1998/04/25 04:19
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #331
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 331
Today's Topics:
Re: even more curious [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: I am Cement [ MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: gets more curious [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
(Still) S.O.S. & RFLOL!!! [ MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Directions... (Ed) [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: even more curious [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:17:29 PDT
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: margolisATnospamtransbay.net, divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com,
lobATnospamlineone.net
Subject: Re: even more curious
Message-ID: <19980425041731.21130.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
I think you guys are wonderful :))))) Such measured and calm responses.
I really did not how to begin...so taking Dan's advice I spent time
contemplating before speaking these past couple of days.
Before K awoke in me...i used to hesitate and reassses and analyze my
answers. Now, after Shakti has had her way with me I tend to almost
respond quickly, giving as little thought as possible to what comes
out...so as not, I discovered, to censor my heart and subconcious.
What this means is people see the more genuine version of me who always
is doing a reality check on her surroundings and belief systems. I
listen to what bounces back at me, feel the energy under the words,
digest and change my reality again so it brings to me a clearer
perception.
I really wouldnt change anything I asked or said. I am quite aware that
sometimes when i pop into my questioning mode people can feel defended,
offended, or not. When, in my experience, I start asking questions,
people who are attached to their belief systems respond as if i was
somehow doing injury to them. This is not my intent, although people
who identify with their belief systems often believe this is so. And
this rarely stops me from asking questions :)))
( I speak from experience as being the receiver of such questioning,
sometimes it feels like blood letting. Then I know I am attached to such
and such belief and have a vested interest in it being so.)
I also noticed during this particularly intense questioning time Shakti
was running very hot in my body, it felt like it was in flames.
I was seeing visions, my mind on hyper drive, feeling ecstasy...mania
probably. Mania is a new experience for me for I really have just two
speeds...slow and stop.
>Dan Margolis replying to Susan Carlson=20
>=20
>> It seems to me that you have some strong opinions on how
enlightenment
>> should be explained. You also seem to put great weight on the =
>practical.
>> You also seem to hint at a distaste for 'spiritual' things, because =
>they
>> often seem impractical.
Dan, if you only knew what my experience and understanding was and is of
such 'spiritual' things. And you cant in some ways because we are not
together in the physical but intense communication comes for me thru the
energetic exchange imbedded in emails. My perception of you,
energetically, feels like highly polished granite. Why? (I am
kinesthetic so i tend to explain things in that way, so bear with me.)
When i think/feel such a substance there is a deep earthy groundness,
unshakeable, ancient, born of fire from the center of the earth. Very
cool and soothing when held to my cheek, of great natural beauty. This
is how i perceive you (the short form :)).
Your questions seem less a deep reflection on =
>what
>> people are saying and more a reaction.
What I do is questioning myself with the same questions. I wont ask
anyone a question I wouldnt use on myself. I am aware too that
questioning can in itself be the answer. :))
Since I have considered much in the past six or seven years, questions
come quickly so they may seem like a reaction to those who observe. I
just really want to know what people believe and think.
They dont have to tell me...there is no law that questions must be
answered.
>
><snip>
>
>> You can continue your intellectual quest, but build a mindful
practice =
>and
>> you'll be able to find the answers within you.
>>=20
>> Dan M.
This has no feel/intent to be an intellectual quest for me. It may not
sound clear...but asking questions is not necessarily always an
intellectual inquiry, especially for me. I have not been very adept at
understanding me in intellectual ways. The yoga of thought has not
called to me. This maybe because of the Me i know, its not too logical.
A mindful practice...what is that? For me I practice in every moment of
being aware of Self, recogninzing self in every moment, every person,
every thing. Maybe because the way I am made I feel much ecstasy in
every moment.
Walking to work the sun on my skin feels like a lover's caress. The
smell of the spring flowers causes my flesh to tingle with pleasure,
sending little sparks up and down my spine.
I sit before my pc at work feeling little microscopic orgasmic
explosions in my body as I talk to a supervisor about an account.
I see, when i employ my awareness, the blinding light of Consciousnes in
every person, every thing, including me...the very air shimmering with
it.
I have no set spiritual practice per se...nothing along the lines that
are considered traditional. Shakti pulls me into spontaneous meditation
when she sees fit and spontaneous pranayama when she desires. She is
working on me now regarding the discipline of seeing, hearing, and
envrionment.
Meditation often starts with rumblings of Kundalini, blissful moments.
