1998/05/13 01:09
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #366
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 366
Today's Topics:
Re: Re: Re: Milarepa and pranayama? [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #365 [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
less than usual [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re: less than usual [ Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: less than usual [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
Re: less than usual/reply [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Re: Re: Milarepa and pranayama? [ Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.te ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Milarepa and pranaya [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Milarepa and pranayama? [ Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.te ]
Re: To Activate or not to activate [ Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iis ]
Re: Submissions Wanted (Was Re: Trut [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com> ]
Recently... [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: less than usual/reply [ "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com> ]
electricity :) [ "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.or ]
RE: Non-denominational kundalini?-ge [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
RE: Recently... [ "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo. ]
Re: electricity :) [ "loba kola" <lobakolaATnospamcsrlink.net> ]
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:27:12 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Milarepa and pranayama?
Message-ID: <e2192ddc.35585c41ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/11/1998, 11:11:48 AM, sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr writes:
<<>Harsha: Milarepa actually practiced certain breathing methods to control
the
>breath.
Dainijel: Milarepa also used black magic to cause havoc. :)
Harsha: That was early in his life. It has nothing to do with his practice of
Pranayama later on in a spiritual context.
Danijel:: I had a very negative experience with it - actually, as I wrote once
before, I bounced between the extremes with it - sometimes I was full of
energy, my consciousness was brilliant and deep etc; and sometimes I was
depressed and my mind was completely blurred and darkened.....
Harsha: Given your mind/body reaction to pranayama, it is a good thing that
you changed techniques which suit your constitution. I practiced Pranayama
since childhood and loved it. Even when I practiced highly advanced methods, I
rarely had a negative reaction. Other people have had positive experiences
with Pranayama in the spiritual context (including Milarepa:--). Breathing
exercises and Pranayama are not essential for Self-Realization and I do not
recommend them for everyone. However, when done properly such exercises can
lead to a wholesome mental outlook and stability and prepare one for higher
spiritual experiences. It is always helpful to have good guidance in the
actual practice from an experienced Yogi. This you might not have had.
Prananyama has an important place in the Yogic culture and various Shakti
traditions.
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:40:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
cc: kundalini-l-dATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #365
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980512093926.22472B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Moody's got me too! and some old Genesis tracks when Peter Gabriel was in
the group.
"Timothy leary's dead....no no no no, he's outside...looking in...."
:)
--janpa
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:19:33 -0500
From: "John Heaton" <cttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com>
To: "Angela Mary Broad" <ambroadATnospamacs.ucalgary.ca>,
"Ann Morrison Fisher" <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Happiness
Message-Id: <11105820306904ATnospamspringnet1.com>
John:
You betcha! ......Moody Blues "In Search of the Lost Chord"..(I have
actually had to pull off to the side of the road listening to this one..in
particular 'Melancholy Man')........ Pink Floyd "Delicate Sounds of
Thunder"-->'Shine On You Crazy Diamond' and 'Learning to Fly'...Beatles
"Yesterday", "Fool On The Hill", "Elanor Rigby"....just to name a few.
There's tons more.
> Try some music by YES, especially UNION and the song IT CAN HAPPEN on
> 90125...
Okay. :-)
>
> No it doesn't work for everyone, maybe I'm just excited to have a new
> favorite group and connect really well with thier music....!!!!!!
>
> LOVE AND LIGHT
> Angie
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:47:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: less than usual
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980512094133.22472C-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
i was supposed to go to Madison Wisconsin this week to see the Dalai Lama,
and end the week with a Chenrezi initiation.
Karma had other ideas and i'm covering for another person at work who is
in Mexico. Then i found out i am on call this weekend too.
Worked myself into a good funk for a few seconds. (dilbert self-pity
moment)
good patience oppurtunity right???
less than usual,
how grasping rears her head...
how strong desire is sometimes.
Through her crazy glasses, bodhicitta is no where to be found...
maitri,
--janpa
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:07:24 EDT
From: Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>
To: dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: less than usual
Message-ID: <cc671b68.355865adATnospamaol.com>
dorf01ATnospammail.win.org writes:
<< Karma had other ideas and i'm covering for another person at work who is
in Mexico. Then i found out i am on call this weekend too. Worked myself
into a good funk for a few seconds. (dilbert self-pity moment)
good patience oppurtunity right??? >>
You could say that on one hand. On the other hand, it is also an opportunity
to see that there are no karmic happenings going on.... only judgements and/or
perceptions of the situation. What has no cause, has no effects.
xxxtg
* Sometimes you have to look reality in the eye and deny it *
http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html <~~~~ on the web now!
