1998/05/07 22:06
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #360
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 360
Today's Topics:
Hello [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: Non-denominational kundalini?-me [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
RE: RE: kundalini rising (was RE: 3 [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
RE: kundalini rising (was RE: 3 time [ Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley ]
Re: Non-denominational kundalini?-Th [ Harshadeva <HarshadevaATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: To Activate or not to activate [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: To Activate or not to activate ( [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: To Activate or not to activate [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: Happiness [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: To Activate or not to activate ( [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Re: I'm new and I try to introduce m [ hnielsenATnospamms-dan.dk (by way of Mystr ]
Re: kundalini power [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpent ]
Re: Happiness [ "Resmer, Mathew" <Mathew.ResmerATnospamdst ]
Date: 8 May 98 00:50:45 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Hello
Message-Id: <355256E5.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi.
Not so many days ago I became unsubscribed from the list kind of by
accident, but I went along with it. I'm like that. But I have noticed
the absence of an outlet for some thing I have wanted to share or ask.
So I've decided to return. I hope this doesn't offend anyone.
I have noticed myself getting progressively more and more serious just
lately. Perhaps a way to describe it is meaningfulness. I started to
realise I was being very pretentious and that I kept `acting'. So I've
just sort of stopped doing that and I feel rather more real.
Earlier today I was sitting here and suddenly the past seemed to
dissapear. I can't describe it any other way really. I was doing
something and then I was doing something else and it was like there
was no real memory of what I had done prior, and as every moment
passed it seemed like the very first moment, always. This didn't last
all that long but it was very peculiar I thought. I saw for myself
that thought is time, and that thought is the past, as it simple
stopped and with it dissapeared precicely the thing that I refer to as
the past. I don't think this has happened to me before.
There was also a time this arvo when I sat slouched in a strange
position, my chin close to my chest looking downwards, and I seemed to
see myself. There was suddenly this clarity which was very hard to
maintain, in which I felt very awake, like I had always been sleepy.
I didn't realise how close we are to the present. I don't mean that
I'm super-enlightened or anything, just that the present rather
reaches out to touch us wherever we are.
--
Paul.
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:21:33 -0700
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: "keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu" <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
CC: "'Imtgxxx'" <ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Non-denominational kundalini?-medium long
Message-ID: <35525E1D.811D7858ATnospamtransbay.net>
> 2) most of those people prefer it that way.
>If rather than point 2) people feel:
> 2b) most of those people are awaiting formal guidance or are preparing
>themselves for guidance.
>that would be a different view.
I fall into the category of 2c, neither seeking a guide nor refusing guidance.
I've been following a spiritual path that did not involve kundalini. Now that
an awakening has occurred, I have been modifying my practice and waiting for
teachings that specifically involve kundalini.
I neither sought for nor am adverse to the effects of kundalini. It's
happening, I go with it and if something becomes too troubling I will seek
further guidance.
> Getting back to your point that: `` theory when the student is ready, the
> teacher will
> appear...'' In my experience awareness of the need of a guide is a key part
> of readiness. At least it was in my case.
As for whether or not I need a guide, sometimes I feel I do, sometimes I feel
I don't... Just opinions, not truth. Doesn't matter anyway, I don't have one
right now but am open to one appearing. What happens will happen, whether I
mess around with things or not.
I would be far more troubled by awakened people that lack a practice or a
spiritual path or view kundalini as an end in itself. To be given a gift like
kundalini awakening and to use it for tricks instead of self-realization is a
waste. Far too few people use their capacity for spiritual understanding, but
when you have such a great tool for learning, to waste it seems tragic.
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:35:11 -0700
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'Harsha1MTM'" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>,
"janbarenATnospaminfase.es"
<janbarenATnospaminfase.es>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
<kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: RE: kundalini rising (was RE: 3 times K. from 1 to 7)
Message-ID: <01BD79EF.40CDDDA0.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
In a message dated 4/30/1998, 11:01:23 PM, janbarenATnospaminfase.es writes:
<<Apart from some vague statements about K. "disappearing into the void"
(Tibetan source) I never came across anything about the fate of K.
According
to the dictum: "what has a beginning, must have an end" the awareness of
the
nadis should have an end.
>>
Harsha: Indeed, what has a beginning must have an end. No experience, no
matter how grand or profound, can ever escape that fate. It is declared by
Sages and scriptures that, That which is Eternal has no beginning or an
end.