The energy rises, feels more intense, focused...then rising and rising,
out of the crown, time slows down then ........ Nothing.
Suddenly I am aware I am not breathing, a sudden intake of breath, and I
have noticed a half hour may have gone by.
Who is doing the asking? I am doing the asking...ME, YOU, I.
And Ed... :)))))
My perception of you has changed (because I have changed I am sure)
since I joined the list over a year ago. Such a deep well of
vulnerablity and humanity that I had difficulty perceiving before.
I would call it seasoned Lobster... Thank you for mirroring the good
things about me back to me.
>Kundalini seems a transitory experience for many people. Their main =
>questions seem to be what is this and how does it relate to other =
>experiences. If you are happy with your mind/body condition there is =
>nothing to alter.
Kundalini for me seems to be a process of refinement...a work in
progress.
Otherwise a means of movement away (from where we are) =
>or towards (a preferred situation) might be instigated.
I wish i knew where I was headed sometimes although not knowing gives it
a sense of adventure. Just asking questions of those who may have
explored the territory before me and trying to discriminate wishes,
hopes, and dreams from what may be SO. Maybe the greatest hope, the
greatest dream, the greatest wish is SO.
>Initially we have to accept our present condition and circumstances and
=
>be aware of the causes and conditions that sustain it.
I accept for a little while, then restlessness from Shakti opens up more
doors for me to walk thru, more avenues of Self discovery.
This means trying =
>to see the truth in the aspects of ourselves that others are aware of.
=
>It is their perception but we are the cause and must try and understand
=
>what is being seen and why.
Hmmm...trying to figure out what constitues a distorted mirror and what
is true, still. I have enough work on my hands keeping my mirror(heart)
clean.
>We are trying to treat ourselves in an objective or impartial manner =
>(you know - the way we do when we comment on others :-) By looking at =
>ourselves in this way (which is just honest) we start to realise
certain =
>qualities that we need (which we usually already have) and other =
>'shells' which we can let go of - because they are learnt protections
or =
>incomplete methods of being.
>Most spiritual practice is a process of calming and simplification that
=
>allows us space in which to become aware of ourselves. Spurious =
>spiritual practice is always about frantic effort that grafts good onto
=
>bad without first addressing the innate nature. We need to create a
base =
>on which to work.
>So if your interest is genuine you will quickly realise that what Dan =
>has said is an essential and simple method (that may occupy the rest of
=
>your life :-). You will not have to question further because according
=
>to your best understanding you will "build a mindful practice and
you'll =
>be able to find the answers within you".
>
>the mindless
>Lobster
Ed, there is such a genuine sweetness within you.
So what do you do with the answers when you got them...oops sorry, that
just slipped out. ;)
Much love to you both,
Susan
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:48:00 EDT
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
To: lobATnospamlineone.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: I am Cement
Message-ID: <442f6ed6.35416b01ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-04-24 17:16:05 EDT, you write:
<< Smiley smirk
Cheeky Chuckle
Wiggley Giggle
What am I up to?
LOL
Entertainment Lobster
>>
Michele:
Kundalini, Kundalini, Kundalini, Kundalini...
(Sung to the tune, "Cinderella, Cinderella, Cinderella, Cinderalla")
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 22:17:55 PDT
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: gets more curious
Message-ID: <19980425051756.5597.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Sharon writes
Susan,
I wrote:
> Have you considered the possibility that your rejection of
concepts of
"the
> light" and "enlightenment" may be a reaction to and a
repudiation of
your
> early religious training?
And you wrote:
>Rejection??? whoa...holy left turn Batman! Questioning
conceptions is
>different from rejection.
Susan, you know that the truth lies within. What you are doing
here strikes
me as the same kind of "questioning" you demonstrated on this
list to the
fundamentalist a couple of months ago. And that wasn't
questioning, IMO.
It was an attack against fundamentalist beliefs.
Sharon,
No, i have found the truth does not always lie within. I cant explain
that right now cause i dont have the words for the understanding. But I
will have an epiphany about it sooner or later...Shakti always
delivers...my evolution is not a static linear process.
Yes, you are right....it wasnt questioning. Depending on who was
watching it was considered attack, defense, setting boundaries, an
illumination. I received private emails all defending one of those
positions.
I wrote:
> The risk here is that a person stands the chance of
exchanging one set
of
> rigid beliefs for another.