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:14:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: Imtgxxx <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>
cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: less than usual
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980512101404.25912B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 12 May 1998, Imtgxxx wrote:
> You could say that on one hand. On the other hand, it is also an opportunity
> to see that there are no karmic happenings going on.... only judgements and/or
> perceptions of the situation. What has no cause, has no effects.
seeing into sunyata is an effective way of dealing with things, but....
i aint there yet :)
still making karma...
--janpa
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:17:34 PDT
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com, dorf01ATnospammail.win.org
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: less than usual/reply
Message-ID: <19980512161735.28121.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:14:52 -0500 (CDT)
>From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
>
>
>On Tue, 12 May 1998, Imtgxxx wrote:
>
>> You could say that on one hand. On the other hand, it is also an
opportunity
>> to see that there are no karmic happenings going on.... only
judgements and/or
>> perceptions of the situation. What has no cause, has no effects.
>
>seeing into sunyata is an effective way of dealing with things, but....
>
>i aint there yet :)
>
>still making karma...
>
>--janpa
>
>
Dear Deborah,
Thanks for the humble truth. In trying not to 'pretend' or deny
an honest emotional reaction of disappointment..you DO serve the TRUTH.
Who would not rather be with the Dalai Lama than at work, anyway? teegee
is also correct that in the grand scheme of it all, this detail may not
matter much at all. Having just had to renounce myself..a 3 week
meditation stay with Thich Nhat Hanh and the nuns and monks from Plum
Village there, too...well, I can sympathize. Maybe our "intention" will
be honored somehow...?? In the meantime, <<HUGS>>.
Still having "parallel awarenesses" myself,
Glo
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:04:06 +0200
From: Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Milarepa and pranayama?
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980512190406.00a5e130ATnospampop.tel.hr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:27 1998.05.12 EDT, Harsha wrote:
>In a message dated 5/11/1998, 11:11:48 AM, sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr writes:
>
><<>Harsha: Milarepa actually practiced certain breathing methods to control
>the
>>breath.
>
>Dainijel: Milarepa also used black magic to cause havoc. :)
>
>Harsha: That was early in his life. It has nothing to do with his
practice of
>Pranayama later on in a spiritual context.
I was just saying it to note that not all the things Milarepa did were...
err... enlightening? ;) You can put it the other way round, too: the fact
that someone like Milarepa, with his devotion and commitment, needed so
much time and work to attain realization with that technique, would suggest
that the technique is practically worthless to everybody else. :) If the
technique was good, he would become enlightened in a few months or so. I
would even say that he would be enlightened faster if he stared at a nail
on a wall all that time. :)))
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:25:24 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Milarepa and pranayama?
Message-ID: <23cfdfdd.35588605ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/12/1998, 1:10:11 PM, sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr writes:
<< You can put it the other way round, too: the fact
that someone like Milarepa, with his devotion and commitment, needed so
much time and work to attain realization with that technique, would suggest
that the technique is practically worthless to everybody else. :). If the
technique was good, he would become enlightened in a few months or so. I
would even say that he would be enlightened faster if he stared at a nail
on a wall all that time. :)))
>>
Harsha: Pranayama is actually a system. It is made up of a variety of
techniques. Perhaps as you gain more background in these matters, you can
appreciate them in more depth. I am glad you have found a "technique" that you
feel works for you. At least you have that. Be careful though. When all you
have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail:--)).
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:33:16 +0200
From: Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Milarepa and pranayama?
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980512203316.0098ab90ATnospampop.tel.hr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 13:25 1998.05.12 EDT, Harsha wrote:
>In a message dated 5/12/1998, 1:10:11 PM, sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr writes:
>
><< You can put it the other way round, too: the fact
>that someone like Milarepa, with his devotion and commitment, needed so
>much time and work to attain realization with that technique, would suggest
>that the technique is practically worthless to everybody else. :). If the
>technique was good, he would become enlightened in a few months or so. I
>would even say that he would be enlightened faster if he stared at a nail
>on a wall all that time. :)))
>>>
>Harsha: Pranayama is actually a system. It is made up of a variety of
>techniques. Perhaps as you gain more background in these matters, you can
>appreciate them in more depth. I am glad you have found a "technique" that
you
>feel works for you. At least you have that. Be careful though. When all you
>have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail:--)).