This statement is not in conflict or contradictory to the fact of Shakti
manifestations and experiences in the domain of relative consciousness. It
simply indicates that Being is the foundation of all becoming. Being
permeates all becoming, while remaining always independent of it in its
original and transcendental nature.
KK: There are two big questions here:
1) Is Being more fundamental than vibration (spanda). This one was debated
at length in the philosophical schools of the Shaivism of Kashmir.
Ironically it was the Buddhists who led me to understand what they were
getting at. If Being is transcendental then it can neither affect or be
affected. Thus you can posit as many Beings as you want and it doesn't
matter -because according to this view they are in a parallel universe.
Nothing cannot influence without being influenced. If Being influences,
then it must be influenced in the process. Everything is interdependent. In
this viewpoint the experience of Being as ``transcendental peace'' is just
an incomplete experience of it. As the experience clarifies then Being will
be seen not to be transcendental but a great vibrancy pervading all.
2) Is any experience alone sufficient to truly awaken us or do all
experiences have an end? Here there are many views. Some Buddhist and
Hindu schools argue that no mere experience of anything could be sufficient
to bring enlightenment. There must be a cognitive change as well. Others
argue that there must be a cognitive change, but experience itself brings
the cognitive change - just as tasting honey conveys all that there is to
know about honey, tasting supreme bliss tells you all that you need to know
about the union of bliss and emptiness (Buddhist terminology) or
sat-chit-ananda (Hindu).
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:38:40 -0700
From: Kurt Keutzer <keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
To: "'Jan Barendrecht'" <janbarenATnospaminfase.es>,
"kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: kundalini rising (was RE: 3 times K. from 1 to 7)
Message-ID: <01BD79EF.BDABCEE0.keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu>
> KK: I think that getting a common sense of kundalini operating within the
> various cakras is a good aim of this group. In my limited experience, if
> kundalini is at the sahasrara for even a second then one will experience
> the entire universe as merged in one's own omnipresent awareness. Is that
> your experience?
Jan:
Yes, it was, but what struck me most was the disappearance of
individuality.
KK: Perhaps one could speak of it as a broadening of individuality. We all
love mom. Mom is very close to us, but compared to mom our innermost
awareness is immeasurably more intimate. When kundalini reaches the
sahasrara every atom of the universe has that same intimacy. We don't need
to reflect on it or get worked up about it - it is simply apparent.
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:41:38 EDT
From: Harshadeva <HarshadevaATnospamaol.com>
To: aird.houseATnospamzetnet.co.uk, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Non-denominational kundalini?-The Third Eye
Message-ID: <1cb22af7.355270e3ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 5/7/1998 7:15:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
aird.houseATnospamzetnet.co.uk writes:
<< I believe strongly in the
divinty within all regardless of the path chosen. In the short time I
have been reading the letters on this list I have been impressed by
the divirsity of natures / personality etc and have learned from many
of you. I am surprised that the third eye opening has not been
specifically mentioned as I asumed that it was an integral pert of
becoming "Realised". >>
Harsha: Dear Chris, aspirants on path of Kundalini Yoga have many different
"enlightening" experiences. The Shakti literature describes some of them.
For example, Milarepa's experience of Kundalini rising to the Sahasarar and
then descending down even to the toes has been noted in his biography.
Concentration on the third eye and related practices and experiences are also
noted in various yogic traditions. In this experience, the Shakti can rise up
like white lightening, split in two bolts in the back of the head (medulla
oblongata), with both bolts going rapidly to separate sideways, making half a
circle until they meet again at the forehead and one enters the space of the
third eye. In pictures, they show Ajna Chakra as having two petals. The
petals simply indicate the two Nadis that meet at the forehead. Kundalini
Yoga is a path of rich experiences of a wide variety. Because you mentioned
the third eye and seemed curious, I wanted to comment. Concentration on the
third eye is good. Enlightening experiences are no doubt helpful. But
Realization does not depend on them. Self It Self is the Ultimate Eye.
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:16:21 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: <onarresATnospaminreach.com>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate
Message-Id: <3552757e2a5a004ATnospammhub3.tc.umn.edu>
> From: onarresATnospaminreach.com
> To: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
> Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
> Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 3:06 PM
>
> To blame weight gain on an open mouth is not funny, especially when you
eat
> so little and still gain weight... For me, I could eat my dinner and my
> husbands and not gain any weight before K - now I eat very little. Why?
> Thyroid problems, what else! And Brentmeister - speak for yourself, if
you
> need far less food, eat less, however if your metabolism has sped up -
good
> for you, some others are not that fortunate.
