" <lobsterATnospamdial.pipex.com>
To: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>,
"Stephen Trever" <stephen.treverATnospamyale.edu>
Subject: help 4 joss stick
Message-ID: <005001bd80c5$ff5dec60$b44995c1ATnospamdefault>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
>"I am invisible within the thinking of the invisible"
>"I am disclosedwithin the immeasurable inneffables.
>"I am incomprehensible, existing within the incomprehensable.
>and moving within every creature.
>It is I who am the life of my afterthought;
> who exist among all powers and eternal movements;
>among invisible lights and among rulers, the angels,
>the [deamons], all souls that dwell in tartarus and all material souls
>Who exist among those who have come into existance:
>who move among all, and who am strong among all.
>who travel uprightly;
>and awaken those who are asleep.
>It is I who am vision for those who dwell in sleep
>It it I who am invisible within the entirety;
>It is I who consider the hidden, being acquainted with the entirety,
>and who exist within it
>I am the most innumerable of all beings.
Dear Friends, Kundalites, Gnostics and irrelevant worshippers of the
irreverrant,
Hey - that's me!
The indivisible invisible thought of no thinking
undisclosed and measured as superficially "speaking" the unspoken
comprehensible to the comprehending
the moving Lobster creature
Me who is the death of those after thought
Non existent power, an infernal movement
amongst darkness beyond measure
dwelling nowhere, without residence
Non-existent, gone, gone most completely gone
Still and meek
crooked still
sleeping with the awakened
It is I who am a Vision for those not dwelling on awakening
It is I AM entirely
without existence
the One and Only
Lobster
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:43:38 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: janbarenATnospaminfase.es, DruoutATnospamaol.com, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Kumbhaka (was RE: Milarepa and pranayama?)
Message-ID: <9c2cfe41.355ef79bATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/16/1998 4:43:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
janbarenATnospaminfase.es writes:
<< With both amazement and amusement I was reading the breath-retention times.
When I had a little (self-styled) practice of pranayama, the first thing I
observed was, that the breath-retention times could be more than doubled, if
I started by saturating the blood completely with oxygen through conscious
hyper-ventilation to the point where dizziness occurs. >>
Harsha: Yes. Saturating the blood and the tissues with oxygen through deep
breathing and Bhastrika is one of the many techniques and exercises in the
overall system of Pranayama to extend breath retention. Dizziness should be
avoided. Signs of discomfort indicate that one is not practicing properly.
Experienced Yogis do not recommend extending breath retention times without
guidance.
Date: 17 May 98 16:57:29 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
Message-Id: <355F056F.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
David:
> The world, made to hide the error of believing we escaped God,through the
> eyes of Spirit,
> becomes a tool, a blessing, a healing
> in awakening.
> This is a simple shift in how we choose to perceive.
> Nothing more.
I like the way you put that. I can relate to the `matter of factness'
of it. The way it is almost mechanical, like the flipping of a switch,
the reallocating of resources.
I have this view of reality that all things, even ego things or evil
people, all have a place, as they are, and the only way to cope with
this is to be uninvolved and detatched - transcendent of it. I see
that /of course/ people's lives will end up the way they are given the
fact that they have made those particular choices. I don't think, and
this is what I /actually/ live in my life not what I speculate, .. I
don't think there is such a thing as unfairness. The sheer delicacy of
transcendence is that a person could be immediately and totally
`reallocated' to another reality without any need to `get over'
hurdles or to conquer things or to suffer things. I don't think
suffering is necessary. It's common sense really. I wish people
wouldn't make such an issue about everything. People are being very
irresposible in the ways they suggest to me and others that there is a
problem in the first place.
People ask question but in those questions there is a suggestion, an
expectaton. When for example my mother might come to me and ask "why"
something or other, I just don't know what to say. I can't answer. In
the same breath as her questioning there is the suggestion that
something is wrong and needs fixing. I hate that. I don't mean
malicefully or degradingly, but I just reject that strongly. Comes
accross as stubbornness I think. But people make such an issue of
/everything/ and they want to know how the issue can be solved, but
they are intent on suggesting it's still an issue, and the answer they
expect from you must not tread on the feet of their expectaton.
Sometimes I just have to be vague, to nod my head or shake it or shrug
my shoulders. Is that not the fitting response to such an unreal
question? It is of course possible to set someone straight, but if
they don't want it who am I to force? I don't like force. Again I am
stubborn. But it can tear one apart sometimes when you know something
more true but cannot and should not give it because it would not be
received properly. I think I have a tendency to want to keep people
happy, to give them what they want, but if I observe that what they're
asking for is something unreal I just feel obliged to give them an
unreal response. And when they see this, with all their expectation
and suggestion of things being wrong, they think that there is
something wrong with me, so they start to comfort me, as if I am
unhappy. They see that I am sensitive, and in the mirror of myself
they see their own pre-suggested issues and suggestions of trouble.
But even so the fact is that I don't really need comforting. But I
would not tell them that. My tongue becomes tempered with a shyness
from the fact that it is neither necessary or asked for.
> Overconfidence is pretend confidence to cover up the feeling of being
> deprived.
Maybe our definitions of overconfidence differ. There are some people
who are outgoing and assertive and people refer to this as confidence.
But such people are not necessarily living with much certainty in
their lives, with much wisdom, or with much spirituality. THere can be
overconfidence along those lines. For me overconfidence is the
reaction that underconfidence performs without realising it. It's
isn't a true confidence, it's a lashing out.
> Ego would love for you to try to figure it out for all eternity because it
> knows
> this cannot be done.
Maybe I know this already.
> But children tire of toys and move on..
The toys can come back. Test after test after test. The sustainence of
divinity is neverending.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: 17 May 98 15:28:25 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Ego vs Ego
Message-Id: <355F0219.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Ann Morrison Fisher:
> Under-confident, over-confident? Get down to the basic you, using a clean,
> clear ego, and then you'll know what you are.
For a couple of years up till sort of recently I spent a tremendous
amount of time wondering about the ironies of life, the paradoxes, the
way things are one polarity and yet the other at the same time. Like
you say, it is strange but when a person is under-confident they are
simultaneously over-confident. There becomes that split, that
seperation, and the coin then has a two-facedness. I have spent
considerable time inquiring into the ironies of life.
What I was saying though is that I /seem/ to have a greater tendency
to associate myself with the under-confident than the over-confident.
Or _so it would seem_! The under-confident me longs to be bigger, more
confident, to have what the over-confident people have - and the
reason they look overconfident is because it's a projection of the
side of me I am seperated from. But at the same time, in that
under-confidence, there is an arrogance, an authoritarianism, that is
trying /too/ hard to get things right. And if you look hard enough,
you actually end up seeing that both of these polarities are actually
only one thing.. that both faces of the illusion are in actual fact
only one face. I wonder, if at some time, one might realise that in
reality illusion is one, hell is one, everything is one.
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
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