1998/04/23 09:03
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #323
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 323
Today's Topics:
Re: curious/ [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
gets more curious [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: even more curious [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: Saint or Sinner? [ Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.te ]
Re: Power! [ "Jason S. White" <zymphtATnospambluewin.ch ]
Re: gets more curious [ "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu> ]
Re: Power! [ John Heaton <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com ]
The past [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
kundalini arising [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
kundalini arising (Sharon Ligler) [ amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us ]
Re: curious [ John Heaton <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com ]
Re: curious [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Re: Power! [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:45:57 PDT
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: samyanaATnospamhotmail.com
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: curious/
Message-ID: <19980423064559.11999.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>>
>>>Susan Carlson wrote:
>>What's so hard about describing the
>>>> enlightened person?
>>>
>SNIP
>When people are
>>unenlightened they behave one way and when they are enlightened they
>>behave another way, wouldn't you think?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> >> So what are the traits of an enlightened person? Can we list
>>them?
>>>> >
> Dan wrote:
>>>to explain it... Listing in an intellectual manner the traits of an
>>>enlightened person so that you could understand it is the equivalent
>of
>>>using the wrong measuring tool to try to understand an almost
ethereal
>>>trait.
>>
>>Here's where I outright disagree....traits which arise from
>>enlightenment are not always ethereal or even a heavenly trait, I
think
>>they would be practical traits, of benefit to me and to those around
>me.
>>( of course, this is the way the universe looks to me :)))
>Dear Susan,
> At risk of sounding presupmtious, it seems you DO already have some
>pre-conceived notion that you wish to have confirmed.
Dear Glo,
I always have a preconceived notion...that is precisely the reason why i
ask questions. I dont want to be a slave to my conceptions.
How practical is
>beauty?? Yet who wants to live without it?? Please kindly consider why
>you are somewhat rejecting or questioning the so-called ethereal
traits,
>whatever that means to you. Why not BOTH practical and ethereal
outcomes
>from enlightenment?? The trouble is you have to sorta make an object
>out of a person in order to list traits and characteristics, but just
>for you, I will try anyway, to explain the difficulty.
People are objects, they take up space and can be very objectionable
except when they are being ethereal and spiritual and then sometimes
they are just annoying. ;)
>
> Take a baby, for example. Some people choose to focus on the
>sweetness and innocence and find the helplessness only charming.
>But a baby also cries, wets, and does not follow directions well.
>Some people find this so annoying, they have been known to abuse and
>kill babies. So which description fits the baby??
All of them and sick people kill babies. A judgment i just made which
objectifies people. I made a judgment, defined a trait, a
characteristic...a very useful survival tool and social skill.
>Why was Jesus killed??
He pissed off the establishment and his countrymen.
>So often, the beauty IS in the eye of the beholder...
>Maybe it takes an enlightened person to see one??..others may see a
>fool, or simply find them annoying. The difficulty of arriving at some
>consensus of agreement is that "my list" may be so different from "your
>list"...and one enlightened person may be so uniquely himself that "no
>two are alike" either. There is no universal mold for making them all
>turn out the same. These perceptions are so often intuitive and
>subjective..its just too difficult to make a list.
I never said anything about your list or my list...i said lets make a
list....i never said we had to agree...jeez, we cant even make a
list......;)
Nobody here on this list knows how to recognize an enlightened person???
uh oh... Or are people afraid to express an opinion...(oops sorry Jerry
and Ashanka, I just remembered your contributions :)))
>>
>>
>>SNIP
>>
>>>
>>>> There are results of being enlightened or are there only the
>>>> illusory,ethereal hopes and desires of a hungry mind?
>>>>
>.
>>
>>My world view on enlightenment is it would (among other things) turn
>one
>>to service...a yoga of action....seva. I think that would be one
marker
>>of enlightenment. If we can have symptoms of inner peace (another
>>marker)that may be a trait of enlightenment.
>
>YES, it may do both...still what looks like service to me may seem like
>just bad politics to you. Someone wrote a book about how Mother Teresa
>was a rip-off fake...you cannot prove this stuff like in a laboratory
>experiment.
Who's asking for proof? So do you think Mother Theresa is enlightened?
Why is that? Who cares what other people think! I am asking you what
you think.
>
>>
>>I have a question....if we are all a part of God, and some peoples are
>>enlightened and some are not, then god is not totally enlightenment?
(
>>another foolish question but these things I want to know about).
>
>People say they experience either a gradual or sudden shift in
>awareness..they call it enlightenment...but where is God?? On his lunch
>break???
I dont see the connection with your question. I know where God is. Where
do you think God is?
