1998/04/22 20:29
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #321
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 321
Today's Topics: Re: curious/ [ hbarrettATnospamix.netcom.com (Holly N. Ba ]
Re: Delirium's guide to the universe [ Kathy ] Re: Be Well [ "Ed Jason" ]
More name calling [ "Ed Jason" ] Re: Power! [ valerie cooper ]
Re: Delirium's guide to the universe [ Kathy ] flat head [ MoonDghtr ]
Re: Layers of mind [ "Brent Blalock" ] Incredible String Band [ "Peter A. Salzman" ]
Re: Introduction to me [ Angela Mary Broad ] Meditation April 23th [ "Roberto Gonzales del Valle"
Gloria Lee wrote:
> >You may be right, Susan. Vanity is quite prevelant among human beings.
>However, The pull or desire, or quest for God, Truth, enlightenment.. >is usually begun by extremely imperfect people..who have no idea what
>they are getting into and how it may change them..some feel pursuing and
>others feel pursued BY...its a long, strange trip... >>
When I read this I had such a joyful vision of God seeking Itself. And
the more God finds Itself the more we fade into a kind of transparent version of ourselves. This is terrifying! No wonder we grab onto
vanity with all our might. Thanks! Holly Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:05:42 +0100
From: Kathy To: Harsha1MTM , The List
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Ingenuously, Delirium asks again...referring to the following...
> Harsha: What I mean is this: Do not mind your mind. Just do it with
> awareness.
What is the *it* that I am doing?
Do you mean the process of *be-ing*?
(really sorry for asking what appear to be very stupid questions)
...or could this be "guru-training" for Harsha?
hmm...I feel like asking in this way: "Dawg-gawn, is that one-uh tham thare "Zen Koan" type thingies?"
--Delirium the apparent dullard
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:34:27 -0700 From: "Ed Jason"
To: "Brent Blalock" Cc: "Kundalini - L"
Subject: Re: Be Well Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Why do you think those are rude questions?
My thinking is limited. I refuse to bother with listening, I just enjoy asking questions, making comments and not really making any effort. I am not really rude at all - just ignorant.
> Well, I don't know much at all, but I do know that I'm right, and that > people that disagree with me are, by definition, wrong. I'm also know I'm
> a fool and freely admit to being one. But that knowledge doesn't stop me > from talking out of my ass.
> It is not Jesus I defend, but those who take offense to inflammatory
> remarks made about him.
Glo thinks you are incapable of playing games. Next she'll be offering you advice on how to behave towards me :-)
Best Wishes Lobster
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:40:04 -0700 From: "Ed Jason"
To: "Gloria Lee" , ,
Subject: More name calling Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Dear Sweet, Foolish, Maddened, Saint Lobbie, > Gather you have noticed that people see the Jesus or Lobster they
> want to see, or need to see, or "deserve" to see. Would you consider > changing your nick to Chameleon?? You may be over-doing the "let-me-be
> your-mirror" routine, Crusty??? So, I am going to invoke your rule > #1..and defend Brent, too. He IS new to the list, this can be a very
> wierd place to get familiar with, and once you get your claws into > someone..you merely provoke more squirming to get away. Please let go
> and > let Brent swim another day. He can be most pleasant, just take my word
> for it.
Why? To please you? Because you say so?
I think Brent is quite capable of taking advice from you or learning from a constructed situation. That is up to him. Did I ever say Brent was not pleasant? I know he is. Just as I know you are well meaning and ineffectual. Why do you continually give advice - knowing it to be irrelevant and not taken? It is because you are so 'vulnerable' in your position of 'non-defense' that I can not reflect too unkindly. If I did you would see yourself perhaps too clearly as gentle and ineffective.
So here is a little smiley for you :-) and I of course apologise for any pain I have not caused.
Lobster
(protecting Brent from the well meaning Glo) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:44:48 +0000
From: valerie cooper To: Paul West
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Power!
Message-ID:
Paul West wrote: >
> Hello. >
> A thunder/lightening storm has just arrived here. It might cheer me > up! :-))
v: yup. & the sun is reflecting brightly off the waters in SE Alaska.