Ok, so the volume of food you eat isn't the only factor affecting weight...
Why does everyone take my comment so personally?
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:05:59 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: <amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate (aye there's the rub)
Message-Id: <3552757f2a5a006ATnospammhub3.tc.umn.edu>
amc:
> Just when I think I'm going to be able to keep my mouth shut for
awhile...
Me:
> tons of yoga-types fast and eat one meal a day or eat only fruit....
amc:
> Gee, do you think lifestyle has anything to do with it? On the one hand
we
> have someone who's life is devoted to meditation, etc. On the other we
have
> the 40 hours a week at a stressful/boring job, family responsibilities,
etc.
That's why I said "yoga-types", silly.
amc:
> Seriously, though, during my highest point of K activity/manifestation I
> was simply not interested in food. My boyfriend of the time and other
> members of my family had to force me to eat. I was also not working or
> going to school or doing housework or much of anything else. Existence
> alone was involving enough.
I'm curious. How was your health while your fam was forcing you to eat?
Not eating at all can either be unhealthy or just fine (starvation or
fasting). Which do you think was the case?
amc:
> But I had two small children that needed me. It was too soon to "bliss
out"
> of existence. Now that I am "normal" and my K is back down to a mere
pilot
> light glow, my old appetites are back.
Ok. You could try Weight Watchers (my dad had success with them), but I
don't think they can give you psychic powers. :P
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:13:51 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: <amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate
Message-Id: <3552757c2a5a002ATnospammhub3.tc.umn.edu>
> From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
> To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
> Cc: Brent Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
> Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate
> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 3:44 PM
>
> The Brentmeister wrote:
>
> >For weight loss, you ever consider just not eating? I'm pretty sure that
> >people >need far less food than most people think they need.
>
> Whoa! I never thought of that! I'm gonna try that today (slapping
> forehead). Jeez, what would I do without your advice, Brenterino? You are
> my new guru, fer shure ;-P~
Now, now... I wasn't trying to imply that you hadn't figured out the
correlation between eating and getting fat. It's just that I know it is
possible to drastically reduce the volume of the food most people eat
without harming the eater's health or depriving the eater of any pleasure.
One doesn't "need" much food. And hunger can be treated like any other
desire and dealt with just like lust, greed, discontent with one's
circumstances, and all the other results of attachment, aversion, and
delusion (note the subtle reference to Buddhism).
Sorry if I incorrectly assumed you were interested in self-improvement. :P
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:58:04 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Happiness
Message-Id: <355275812a5a008ATnospammhub3.tc.umn.edu>
Some chick:
> My reason to be happy is that I am happy beyond all reason. Holly
Sandeep:
> Isn't that a reason?
> Any reason no matter what, would make the happiness incomplete,
> dependent, not total, not whole, not unconditional not perpetual.
> The reason becomes more important in the equation and hence the
> rat race to protect the reason, to defend it at all cost, the focus is
> on the reason rather than happiness.
Gloria Lee:
> Hey Sandeep....pssst..isn't saying ANY reason also a kind of reason??
> Which is first what you point out to Holly...(except being happy BEYOND
> reason does imply without ANY reason)...so then YOU go on to describe
> how it must be unconditional and perpetual...well, aren't those
> REASONS??? Can I not be supremely happy .. but say it IS fleeting?? A
> cherry blossom just sends me to ecstasy, tho I know it will not last...
> so what?? You are getting just as ATTACHED to your "reasoning" ..so its
> STILL a kind of reason. The ONLY reason permitted for happiness must be
> now unconditional, perpetual, and total. Is that it?? Sweety, I do see
> your point you aretrying to make here, but do you see mine?? It seems
> the attachment is really the problem..not the duration. Enjoy, let go...
>
> Not that interested in perpetual sameness, anyway.
1) For clarification: How does "happy beyond reason" differ from "happy
without reason"?
2) "Unconditional" and "perpetual" are attributes, not reasons.
3) True that lack of attachment, not duration, is what really matters.
But what are you left with when you remove attachment? (Unconditional
happiness?) Could you two be saying the same thing two different ways and
battling over word choice? Or maybe you are saying totally different
things.
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 20:07:25 -0700
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: To Activate or not to activate (aye there's the rub)
Message-ID: <31900FED.4EEA1AF2ATnospamtransbay.net>
> > tons of yoga-types fast and eat one meal a day or eat only fruit....
>
> amc:
>
> > Gee, do you think lifestyle has anything to do with it? On the one hand
> we
> > have someone who's life is devoted to meditation, etc. On the other we
> have
> > the 40 hours a week at a stressful/boring job, family responsibilities,
> etc.