You said you have a Christian background?? Did Jesus not say
>that whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me??
He also said the poor you have with you always. (his knew he hadnt much
time left, in other words, do for him)
Is this
>identification of God with man then depending on time or an event of
>outward conditions to make it true?? No, we are always a part of God,
>no matter what may be appearing to be the case, even whether we know it
>or not by our experience (or enlightenment).
I am having a hard time following you here Glo. Sounds a little like
Mother Theresa's philosphy....in fact, she had hanging on the wall in
the motherhouse a prayer which stated to see each patient as jesus.
There is a big difference though, to Christians, between treating people
as jesus and believing people are jesus (god). Now I happen to believe
at this time ( may change later) that people are god, not a part of god.
Yes i know above I said a 'part of' but this enlightenment thread is
causing me to rethink my position and i vacilate between being a part of
and being god depending on what i am pondering this week.
What's true ..just is the
>way it is. People are free to believe otherwise, of course. God just is
>not dependent on us for any characteristics.
Does god have something to do with enlightenment?
In theology this was called
>God is immanent (fully
>present) but transcendent (existing beyond the material world) also.
>What can I say..He's tricky like that...very versatile guy.
I would call this pandimensional...just like me. I exist in every
moment, everywhere and nowhere. I do get around.
> Hope you don't mind me falling back on these old concepts to make
>the analogy with enlightenment...but we seem to have that common
>background..and there's not that much difference, even if you leave God
>out completely..its the same idea of transcendence and immanence.
Glo...i appreciate you trying but i dont understand your analogy.
>
>> So some part of god is not all light and some part of god is not all
>>dark...kinda like the yin yang symbol.
> Yes, very much like. Seeming opposites united..both true..
>>
>>What if enlightenment is a dynamic process, non linear? Then Peswami
>>could feel he has lost his enlightenment. In church we used to say,
>>"once saved, always saved'. Are we once enlightened, always
>enlightened?
> Who really can know this???
why limit myself to what is known and preconceived?
It's just how we may think we experience
>anything. Just believing EITHER way does not make it so.
Belief does not always make things so although many new age thinkers do
believe that is so. Hmmm...does the belief create the experience or does
the experience create the belief?
>>
>>I am beginnging to think that the pursueing of enlightenment is
>>something of a cultural vanity, particularly when people are unable to
>>recognize or identify the traits of an enlightened person.
>
>You may be right, Susan. Vanity is quite prevelant among human beings.
>However, The pull or desire, or quest for God, Truth, enlightenment..
>is usually begun by extremely imperfect people..who have no idea what
>they are getting into and how it may change them..some feel pursuing
and
>others feel pursued BY...its a long, strange trip...
Truly...and it is sad that people put their common sense on the side of
the road in their quest for enlightenment.
Namaste,
Susan
______________________
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Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:06:49 PDT
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: gets more curious
Message-ID: <19980423070650.12764.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:39:51 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
Subject: Re: Curious
Susan,
Have you considered the possibility that your rejection of
concepts of "the
light" and "enlightenment" may be a reaction to and a
repudiation of your
early religious training?
Rejection??? whoa...holy left turn Batman! Questioning conceptions is
different from rejection.
The risk here is that a person stands the chance of exchanging
one set of
rigid beliefs for another.
Yes...that is why I left my religious fundie beliefs in the 70s. They
were making me insane. But one good thing I learned was how to question
the staus quo, that's usually to me what people characterize as true or
a belief system.
David Reisling characterized "the true believer" as someone who
switches
belief systems from one pole to the other without consideration
of the
middle ground and without broadening of concept.
Do you really think I am that shallow Sharon?
The true
believer simply
exchanges one sets of dogma. Examples of this are the extreme
left wing
liberal who flipsflops over to right wing reactionary, or the
religious
zealot who does a 180 degree turn and embraces the dark
underbelly of belief
systems.
yes...could it be...maybe...the influence of ....oh, maybe....SATAN!!!
:D
Susan
______________________
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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:04:16 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Dan Margolis" <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>,
"Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>,
"Kundalini Mailing List" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: even more curious
Message-Id: <199804230828.JAA02154ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
Dan Margolis replying to Susan Carlson
> It seems to me that you have some strong opinions on how enlightenment
> should be explained. You also seem to put great weight on the practical.
> You also seem to hint at a distaste for 'spiritual' things, because they
> often seem impractical. Your questions seem less a deep reflection on what
> people are saying and more a reaction.
<snip>
> You can continue your intellectual quest, but build a mindful practice and
> you'll be able to find the answers within you.
>
> Dan M.