I don't see how it relates to my comment. ad1, I said pranayama is unsafe,
and ad2 I said it isn't efficient enough. I was referring to the kumbhaka
techniques, the breath retension. I know there are other sorts of pranayama
and I know some of them are very good, but there are much better things and
I use them all the time. You don't have to agree, of course. :)
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:43:04 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
To: Joseph Miller <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
cc: anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.93.980511234122.5036A-100000ATnospamBhaskara>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Joe it seems interesting.
Anurag
On Mon, 11 May 1998, Joseph Miller wrote:
> anurag wrote:
> I think pranayama will help in losing weight.
> -----------------
> anurag,
>
> I think you're right and I believe I remember reading in a text on
> pranayama about that, but it has been years and I don't recall the
> details.
>
> You may find it very interesting that here in the US there is a woman
> who is selling a program on one of those 30 minute "infomercials" we
> have developed into a TV staple. She is selling it as a way to become
> fit and "loose inches" as well as a few pounds all, "without exercise",
> by breathing as she teaches on her video. I haven't shelled out the
> money for it but what she loosely describes on the ads for the video are
> pranayama techniques. According to her you can "look and feel better in
> a month" if you give her program a try for 10 minutes at a time two or
> three times a day.
>
> Namaste,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:25:49 -0600
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Submissions Wanted (Was Re: Truth and Love-Self-Realization)
Message-Id: <l03130305b17e96168d0cATnospam[126.0.0.108]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I was in NY last weekend and there was a group of people dressed like
>Tibetan monks, that were protesting in the streets, against the Dalai
>Lama, saying "Dalai Lama, please give us religious freedom"
<snip>
>Lissette
In the May 11, 1998 issue of *Newsweek* there is a story they called "A
Scratch in the Teflon Lama". The short version is that, to quote the above
source:
[The Dali Lama has strongly discouraged worship of Dorje Shugden, a
traditional protector god of the Geluk sect, to which he himself belongs.
The Dali Lama once worshipped Shugden too, but that, he said in an
interview last week, "was when I was young and ignorant." After studying
the 300-year-old Shugden tradition -- and after consulting the state oracle
-- he concluded that Shugden is really an "evil spirit." He now refuses his
sacred initiations to those who worship Shugden, thus alienating some
15,000 mostly Western converts. Tensions are high. Last year three members
of the Dalai Lama's inner circle were ritually murdered by unknown
assailants. Although there is no evidence of complicity by the dissidents,
the incident has stiffened the Dalai Lama's resolve. "We should practice
the Dharma (the Buddha's teachings)," he declared last week, "not spirit
worship."]
And so it goes,
amckeon
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:27:25 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: oreaATnospamerols.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <95796e5c.3558dadeATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/11/1998 7:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, oreaATnospamerols.com
writes:
<< Harsha, who wrote these marvelous words? They literally gave me
goosebumps.
Love, Orea
Harsha1MTM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/10/1998, 7:02:35 PM, magneagaATnospammonet.no writes:
> <<THE SACRED HUM:
>
> I toiled and toiled and then I found
> the source of all eternal sound.>>
>
> Harsha:
> And saw that I am always free, never bound
> alive in the thunder of the soundless sound.
>
> Sorry, could not resist! This poetry always overcomes me --Harsha
>>
Harsha: Hi Orea. I wrote these two lines after seeing the first two lines
posted by Magneaga which are apparently from a song. I have used the phrase
"thunder of the soundless sound" before in my poetry to express the nature of
the Self. For more goosebumps and Shakti thrills see my poetry on the Goddess
(The Vision of the Naked Goddess, Ode to Tara, and For the Goddess of Love
Supreme, and also True Love Divine Love)
http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/poetry.html
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:18:32 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com>
To: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>, kl List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID: <3558E6D5.65317955ATnospamerols.com>
Thanks, Harsha! It was indeed "the thunder of the soundless sound" that got
to me. I'm bookmarking your poetry to return to again and again.
Love, Orea
Harsha1MTM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/11/1998 7:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, oreaATnospamerols.com
> writes:
>
> << Harsha, who wrote these marvelous words? They literally gave me
> goosebumps.
>
> Love, Orea
>
> Harsha1MTM wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 5/10/1998, 7:02:35 PM, magneagaATnospammonet.no writes:
> > <<THE SACRED HUM:
> >
> > I toiled and toiled and then I found
> > the source of all eternal sound.>>
> >
> > Harsha:
> > And saw that I am always free, never bound
> > alive in the thunder of the soundless sound.