Guess I won't beat anybody over the head & take slaves quite yet today! :-)
-- for what it's worth;
valerie cooper http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7982/index.html
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 23:36:34 +0200 From: "Jason S. White"
To: "Paul West" , Subject: Re: Power!
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="US-ASCII"
Paul, for all your self-analyses:
Do you know that no one has an explanation?
What is the feeling of having no explanation? What do you know with no explanation whatsoever?
How does that feel? How does that feel?
That is knowing:
B A A A N N N G G G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
What is the mystery of clarity?
What is the depth of illusion? What is the substance of power!?
What is the sound of light? What is present in vacuum?
You cannot explain the above,
yet something in you leaps to answer. What is that?
Knowing needs no analysis. There is no explanation for *you*.
Or the corollary: you choose any explanation. Why have you chosen the one you have?
Cheers! Power!
Jason!
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul West To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Date: Wednesday, 22 April, 1998 20:45 PM Subject: Power!
>Hello. >
>A thunder/lightening storm has just arrived here. It might cheer me >up! :-))
> >--
>Paul. >
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:25:31 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM To: deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com, Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe... Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 4/22/1998, 5:03:20 PM, deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com writes:
<Ingenuously, Delirium asks again...referring to the following...
> Harsha: What I mean is this: Do not mind your mind. Just do it with > awareness.
What is the *it* that I am doing?
Do you mean the process of *be-ing*?
Harsha: Being is simply Being. What I mean is this: Mind your mind. In other words, hold on to your mind with your mind in awareness. Practice increasing
the periods you can hold the mind without being disturbed. But do not mind your mind. In other words do not be bothered by the different states of the
mind. Does that clarify? Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:41:58 +0100
From: Kathy To: Harsha1MTM , The List
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
yes...very much clearer, thankyou dear Harsha!
To me it is also a reminder to not be so "hard" on myself...I think Paul West
would relate to this as well.
*****Delirium*****
> What is the *it* that I am doing? > Do you mean the process of *be-ing*?
> > Harsha: Being is simply Being. What I mean is this: Mind your mind. In other
> words, hold on to your mind with your mind in awareness. Practice increasing > the periods you can hold the mind without being disturbed. But do not mind
> your mind. In other words do not be bothered by the different states of the > mind. Does that clarify?
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:55:57 EDT From: MoonDghtr
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: flat head
Message-ID:
Greetings all! Have a question...I think that my K has begun to awaken. I've
had symptoms such as seeing spots of light, loss of appetite, bouts of extreme happiness and then incredible sadness (manic, perhaps). insomnia....once as I
was drifting to sleep I heard a concophany of voices, sooo loud that I had to physically tell them to stop. They did. Also, the top of the back of my head
has been getting flatter and generates much more heat than the rest of my head. I've been told that this occurs upon spiritual awakening (it also
happened to my mother when her spirit had left her body upon death from this life) Any advice, comments would be appreciated
~~~Moon Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:01:37 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" To: "Paul West"
Cc: "Kundalini - L" Subject: Re: Layers of mind
Message-Id:
> From: Paul West > To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
> Subject: Layers of mind > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 2:50 PM
> > [bla, bla, bla...]
> What is this multiple me?
Um, I think beings like that are called "humans." _Liber_Null_ (a book) has this to say about the human mind:
"Every moment the consortium of 'I' puts on a new face. I am not the I who
was a few seconds ago, much less yesterday. Our name is multiple. I am a colony of beings sharing the same envelope."
Every second, you learn new things, and forget old things. Every moment,
you mood is slightly different than the one you had the moment before. As each year passes, you are altered by that year's experiences.
We are Brent.
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:09:03 -0500 From: "Brent Blalock"
To: Cc: "Kundalini - L"
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe... Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> From: Kathy
> To: Harsha1MTM ; The List
> Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe... > Date: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 10:05 AM
> > ...or could this be "guru-training" for Harsha?
Hey, that's my job. :P
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:30:35 PDT From: "Gloria Lee"
To: blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu, lobATnospamlineone.net Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Be Well Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
>Glo thinks you are incapable of playing games. Next she'll be offering =
>you advice on how to behave towards me :-) >
>Best Wishes >Lobster
> >
Dear Sweet Lobbie, I already have tried to advise Brent, as ineffectually as usual.