Kundalini seems a transitory experience for many people. Their main questions seem to be what is this and how does it relate to other experiences. If you are happy with your mind/body condition there is nothing to alter. Otherwise a means of movement away (from where we are) or towards (a preferred situation) might be instigated.
Initially we have to accept our present condition and circumstances and be aware of the causes and conditions that sustain it. This means trying to see the truth in the aspects of ourselves that others are aware of. It is their perception but we are the cause and must try and understand what is being seen and why.
We are trying to treat ourselves in an objective or impartial manner (you know - the way we do when we comment on others :-) By looking at ourselves in this way (which is just honest) we start to realise certain qualities that we need (which we usually already have) and other 'shells' which we can let go of - because they are learnt protections or incomplete methods of being.
Most spiritual practice is a process of calming and simplification that allows us space in which to become aware of ourselves. Spurious spiritual practice is always about frantic effort that grafts good onto bad without first addressing the innate nature. We need to create a base on which to work.
So if your interest is genuine you will quickly realise that what Dan has said is an essential and simple method (that may occupy the rest of your life :-). You will not have to question further because according to your best understanding you will "build a mindful practice and you'll be able to find the answers within you".
the mindless
Lobster
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:28:48 +0200
From: Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Saint or Sinner?
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980423102848.009d0870ATnospampop.tel.hr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 04:37 1998.04.22 -0700, you wrote:
>> >However many holy words you read, how many you speak, what good will they
>> >do you if you do not act upon them?"
>> >
>> >These words I recently posted are *not* ascribed to Charles Manson as I
>> >stated but are in fact the words of the Buddha. You can probably now see
>> >how spiritual they are . . .
>>
>> ;))))) I don't know, I liked it and then read the name, and then it was
>> "what the f"#$?!?". ;))))))))
>
>Lack of clarity? People confuse wisdom with emotional expectation?
;) Actually my thinking was between "if he said it, there must be somthing
wrong with it" and "who cares if he said it, as long as it's good". :)
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:20:12 +0200
From: "Jason S. White" <zymphtATnospambluewin.ch>
To: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>, <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Power!
Message-ID: <001301bd6ea9$eccb0b60$2537bac3ATnospamzympho.bluewin.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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>> Jason: What is the feeling of having no explanation?
>
>Paul: Freedom. I have felt it sometimes to some degree. It means to just
>observe, sometimes I do that, simply look, just standing there looking
>and that's all. When I do that I actually feel like I know a person,
>and on rare occasions have gotten close to seeing christ in a person.
>
>>Jason: What do you know with no explanation whatsoever?
>
>Paul: Reality I suppose. Easier said than done I think.
>
Jason: I suppose so, but really it's easier not said and just done.
>> How does that feel?
>
>Paul: but when things get to their most extreme of you having
>exhausted all ability to find an answer there seems to be something
>wonderful.
>
Jason: What does that tell you? Allow yourself to arrive at that something
wonderful without first exhausting yourself.
>Paul: Yes, something in my wants to know the answer to the question, to the
>problem which seems to remind me of its intensity and necessity for
>being answered.
>
>>Jason: What is that?
>
>Paul: Not love.
>
Jason: Certainly it is what your idea of love is not. Can that intensity
you feel answer the question without explaining the answer? What is the
intensity of a question who's answer has no explanation?
>
>I get ideas which change with my moods. What I felt was honestly right
>one minute might not be the next.
Jason: What does that tell you about ideas? About moods? You could
develop an explanation about it, but don't forget that it is just an idea
and may change with your next mood.
>Paul: I know where you are coming from with this and I am gradually
managing
>to be better.
>
Jason: Perhaps you could let me know where I am coming from as I have not
really developed an explanation yet. Where am I coming from? Where am I
going?
Ready, set ............ GO!
Jason.
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:43:26 -0400
From: "Sharon Webb" <shawebbATnospamyhc.edu>
To: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: gets more curious
Message-ID: <00bc01bd6eb5$69c38880$82d11fa8ATnospamsharonwe>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Susan,
I wrote:
> Have you considered the possibility that your rejection of concepts of
"the
> light" and "enlightenment" may be a reaction to and a repudiation of
your
> early religious training?
And you wrote:
>Rejection??? whoa...holy left turn Batman! Questioning conceptions is
>different from rejection.
Susan, you know that the truth lies within. What you are doing here strikes
me as the same kind of "questioning" you demonstrated on this list to the
fundamentalist a couple of months ago. And that wasn't questioning, IMO.
It was an attack against fundamentalist beliefs.
I wrote:
> The risk here is that a person stands the chance of exchanging one set
of
> rigid beliefs for another.