> >
> > Sorry, could not resist! This poetry always overcomes me --Harsha
> >>
> Harsha: Hi Orea. I wrote these two lines after seeing the first two lines
> posted by Magneaga which are apparently from a song. I have used the phrase
> "thunder of the soundless sound" before in my poetry to express the nature of
> the Self. For more goosebumps and Shakti thrills see my poetry on the Goddess
> (The Vision of the Naked Goddess, Ode to Tara, and For the Goddess of Love
> Supreme, and also True Love Divine Love)
>
> http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/poetry.html
Date: 13 May 98 02:39:34 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Recently...
Message-Id: <35590751.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hello.
Recently I have been having a lot of `k' activity. Heat in my spine,
twitches and energy vibrations and pulses on top of my head, pulses in
my heart, etc. I have been somewhat in a state of serious
contemplation for a few weeks now since leaving my job. I have been
having to think hard about things, and this seems to be a reflection
of increased k activity. My original awakening occured at such a time.
A few days ago it was sunny, for a change. I sat without motive
looking out of my bedroom window at the lilac blossom on a tree up the
road, some 50-60 metres away. It was a little windy at the time and
and I was just wondering about the blossom. I have been sort of
keeping track of its progress, it's colour has lightened over time. I
looked and watched and I felt joyful to be seeing this and as I
watched the wind took a large handful of blossom petals and escorted
them through the air and over the front face of a wooden fence about
10 metres nearer, settling on the path. I thought how wonderful it
would be for a person to be walking by at the time and how joyful it
would all be for the blossom to shower the person. I had like a
passion in my heart and my eyes were wide and eager, and I really felt
that I loved what I was seeing.
That instant a single whitish-pink petal `materialised' above my
windowsill right in front of me and settled. I couldn't believe it. It
was as though I had asked for it and received it. My window was not
open, and this is what surprised me more - there was no way it could
have got in. So I was a little wary at first, so I watched to see if
any of the petals were making it far enough on the wind to reach my
house. None seemed anywhere near close enough, but I figured it might
be possible. But my window was not open and it literally came from
nowhere right in front of my eyes. Considering how elated I had felt
to watch and wonder about the shower of petals, it just seemed to be
right that it was a `miracle'. And this wouldn't be the first time
that I have been a part of something like this. I don't mean to make
it sound like something particularly special, it's actually quite sort
of, well, how can I put it... normal.
Although this is only a side topic, and not really a k thing, maybe it
would be interesting to ask if anyone has experienced k-related
materialisations. ??
Love you all,
--
Paul.
IRC: #amiga, Dalnet: #blitz
WWW: http://www.stationone.demon.co.uk
E-M: paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:54:15 -0400
From: "Orea de Sa' Hana" <oreaATnospamerols.com>
To: kl List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: less than usual/reply
Message-ID: <3558FD46.CF23D503ATnospamerols.com>
I had a similar experience last weekend. Dhenish was doing a really cool
retreat that my sister was attending, and Iwas thousands of miles away. I
felt like there was this great party going on and I wasn't invited! Dhenish
assured me that I will be given all I need, and yeah, I knew that, but it
surely sounded like fun.
But, on the bright side, I have had a couple of interesting experiences these
past few days right here in the privacy of my own home (no, not THAT kind!) so
I have nothing really to complain about at all...I feel like an ungrateful wretch.
Blessings,
Orea
Gloria Lee wrote:
>
> >Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:14:52 -0500 (CDT)
> >From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 12 May 1998, Imtgxxx wrote:
> >
> >> You could say that on one hand. On the other hand, it is also an
> opportunity
> >> to see that there are no karmic happenings going on.... only
> judgements and/or
> >> perceptions of the situation. What has no cause, has no effects.
> >
> >seeing into sunyata is an effective way of dealing with things, but....
> >
> >i aint there yet :)
> >
> >still making karma...
> >
> >--janpa
> >
> >
> Dear Deborah,
> Thanks for the humble truth. In trying not to 'pretend' or deny
> an honest emotional reaction of disappointment..you DO serve the TRUTH.
> Who would not rather be with the Dalai Lama than at work, anyway? teegee
> is also correct that in the grand scheme of it all, this detail may not
> matter much at all. Having just had to renounce myself..a 3 week
> meditation stay with Thich Nhat Hanh and the nuns and monks from Plum
> Village there, too...well, I can sympathize. Maybe our "intention" will
> be honored somehow...?? In the meantime, <<HUGS>>.