And you wrote:
>Yes...that is why I left my religious fundie beliefs in the
70s. They
>were making me insane. But one good thing I learned was how to
question
>the staus quo, that's usually to me what people characterize as
true or
>a belief system.
Perhaps I am reading you entirely wrong, but I have read many
posts from you
in which you refer to those who seek the light as "white light
bunnies" and
deluded. Maybe they are and maybe they are aren't, but again,
the truth
lies within.
Susan:
I disagree in where the truth lies. Not all white light bunnies are
deluded and they are comforting, cozy, and fun to cuddle with. Call me
cantankerous but sometimes I feel like I need an insulin shot afterwards
when I am around them. And I hate sometimes to see white light bunnies
get eaten by big bad wolves....even when its by someone as carnivorous
as me.;9
I wrote:
> David Reisling characterized "the true believer" as someone
who switches
> belief systems from one pole to the other without
consideration of the
> middle ground and without broadening of concept.
And you wrote:
>Do you really think I am that shallow Sharon?
Talk about left turns! I said nothing about "shallow" and
neither did David
Riesling. In fact, one of the deepest thinkers I ever knew did
an amazing,
almost overnight flipflop from left-wing liberal to right wing
radical. It
was fascinating to watch.
Susan:
My mistake...i thought "...from one pole to the other without
consideration of the middle ground and without broadening of concept."
sounded like shallow, showing no depth of consideration.
And when I shed my Christian beliefs, I flipped into a period of
atheism. I
thought I was doing just great. It was only in retrospect that
I recognized
this as the dark night of my soul.
Susan:
I shed my Christian beliefs, well sorta, but remained at the most an
introspective agnostic. I am not quick to throw the baby out with the
bathwater. although sometimes I screw up :)))...OK OK I screw up
alot...;D
Aaaah yesssssss, the dark night of the soul..........the dark goddess's
domain.
Susan said before:
) And I know you said emulate...people practice being
happy all
the time...those are the ones with the permanent grin on their
faces
that looks like it would crack if you touched it.>>
You say: So, yes...it does strike me that you are on the offensive
here.
Why?
Susan:
Harsha had the better response. I didnt even realize that was what I was
doing...questioning the obvious. I consider what he says...In my
experience most people are like sheep....wanting to be led...not wanting
to ask questions...afraid of not being loved by an authority (parental
stuff?) if offending them. ( a little problem of mine ;))
I question for my own mental/spritual/emotional health. I have been led
most of my life...because I didnt question authority...particularly the
'spiritual' type. Thats one of my agendas Sharon...Leading me in my own
life...asking questions of those who might have gone before me helps me
discriminate in my choices.
:)
Susan
______________________
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Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 00:01:37 EDT
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: (Still) S.O.S. & RFLOL!!!
Message-ID: <fe1deec9.35416023ATnospamaol.com>
Dear List,
Thanks to all for commiseration & advice regarding my noisy neighbor. Altho'
the matter is Slightly Off Subject, in some respects the solution I came to
does come under advice I often see on this list: Detach and observe. So,
here's what happened....
Yesterday I had my surgery--doing fine, no OBEs, don't even remember counting
back from 100 & going out, as I did when I was four & had my tonsils out. But
back to the present...
Couldn't sleep the nite before my surgery, so I pulled an all-nighter, doing
spring cleaning, reading, etc. And my neighbor cranked up the music, louder
than he had played it all day (and he had already played it 16 straight hrs.
before midnite!) Well, I would've enjoyed just the quiet of the nite, but so
as not to be invaded by HIS music, I played some gentle/relaxing music, which
diverted my attention from the beating/vibrating/buzzing bass.
I stayed awake all night, during which time he took at least 3 showers (??!!),
& opened & closed the screen door of his balcony several times--I think
double-checking to see if the neighbor above him was up--and I was!
Well about 6:30 AM I decided to try & sleep, but still the beating bass. I
turned on a fan in my bedroom (in fact, put it right next to my head), & that
seemed to cover up most of the vibration, so I rested awhile. Around 9:30 AM,
I woke up, with a splitting headache (but I couldn't take any aspirin for it
because I was required to fast all nite before the surgery).
I had planned to go to work for 1/2 a day before the surgery (altho' I work
mostly at home, sometimes I go into my company's main office), but I wasn't
feeling well at all. The music was STILL playing, so I wrote a note to the
guy. Very short summary: "Your music has been playing for more than 24 hrs.,
which is 10-20 times more than the average person plays, & I think that's
unreasonable." (I got the statistic from a news article a couple months ago.)