Well, I'm currently going through my spring fast and I go to work every day to
a pretty stressful job. It's a matter of setting priorities. There is no
rule that you have to be an ascetic and live in caves to pursue spirituality.
It may be easier though.
Dan M.
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:29:24 -0700
From: hnielsenATnospamms-dan.dk (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>)
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: I'm new and I try to introduce myself
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980507182924.008fd100ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Greetings,
I new at this list. My name is Henrik and I am from Denmark - I'm 20 and a
scorpion.
How I become aware of kundalini is long story - but I'll try to do it
shortly:
My farther had always been very interested in everything which was
spiritual when I was a child he learned me to auto-suggest. My father had
in the 62-68 hypnotized a medium and he wrote all what the spirit said
which is about 1500 pages on computer. My farther died seven months ago of
cancer, I my interest accelerated enormous - maybe because of his death and
that I now had sparetime. I began to read in his books about dreams,
hypnosis, astrology and so on - but still on very low spiritual level. My
interest for drugs was also increased very much - not because of a
depression, it was just very interesting. The infomations on drugs lead me
to Carlos Castanedas books, at first I only read because of the drugs, but
later on in the book I was intriqued by dreams and other consciusnesses.
One week after I was finished reading all his books I saw a poster, it was
a free lecture on dreams. I thought what a coincidence - maybe a little
sign - this lesson whas not about interpreting dreams it was about astral
projection and lucid dreams. The movement which gave this lesson said if
anyone was interested in this they held a free course in which you had no
commitment at all - you just had to be interested in selfexploration. From
this course I have learned much about dimensions, astral projections,
chemistry and similar but still I have only been there for two months now.
What this movement say about kundalini is - they haven't really talked
about it yet. But from what I understand they say when kundalini rises from
the base chakra to the next chakra and so on. But you have to create enough
energy to do so and the way you have to raise is through meditation and
elimanition of psychological defects e.g. anger, lust and so on. This
should raise kundalini afterwards we should transform this energy and
create a astral body, mental body, kausal body and so on.
If anybody have heard similar things I would be very happy to hear about
because I don't think this movement has all the answers but maybe they know
a part of the truth.
Know I do meditions almost every day. I stimulate my chakras in a very
primitive way because I know still very little about it but I do feel the a
buzz in each chakra when I stimulate them and sometime without doing it -
and this seem very strange to me but it gives some evidence for energies.
This is a small bit of my story. Hope that this is a good mailinglist and
that you wil help me - as I will try to help you.
The best wishes
Henrik
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:45:53 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: faithATnospammail.phoenix.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini power
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980507194553.00905820ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello:
I will forward your post to the list for discussion.. but I would say,
one does not harness the power of Kundalini, one surrenders to it. It is
spirit manifesting in flesh. You.
Blessings, Mystress.
>Posted-Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:30:25 -0500 (CDT)
>X-Cmta: wGWrSr0yeJug6
>Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:26:43 +0000
>From: Faye Fontenot <faithATnospammail.phoenix.net>
>Reply-To: faithATnospammail.phoenix.net
>Organization: Sweet Messenger of Light
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
>To: kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com
>Subject: kundalini power
At 05:26 PM 07/05/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello,
>I am just now learning about kundalini,only by things that have happened
>to me.To began back in 91,as I was being baptised,as I was coming up
>out of the water,this strong wind went into my nose.I became totally
>different,for the first time in my life,I knew what born again was
>really all about.From that day forward,I have only been taught by the
>spirit.I was unaware of things that have happen to me.The spirit
>showed me that in spirit we are nether male or female,only that here
>in flesh we are male or female.The spirit also showed me that your
>soul also will experiance every thing it has ever been thourgh.I see
>also in the spirit.I now need understanding of all this.
>How do you harness the power of kundalini?
>
>Thanks and may YHVH bless
>Faye
>
>
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:49:30 +1000
From: "Resmer, Mathew" <Mathew.ResmerATnospamdsto.defence.gov.au>
To: "'Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Happiness
Message-ID: <5F23E32C8967D111A5D10000F81F6DE11C848BATnospamexchvic2.dsto.defence.gov.au>
Content-Type: text/plain
Don't be happy ... don't be sad ... don't be anything ...
just BE
> >Sandeep:
> >>Hi everybody
> >>
> >>If you have reasons to be happy then you really are not happy!
> >>
> >>Any views?
DISCLAIMER!
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