You, on the other hand, appear to quite effective, but at WHAT.. remains to be seen.
If I love you, no matter what, do you mind much??
Ineffectually yours, Glo
PS I gave up thinking for Lent..and then forgot how.
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Peter A. Salzman" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Incredible String Band Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
"Turn your quivering nerves in my direction, turn your quivering nerves in my direction,
turn your quivering nerves in my direction,
feel the energy projection
of my cells wishes you well...
May the long time sun shine upon you
all love surround you and the pure light within you
guide you all the way on
May the long time sun shine upon you all love surround you
and the pure light within you guide you all the way on
May the long time sun shine upon you
all love surround you and the pure light within you
guide you all the way on"
- The Incredible String Band from "A Very Cellular Song"
Take Care Everyone,
Love Pete Date: 22 Apr 98 23:07:50 +0000
From: "Paul West" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Power! Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Jason.
> Paul, for all your self-analyses:
Yes, I do do that a lot. (He sais, analysing)
> Do you know that no one has an explanation?
I grasp it intellectually. Sometimes I find myself saying that I just
don't know. It gets really seemingly low sometimes, like there is just no way, that no suggested path seems to be the right one, and then
things start to look up. Wierd that.
> What is the feeling of having no explanation?
Freedom. I have felt it sometimes to some degree. It means to just observe, sometimes I do that, simply look, just standing there looking
and that's all. When I do that I actually feel like I know a person, and on rare occasions have gotten close to seeing christ in a person.
> What do you know with no explanation whatsoever?
Reality I suppose. Easier said than done I think.
> How does that feel?
Being alone you mean. Well, lonelyness sometimes leads to being alone.
You don't have to be on your own to be lonely or with other people to be alone, but when things get to their most extreme of you having
exhausted all ability to find an answer there seems to be something wonderful.
> How does that feel?
Self empowerment, enthusiasm, optimism, love.
> That is knowing:
> >
> B A A A N N N G G G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
YES YES YES!!!
> > What is the mystery of clarity?
I have many images of clarity - memories of when there was clarity,
perhaps.
> What is the depth of illusion?
I have looked into this for a long time.
> What is the substance of power!?
Hmm.
> What is the sound of light?
Now that I don't know.
> What is present in vacuum?
Not sure.
> > You cannot explain the above,
> yet something in you leaps to answer.
Yes, something in my wants to know the answer to the question, to the problem which seems to remind me of its intensity and necessity for
being answered.
> What is that?
Not love.
> Knowing needs no analysis. > There is no explanation for *you*.
> Or the corollary: you choose any explanation. > Why have you chosen the one you have?
I get ideas which change with my moods. What I felt was honestly right
one minute might not be the next. I buy things on urges and then wonder why I wasted the money. I start looking for wise answers and
then get bored.
I know where you are coming from with this and I am gradually managing to be better.
--
Paul. Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:32:31 PDT
From: "Gloria Lee" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu, lobATnospamlineone.net
Subject: Re: More name calling Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
> >> Dear Sweet, Foolish, Maddened, Saint Lobbie,
> and once you get your claws into=20 >> someone..you merely provoke more squirming to get away. Please let
go=20 >> and=20
>> let Brent swim another day. He can be most pleasant, just take my word =
> >> for it.=20
> >Why?
>To please you? Because you say so?=20 SNIP
Just as I know you are well meaning and = >ineffectual.=20
>Why do you continually give advice - knowing it to be irrelevant and not =
>taken? It is because you are so 'vulnerable' in your position of = >'non-defense' that I can not reflect too unkindly. If I did you would =
>see yourself perhaps too clearly as gentle and ineffective.
>So here is a little smiley for you :-)=20
>and I of course apologise for any pain I have not caused. >
>Lobster >(protecting Brent from the well meaning Glo)
> Dear Smiley,
Oh go ahead and bite me...I asked for it, didn't I?? Reflect away!! At least Brent is safe, now that you are protecting him from me. I would
stick to just posting poetry, but.... You probably don't like my poetry, either..sniff, sniff..
Vulnerable is not as fragile as you may think...