>
> Still having "parallel awarenesses" myself,
> Glo
>
> ______________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:04:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: electricity :)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980512210224.17328B-100000ATnospamwinc0>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
meditating,
noticed lightning around my fingertips.
noticed the mind noticing the lightning around my fingertips
noticd the emotion rising at the distracted mind.
"Hey You!"
just lightning around fingertips
ommanipadmehung....
--janpa
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:37:43 -0700
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'Imtgxxx'" <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Cc: "'keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu'" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: RE: Non-denominational kundalini?-getting longer
Message-ID: <01BD7DDD.6F10AC50.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
Kurt writes:
<< Getting back to your point that: `` theory when the student is ready,
the
teacher will appear...'' In my experience awareness of the need of a
guide
is a key part of readiness. At least it was in my case. >>
TG says:
Kurt.... This makes sense. I never could understand why this *theory*
didn't
work when I needed a guide so much back when my K was flaring. Of course,
it
never occurred to me to ask for one that knew what was happening to me and
to
guide me in it, nor was I aware of the need of guidance in that area - just
thought I went bonkerz. I did ask for help in that area and was sent many
healers which helped enormously. (they could heal, but could not explain
what
was happening)
KK:
For many years I thought that I was doing OK on the spiritual guide front.
Confronted with ``who is your teacher'' I could rattle off quite a number
of guides from various traditions who had taken the time to instruct and
guide me. At one point I was practicing Zen pretty actively (Rohatsu
Sesshins and all that). I had found a Soto Zen Community that I really
liked and a teacher that had a wonderful perspective. But my kundalini kept
getting increasingly intense and at one point I asked myself ``just who are
you kidding?'' Kundalini was the force that was defining my path and as
wonderful as Dogen and Soto Zen was, or Vipassanna and Theravada Buddhist
scripture, or debating Madhyamaka with Gelugpa Geshes or studying Vedantic
Mahavakyas - none of that was relating to my primary experience.
So at that point I had to admit to myself that I wasn't getting the
guidance I most needed and acknowledge that lack. It was painful to my
heart as well as my ego. But I just faced that fact and the emptiness of
it. Then, less than a month later I met Swami Shivom Tirth. Spending a week
in a small informal retreat with him I just had to cry as I realized how
much fear, uncertainty,and doubt (FUD) I had been suppressing regarding my
kundalini experiences. I also realized that I had never in my life had the
full confidence to fully surrender shakti due to the intensity of kriyas
that were manifesting in me. When I was able to finally do so - the release
was immense.
In short, I think that as long as I kept telling myself that I had enough
guidance, the guidance I needed never appeared. Now what was the upshot of
the guidance?: ``Now, you are established on the path of shaktopaya, you
need only surrender to shakti - she is doing your sadhana now.'' Sure, I
could have told myself that - I did so many times. But somehow I still had
doubts and fears.
So I shouldn't say you have to have a guide. I would just say don't kid
yourself. If deep within yourself you feel that you are on the right path
and shakti is naturally evolving in the right direction then that is fine.
If deep inside yourself you still have doubts and fears then I would
acknowledge that and pray deeply for someone who can guide you - to
ultimately be your own guide.
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:42:39 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" <janbarenATnospamcorreo.infase.es>
To: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: Recently...
Message-ID: <000001bd7e29$8f23f820$4df14dc3ATnospamjb>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul wrote:
<big snip>
> Although this is only a side topic, and not really a k thing, maybe it
> would be interesting to ask if anyone has experienced k-related
> materialisations. ??
On several occasions I experienced materializations, but strictly speaking,
they were tele-portations. Most of the time K. caused me to be in a very
joyous mood but as I had no idea what was causing that, I used to think a
lot about possible causes. As a result I was rather forgetful, like not
taking the keys of my apartment with me when leaving or I forgot my
cigarettes or the lighter. On missing my cigarettes, I checked this to the
point of emptying the pockets of my cloths completely. When, absorbed in joy
and thoughts, a little later I habitually put my hands into the pocket where
the cigarettes ought to be, they were there! In the altered state of mind I
noticed it, but never questioned or investigated how this was possible - I
just was quite happy with it. As it happened several times with various
objects, it is impossible to forget.
Jan
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 01:09:18 -0400
From: "loba kola" <lobakolaATnospamcsrlink.net>
To: "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01ATnospammail.win.org>, <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: electricity :)
Message-ID: <0cdb01bd7e2d$48f53720$865cadd1ATnospamrocksoup>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
hehehe and i just get blue smoke around mine. i must be broke
loba kola
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