And you wrote:
>Yes...that is why I left my religious fundie beliefs in the 70s. They
>were making me insane. But one good thing I learned was how to question
>the staus quo, that's usually to me what people characterize as true or
>a belief system.
Perhaps I am reading you entirely wrong, but I have read many posts from you
in which you refer to those who seek the light as "white light bunnies" and
deluded. Maybe they are and maybe they are aren't, but again, the truth
lies within.
I wrote:
> David Reisling characterized "the true believer" as someone who switches
> belief systems from one pole to the other without consideration of the
> middle ground and without broadening of concept.
And you wrote:
>Do you really think I am that shallow Sharon?
Talk about left turns! I said nothing about "shallow" and neither did David
Riesling. In fact, one of the deepest thinkers I ever knew did an amazing,
almost overnight flipflop from left-wing liberal to right wing radical. It
was fascinating to watch.
And when I shed my Christian beliefs, I flipped into a period of atheism. I
thought I was doing just great. It was only in retrospect that I recognized
this as the dark night of my soul.
I don't _think_ I am a True Believer...at least not now...but who knows?
Shakti certainly made some kind of a believer out of me...and it was almost
instantaneous, too. :-)
Sen Ashanka wrote:
>> A: There is nothing in recognising the traits of an "enligtened
person". If there were traits, then simply emulating those
traits would make you enlightened.>>
And you wrote:
>>S:Naaah...acting like a dog does not change me into a dog. Acting holy
does not make me holy. Change comes from within not from external
stimuli/structure. Pretending to be enlightened is not the same as being
enlightened although a lot of people have made money pretending to be
so. :)) And I know you said emulate...people practice being happy all
the time...those are the ones with the permanent grin on their faces
that looks like it would crack if you touched it.>>
So, yes...it does strike me that you are on the offensive here. Why? Is
the idea repugnant to you that people who seek the light might actually
become enlightened?
Hypocrisy is one of my red buttons, too...but every seeker is not a fake or
a hypocrite.
Sen Ashanka wrote:
>>A: An enlightened person simply behaves the way he/she likes to
behave, irrespective of anything else.
>>S:So do sociopaths. Maybe there is not any difference. Sociopaths are a
law unto themselves...have no conscience.
Another attack. You know the truth lies within, Susan; you even said so.
You know where the answers to all these questions of yours lie. So what is
the subtext to all these posts? What is the agenda? What is so threatening
to you? What are you defending?
I'm curious, too.
Love,
Sharon
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:47:19 -0500
From: John Heaton <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com>
To: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Power!
Message-ID: <353F4667.363BATnospampsbnewton.com>
Paul West wrote:
>
> Hi Jason.
>
> > Paul, for all your self-analyses:
>
> Yes, I do do that a lot. (He sais, analysing)
>
> > Do you know that no one has an explanation?
>
> I grasp it intellectually. Sometimes I find myself saying that I just
> don't know. It gets really seemingly low sometimes, like there is just
> no way, that no suggested path seems to be the right one, and then
> things start to look up. Wierd that.
John: You sound very much like me Paul. Our intellect fills us with
expectations and we look for validation of those thoughts. Finally we
get tired and let loose the tension of intellect we band ourselves with
and things start looking better. We drop the need to control and
everything starts to open up again. Then of course our busy little
intellect starts rolling with all the tasty new tid bits, and we happily
bind ourselves tighter and tighter...the cycle completes and begins
anew...
>
> > What is the feeling of having no explanation?
>
> Freedom. I have felt it sometimes to some degree. It means to just
> observe, sometimes I do that, simply look, just standing there looking
> and that's all. When I do that I actually feel like I know a person,
> and on rare occasions have gotten close to seeing christ in a person.
John: Yes, freedom! Freedom from being right, freedom from being wrong.
A package deal it is. There is a multitude inside us. If we are flat
dead wrong, what difference does it make? If we are spot on right, who
cares???
..."close to seeing christ in a person"...I like that! I endeavor to
see the christed consciousness, the Light, in every pair of eyes I see,
including the ones in the mirror. Nothing else really matters. Somebody
famous once said the longest trip we will ever make is from our head to
our heart. I figure I would need that confounded analysis to 'figure'
out where I am, so the hell with it!! heh heh heh
John
Just trying to enjoy the view...
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:25:56 -0500
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: The past
Message-ID: <1318798940-50573640ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Paul West:
...to be somewhere other than the nightmare of mundane life. ...What can I do?