I have been known to get my way against Big Old Blue Cross, lawyers, ex-husband, insurance adjustors, the police, credit card
companies...oh the stories I could tell..even got a car loan when I was unemployed and had just been deserted by the first hubby...that's how
"ineffectual" I am. SO... I may choose to be "gentle"...but you are the one who does not
quite have a clear picture of me, Lobbie, I am also a survivor of far worse than anything you can ever do or say about me.
Still smiling,
Glo
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:51:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: Angela Mary Broad To: Paul West
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Introduction to me
Message-Id:
Hello Paul
I just read your 'introduction to me' and it's similar in a way to things
that have always happened to me. This will be a good deal shorter because my last exam is on friday. I too have had terror-dreams around the age of
4-6 I would be in a world of deep red, looking down into some dark green bushes, trying to bend over and reach something I had dropped, a female
wich would come up behind me, grab my back and pull it apart like a paper clip. This would be acompanied with a rushing energy senseation, but very
hot an painfull and not at all pleasent. I would get up at night to go to the batheroom, decide I wanted to go upstairs to see my parents, and as
soon as I reached the bottom of the stairs, there would be a cord, or a powerfull (almost mean) prescence would pull me back. I was always
frightened. I used to have obe's a lot, one time I even walked through my mom, she was walking down the hallway dreaming and she didn't see me.
Around January 1-4 of (I think it was) 1994 every night before bed I would get sensations in my solar plexus chakra. It was like an energy
-rushing-opening feeling the first 2 nights. On the thrid night it was removed (an energy ball was taken -out- of me) and on the fourth night it
or another one was put back in. I would dream of aliens fixing hull breaches in my back. They used something that resembled a flashy thing
but it changed the electro-magnetic (oh um their in this room now um...um..presences...) potential of the human body somehow. One time I
was lying on my stomach in a dream-like state and there were about 3-5 of them standing around. They were about to touch my back with this thing and
I became terrified and kicked out. The blanket came off and I energy shifted back to my own dimension/woke up. Thing is, the blanket was still
on... After that they kept saying 'thi' in a sharp whisperd voice. Have you herd them say that? It always scares me because when ever they use
that thing my back feels tingly and shaky and funny the whole next day. I usually take that frame of mind that they are going to do what ever they
will whether I make an effort to stop them or not, so ther's noting I can do about it and fear is not constructive anyway. Thing is, -mostly- this
doens't help much. Do you have any good ways to deal with this alien-fear? I once had a dream where I first past a test dealing with pink
dimention-reality cards and there was a group of seven or nine who was sitting in the living room. We had been together for millions of years,
they said. Their gentle spiritual humor filled me with the most kind funny peacefull wise joy ever...my grandma was one of them :) Two more things, I
see/sense the big small thing. The only visuall aproxamation I can give ou is to look at a corner in a ceiling and stare and stare and eventually you
will get a sense of extremely unsettleing unreality. Close your eyes, the thing is at once very large and very small all at the same time. Try it,
it's fun :) My dad sees it and that's all so far. The other thing is very recently I have been seeing visions of what I call 'My Angel' she looks
just like me only with more love and wisdom radiating from her, always beaming, behind her is soft white light. I can see her/me whenever and
it's so wonderfully fun and funny :) I don't have many answeres for you exept what you no doubt have alread read, books like 'Nothing In This Book
Is True But It's Exactly How Things Are" and "Kunalini, a gentle guide for chakra awakeining" and "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" and anything else by
Richard Back, those books which give diagrams how how chakras and then evergy particles work but that's it. I think the fear is heart centered.