I added, "I admire your stamina --either you don't require any sleep, or else
you leave your apt. & forget to turn your music off, but you're playing it
round-the-clock, & I rarely get to "experience" my apt. w/o it reverberating."
I mentioned that I was having surgery later in the day, & would really
appreciate it if he would take a break so I could get some rest.
I went down a flight of stairs and taped the note to the door, which I could
have done with my eyes closed as the music was blaring out into the hallway.
Had my surgery, and got home around 6 PM. No noise. (Yeah!!!) ...I went to
retrieve my phone messages, & there was one from the apt. manager: "I was on
the 9th Floor today and noticed a note taped to 903 and read it. 903 moved
out over a month ago, around the time I evicted no. 901, and no one else has
complained about any noise since."
At first I went "Oh sh-t" to myself. "Either I'm having a nervous
breakdown...or... or...." Then I stepped back & observed some events of the
last few months.
1. A couple days before my surgery, I wrote the Apt. Mgr. about a couple of
repairs needed in my apt. His assistant came up & fixed the problems that
very afternoon. (Prior to that, they had NEVER responded to my requests for
repairs.)
2. The day before that, when I came home from work, I had noticed a package
(a new kundalini book) on my dining table. (Well, they had never delivered a
package to my apt. before; in fact, I usually had to contact the Mgr. 2 or 3
times to get previous packages from his office, which I attributed to his
passive-aggressiveness, due to his being angry about my prior complaints about
his best friend's music. "Why are they suddenly being so nice to me?" I had
asked myself.
3. I remembered that mgmt. had taken FOREVER to evict 901, which was 903's
neighbor, who was almost as noisy as 901, but at least 903 hadn't held all-
nite parties like 903.
4. I remembered a friend in the bldg. telling me that Jorge, the guy directly
below, was job hunting.
5. I recalled the time I complained in writing to the Mgr. about Jorge's
(901) all nite parties, calling the police & threatening to sue!
6. Then I recalled that THAT had been my only complaint in writing, and the
ONLY one that had ever gotten results. Light bulb. Oh, no documentation of
previous complaints.
7. I recalled that when I had returned from L.A. a month ago, the apt. was
blissfully quiet for a week (which I knew was (1) because 903 had just been
evicted and (2) Jorge/901 was probably on vacation.
8. I realized that after that one quiet week the noise from 901 had started
up again, first tentatively, quieter than ever, progessing to the typical
heavy buzzing/ reverberation...then, ever more boldy, sometimes returning to
the VERY LOUD volume of the parties that had resulted in my calling the
police....& then, round-the-clock at various noise levels.
(But, strange "coincidence." Even tho' the Mgr. tells me 903 moved out weeks
ago, & that the music must be coming from somewhere else, guess what? It
miraculously has not been playing ever since I taped the note to 903's door &
returned from surgery yesterday.)
So, this is what this super-sleuthing Sherlock has come to believe: Jorge/901
has been unemployed for some time, but has been living rent-free below me for
4-6 weeks because he's best friends w/the mgr. (This bldg. has a VERY low
vacancy rate, & I'll bet Apt. Mgr. Man has told the mgmt. co. that he's been
doing repairs or some such before re-renting 903.)
I also think the Mgr. waited seemingly forever to evict 901 (even tho' I know
many others had complained about both 901 & 903) to keep 901 as a "distractor"
so his friend in 903 could continue to play his music; then, after a number of
people had complained to the mgmt. co. about the music from the 9th Floor, the
Mgr. blamed 903...& now they're evicted.
In the meantime, a good friend of mine on the 8th Floor, who just about
EVERYBODY likes, has just informed me that he will be moving next month.
Thus, my main "ally" will be gone, the Mgr. tells me nobody's living below
me...& I'm wondering how long the apt. below me will be "vacant" before they
re-rent it.
Whoa...sorry for this long tale, but as I've been writing you, Dear List, I
have also realized what great documentation this will make to send to the
mgmt. co., along w/my previous other ltrs. (including the one threatening to
sue the Mgr.--bet the mgmt. co. never saw THAT one; and the 2 or 3 I've
written to no. 903). Perhaps the mgmt. co. will make a surprise visit in the
wee hrs. of the nite in the next couple days on an anonymous tip about someone
"breaking & entering" into 903...or some such.