Amckeon:
Stick around. The people on this list have been a great help to me. I can
feel myself growing. It is slow, but there is movement. I was experiencing
my job as a nightmare of mundane life. That is changing. I feel more
greatful, less fearful, these days. Stick around. Keep posting. Keep
reading what everyone else has to say. Change will happen. It is
inevitable.
Lobster sez
BE WELL
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:26:01 -0500
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: kundalini arising
Message-ID: <1318798935-50573967ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Reminds me of the Doors song where Jim Morrison sez "Got my Mojo Rising..."
or something...
Dan Margolis apparently did a survey. Somehow I missed responding to it.
"Anyhoo" (don't ya love that pause...) put me in the Spontaneous category.
amckeon
(with parenthetical comment)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:26:07 -0500
From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: kundalini arising (Sharon Ligler)
Message-ID: <1318798929-50574310ATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Sharon:
Please tell us more about this lodge deal. My dad was a Mason. I've
sometimes wondered....
amckeon
(wondering....)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:38:26 -0500
From: John Heaton <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com>
To: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
CC: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID: <353F5262.DF3ATnospampsbnewton.com>
Dan Margolis wrote:
Susan:
> > Wondering if there are other people who wonder if their is a demystical
> > school of practical enlightenment,
>
> If there was, it would be eminently suitable for those new-agey, crystal
> carrying, cranio-sacrum adjusting, aroma therapizing wanderers out there,
> but probably not very useful for someone who is only lives in the practical
> world.
>
> Yours,
> Dan M.
John:
Yikes! Guess we can put them on the same bus with the niggers, gooks,
spics, waps, chinks, whatever and give them all a one way ticket to
hell. Certaintly would make live easier for us more sensible folk.
P.S. I thought we were all already enrolled in the demystical school of
practical enlightenment....seems 101 is a tough course to pass!
Dazed and confused, holstering my flamethrower.....(sorry Dan)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 08:31:01 -0700
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com
CC: Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID: <353F5EB4.379F6018ATnospamtransbay.net>
> John:
> Yikes! Guess we can put them on the same bus with the niggers, gooks,
> spics, waps, chinks, whatever and give them all a one way ticket to
> hell. Certaintly would make live easier for us more sensible folk.
>
> P.S. I thought we were all already enrolled in the demystical school of
> practical enlightenment....seems 101 is a tough course to pass!
>
> Dazed and confused, holstering my flamethrower.....(sorry Dan)
Nope keep that flamethrower out it's useful sometimes... I admit I just
expressed an opinion as opposed to a true idea... Of course I'm not prejudiced,
some of my best friends carry crystals....
Let me try to express the same idea without the prejudice... A practical school
in the sense of an intellectual, staid, grounding school of enlightenment would
be very useful for people that have avoided developing their intellectual
understanding of the world. Intellectual inquiry if properly done leads to
outstanding insights. However, if a person's only way of interacting with life
is intellectual inquiry a practical school of enlightenment will not help them
instead it will re-enforce bad habits. Rational thought is a useful trick, just
don't make it a habit.
Dan M.
Date: 23 Apr 98 16:27:54 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Power!
Message-Id: <353F6C0A.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> John: You sound very much like me Paul. Our intellect fills us with
> expectations and we look for validation of those thoughts. Finally we
> get tired and let loose the tension of intellect we band ourselves with
> and things start looking better. We drop the need to control and
> everything starts to open up again. Then of course our busy little
> intellect starts rolling with all the tasty new tid bits, and we happily
> bind ourselves tighter and tighter...the cycle completes and begins
> anew...
Yes, sounds like the drama that goes on.
Talking of sound, ever noticed that you can't actually see it?
Try isolating sound from vision and see what happens.
> ..."close to seeing christ in a person"...I like that! I endeavor to
> see the christed consciousness, the Light, in every pair of eyes I see,
> including the ones in the mirror.
There were times when I was at work in past months where perhaps
things had quietened down a bit, fellow employees might not be
involved with me but instead deep in conversation with someone else
down the other end of the store. I would stand there and look and just
see them, just watching, just observing without trying to find out
what they were doing, just looking at the person and only at the
person like they were the only thing in existence. And on one or two
occasions I'm pretty sure I saw something very selfless and christlike
in those people. I quite like to just watch things without having to
interact or mess with it.
There are also other people who I perhaps have not met before but who
seem familiar and I will just watch them whatever they're doing and
just get this feeling that I always knew them or always knew they were
in my life.
> Nothing else really matters. Somebody
> famous once said the longest trip we will ever make is from our head to
> our heart. I figure I would need that confounded analysis to 'figure'
> out where I am, so the hell with it!! heh heh heh
:)
--
Paul.
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