I'm trying to work on opening my heart right now, I hope it will help the fear to dissapate, but I still feel presences and it makes me
uneasy... I know the back energy and all that is most likely Kunalini. The alien stuff is most likely the aliens, the angel is my higher self,
the big small thing, well when I was three I thought that God lived in corners.. so I don't know... One thing you may know, my brother is now
into discovering himself and his psychic abilities, he is an incredible projector and can initiate mind links like anything. We used to share
dreams all the time when we were 5-12 years old. I used to be able to have links like this too, but I had a few which were disconected suddenly and
painfully and havent been able to do it since, but I havent been conscious of this because of the amount of time school takes up, so now I'm
realizing what's happened, i'm not telpathicly or emotionally conected much anyomore and I want to fix it. Know of a good catalyst? or a gentle
way to open one's self up again? (this is for all of you, not just Paul) It feels so sad that it's not there anyomre and that I didn't even notice
it leave... but anyways, It was wonderfull to read about your experiances Paul, and best of luck always :)
Sincerily, Angie
(shine, the sky is -not- the limit!!!) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:58:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rik To: lobATnospamlineone.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, rik_wATnospamrocketmail.com Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID:
Lobster wrote:
> My trainee Guru (more like a grrr - at the moment) refuses to believe > in God or make any efforts towards spirituality. I recently
coaxed him > into a Buddhist monastery for 15 minutes instruction with the abbot. > "What is your contribution to society?" demanded Swami
Petal.
Rik: A thank you for a remarkable anecdote, and best
wishes for you and your trainee. At the very least I hope that Swami Petal may recognize the Abbot's "networkability"
and discover a Self-ish and universal value in that.
> However here are my tests to see if someone is enlightened. >
> 1. Enlightened people are recognised by others of similar attainment. > 2. Same as above
> 3. Different from the first method but identical to the second
Beautiful definitions!
Here are others (with no small bit of 'kick' to them):
1) To be enlightened is just to be "better" (calmer, freer, self-awarer, etc.) than those who aren't
2) You are enlightened when I recognize you as such 3) When you are enlightened, (please don't laugh!)
other enlightened people will laugh at your jokes
> Be Well > Lobster (never going to be enlightened at this rate)
Don't fret Lobster. You've passed your own test #3,
and I hereby dub thee enlightened. You may not refuse your honorary adjective.
Be Good. Rik
---Ed Jason wrote: >
> > Harsha: Well put. One contemporary approach to this is seen in the claims of
> > "gurus" who claim to be "enlightened." The logic is that because the "guru"
> > is enlightened whatever he does and says must be enlightened behavior. Given
> > the sexual and financial and ethical scandals surrounding "enlightened gurus"
> > this logic is problematic. Indeed, most gurus claiming to be enlightened
> > exhibit a high degree of confusion and conduct not worthy of even our elected
> > officials. Yet many disciples insist that confusion, lack of restraint, lack
> > of any clarity are perfect evidence for the high state attained by their guru.
> > The spiritual circus is both a comedy and a tragedy in that it is very much
> > like life. >
> You think this is problematic? > My trainee Guru (more like a grrr - at the moment) refuses to
believe in God or make any efforts towards spirituality. I recently coaxed him into a Buddhist monastery for 15 minutes instruction with
the abbot. "What is your contribution to society?" demanded Swami Petal. Used to this sort of crass ignorance the Abbott patiently
explained that society would be much poorer without monasteries - which is true. Anyway this is a lot better than our previous visit to
a Buddhist temple were the worlds first Agnostic Guru in his rush to leave, promised the Head monk that we would return to meditate and
rushed to put on his shoes and raced maniacally for the front gates. That was several months ago and we have not returned. How is he ever
going to become enlightened if he is not even interested in enlightenment? His selfish insistence on making no spiritual progress
is holding me back. At this rate I will soon be regressing. However Swami does have experience of Indian Gurus - he says they should get a
job. I intend to go to a Zen Monastery soon, the trainee will have to be kept away as a fight may ensue.
> However here are my tests to see if someone is enlightened. >
> 1. Enlightened people are recognised by others of similar attainment. > 2. Same as above
> 3. Different from the first method but identical to the second >
> Be Well > Lobster (never going to be enlightened at this rate)
> >
> >
> >
>
_________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free ATnospamyahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:58:50 -0500
From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" To: "Kundalini List"
Subject: Meditation April 23th Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BD6E39.D51423A0"
Just to remind about the mediation
It is on thursday 23th at 6.30 pm (eastern time).
To get the time for your city go
to:
http://www.mich.com/~timezone/
The meditation, as you know is about world healing. Pass it on to your friends and let`s all get togeteher.
Love to you all!
Roberto Lima, Peru.
DISCLAIMER!
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