So...RFLOL but also having an OBE & also feeling very detached from it all.
Thx for reading this--& ya'll take care-- Michele
P.S. If anyone cares to comment or offer any further advice about handling
this situation, I'm most appreciative--and all "ears."
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:02:17 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Rik" <rik_wATnospamrocketmail.com>, "Kundalini list" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Cc: <rik_wATnospamrocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Directions... (Ed)
Message-Id: <199804250941.KAA25940ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> Very nice post, Ed! You are quite the writer indeed.
Thank you. I put this down to a lack of kundalini activation.
> Rik:
> Yep. I'm curious, in order to understand you better,
> what your self-interests and motivations are.
My natural tendencies are similar to others. I am motivated by a desire for love and attention. My motivation is to find a higher aspiration and try to live according to that. To unravel some of the falsity in myself. To overcome my tendency to pretend to be spiritual and knowledgeable.
> [big snip]
> > The role of the effective individual is to see
> > much more, further and more objectively than others. By
> > exercising this capacity and that of knowledge, progress
> > is constant.
>
> Change is constant; progress is change in a certain
> direction along a specified path. You are saying that
> progress along the path of the 'effective individual'
> is assured by exercising objectivity? Ok. I would
> also like to be an effective individual by the above
> criteria. Are there other worthy paths?
People talk about the many paths to God or Truth. I have never found this true. There are many circuses, there is only one path and it becomes more narrow. The path is to become the object of the search. In other words to allow the attributes we are trying to find to the fore.
To be honest, generous, kind. To be helpful, forgiving, understanding. Like calls to like.
> > Genuine spirituality is based on effective service and
> > transformation of the individual.
>
> I'll admit that I also have this bias. Are there other
> 'genuine' paths?
The genuine is the path.
> So the 'correct direction' is defined purposefully
> 'for the development of the people concerned'.
> Is it implied but not stated that it's simultaneously
> defined *BY* the people concerned, for their own
> development? If so, then the purpose of the 'effective
> individual' is to help many people realize their developmental
> needs and encourage them to further their own progress,
> along with others of similar inclinations. Is that right,
> or have I put too many words in your mouth?
Yes. People by their inclinations define the nature of the path. They produce circus training for future clowns. They are happy to do so.
The people interested in genuine development discover that the effective individual exists already in their environment and encourages them to avoid their tendencies to prefer circus entertainment. At the same time the genuine attributes are revealed, reinforced and enhanced in order to further real progress.
'Spiritual' seekers are very few and far between. Experts, realised individuals, 'k' activated holiness's and mad lobsters are the noisy majority.
Nothing can stop the sincere seeker after truth. Everything confuses the clown seeker.
> Very much agreed. However much you wish to redefine the
> boundaries of humanity, the most valuable guidance will
> instill in you that first and foremost you ARE human.
> (Tho I'll acknowledge an incessant and biased self-interest
> in securing my humanity.)
Ed
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:16:13 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>, <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>,
<kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: even more curious
Message-Id: <199804251033.LAA03363ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> And Ed... :)))))
>
> My perception of you has changed (because I have changed I am sure)
> since I joined the list over a year ago. Such a deep well of
> vulnerablity and humanity that I had difficulty perceiving before.
> I would call it seasoned Lobster... Thank you for mirroring the good
> things about me back to me.
I am basically the different person I was then.
Was I a mirror? And there was me thinking you were reflecting me . . .
I will have to reflect on that.
> Hmmm...trying to figure out what constitues a distorted mirror and what
> is true, still. I have enough work on my hands keeping my mirror(heart)
> clean.
We all find it easy to be objective about others. Easily we can see what they need to do and how they should act (and don't we like to tell them :-) However very few turn that scrutiny on themselves. We prefer to believe in an idealised sense of self (I am talking about well balanced people - some having no sense of self worth need to move up to this first).
However assuming we are "together" the best way is to be very 'critical' of your motivations and very understanding of others. In other words see the worst in self and the best in others. This may seem unbalanced but it is used to counter our tendencies towards ego inflation. I do not of course mean criticize yourself, I mean be aware of the false motivation - be aware of them. Judge it as something you can improve on.
> Ed, there is such a genuine sweetness within you.
How true.
Fortunately I keep it well hidden and people are convinced Lobsters have big claws.
The well seasoned, genuinely sweet
Lobster
PEACE AND GOODWILL TO ALL
(even cement)
DISCLAIMER!
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