1998/04/22 11:07
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #319
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 319
Today's Topics:
Re: curious [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
RE: S.O.S. (Slightly Off Subject) [ Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserv ]
Delirium's guide to the universe... [ Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com> ]
Re: Reply to MMeyers [ tompatterson28ATnospamjuno.com (Tom Patter ]
Re: Delirium's guide to the universe [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: Taking Jerry (UN)seriously [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Delirium's guide to the universe [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Re: Delirium's guide to the universe [ Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com> ]
Re: curious [ John Heaton <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com ]
Re: Delirium's guide to the universe [ Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com> ]
Saint or Sinner? [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: Be Well [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: curious [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: Pleasure [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: Only you [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: Pleasure [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: The past [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Re: to paul west [ "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon. ]
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:16:11 -0700
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: Sen Ashanka <sashankaATnospamaismi.ais.it>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID: <353E17CB.4F9AF7B7ATnospamtransbay.net>
Thank you for your explanation...It was what I was trying to say through
analogies and failing to explain clearly.
Dan M.
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:07:01 -0400
From: Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
To: "INTERNET:kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: RE: S.O.S. (Slightly Off Subject)
Message-ID: <199804221207_MC2-3AAE-8E61ATnospamcompuserve.com>
Content-Disposition: inline
Michele,
The only thing you can do in circumstances like these is to move out to an
apartment somewhere else, or another apartment in the same building -
Make a tactical retreat; be pragmatic, it's a distraction you can do without,
so why put up with it any longer than you have to, especially when you have the
choice. Just make sure your next location isn't a case of "out of the fire,
into the frying pan".
Tom
Hi All,
Am posting my problem concerning noise from my neighbor's apt. below me in my
high-rise because I've read that one k-symptom is (over) sensitivity to
sound...& I'm wondering how others have dealt w/this situation.
The specifics: I work at home. When I wake up in the AM, my apt.
reverberates from this guy's music, which he seems to play round-the-clock.
Thruout the day, when I return home after going on an errand & such, the apt.
is still reverberating. This guy has stamina. Even tho' I typically stay up
'til midnite or 1 AM, he outlasts me...so, I wake up to the apt. reverberating
& it is still reverberating when I go to sleep; the sound/vibration is
omnipresent.
Seems easy enuff? Just ask him to turn it down? Well the problem is, his
music habit is much improved from before. He used to have parties twice a
week, typically BLASTING me out of bed at 2 or 4:30 AM! Turns out, he's best
friends w/the apt. manager, & I didn't get any results until after calling the
police several times a wk, as well as the management co... & threatening to
sue!
So, this guy no longer has parties, but as far as I can tell, he NEVER leaves
his apt. & he NEVER turns off the music! I would like to "experience" my apt.
w/o it reverberating, so I ask you k-list: How do I "transcend" this
experience? The guy isn't currently breaking any laws per se, I can't afford
the cost of sound-proofing my apt., & I do not wish to reinstigate a
previously adversarial relationship w/everyone involved--especially if this
neighbor already has significantly altered his lifestyle for me...& perhaps I
am a little more sensitive to noise than most people.
Thx for "listening." --Michele
P.S. (I even went so far as to go to a hypnotherapist for this, but he said
it would take a fairly long time to help me, & the long-term cost of this
approach is prohibitive.)_
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:23:26 +0100
From: Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Delirium's guide to the universe...
Message-ID: <353DC51B.ED7E7F24ATnospamfull-moon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
1) Whatever I "have", I want something different...
2) When I "get" that different something, it's never quite as I imagined it would be...
3) If it "makes me happy" there has *got* to be something wrong with it, or with me...
4) If *somebody* "makes me happy", there has *got* to be a catch, or something wrong with that person...
5) I can only live in the present moment...but I can only *think about* the past or future...
6) Maybe if "I" get "rid" of "ME" then, just maybe, whatever is left will be truly happy...
Anybody else on this not-so-merry-go-round? I know the "real" rules are much different, but keep getting caught up in this pattern...K-awakened or not. Mebbe it's just what it means to be a human...monkey mind tries to pluck the dates from the jar yet again...
--Deliriously unsatisfied---Kath
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:29:02 EDT
From: tompatterson28ATnospamjuno.com (Tom Patterson)
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Reply to MMeyers
Message-ID: <19980422.093525.4263.0.tompatterson28ATnospamjuno.com>
From: Tom Patterson
To: MMeyers (and all list)
RE: Noise
I am also very sensitive to noise. I have not associated this to K but I
have noticed the sensitivity does seem a little unreasonable at times so
maybe it is K.
Anyway, in a situation such as you describe with bothersome music that is
out of your control, I use what I call mental karate or magic. What I do
is attune to the eternal Universe using any kind of simple harmonizing
technique available, then realize myself as the eternal child
experiencing this time bound creation through this mortal body. During
this process, all negative emotions such as anger, worry, fear, etc are
released in the complete forgiveness of this eternal moment. This causes
a noticable change in the way I feel about all life. Then, within this
sacred moment, I am a powerfull creative force effortlessly influncing
and bending this creation according to what I really want. (For good or
bad, we are 'want' driven beings).
After establishing this conection, I feel much better and things that
bothered me before seem to melt away in various mysterious ways and I
just enjoy life and seek beauty
This gets results for me. Not revenge or justification, just simple
noticeable (to me only) results.. We are 'want' driven beings and the
Universe works to give us what we want.
Tom
_____
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:31:47 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe...
Message-ID: <8f63a0d1.353e1b75ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 4/22/1998, 12:22:17 PM, deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com writes:
<<Anybody else on this not-so-merry-go-round? I know the "real" rules are much
different, but keep getting caught up in this pattern...K-awakened or not.
Mebbe it's just what it means to be a human...monkey mind tries to pluck the
dates from the jar yet again...
--Deliriously unsatisfied---Kath
>>
Harsha: Do not mind your mind. Do it with awareness. There are no rules.
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:31:56 PDT
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Taking Jerry (UN)seriously
Message-ID: <19980422163156.18330.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Jerry wrote:
But, hey, that's just
>between you and me and does not go beyond these four walls.
Glo: And the 400+ on the list??? Promises, promises...you men practice
this selective deafness so well, too. (I TOLD you it's too late,
anyway..but do you listen?? Noooo)
>Glo Lee wrote:
>BUT
>> Will you take me out for Chinese food and PAY for it, even??
>
>
>Jerry wrote:
>I think at this point I would like to discuss Kundalini.
>
>Did someone say PAY?
Glo: One of the side effects of K is a craving for Chinese food.
I am not a cheap date, Jerry. (Having degenerated to this level
of sexist bantering proves NOTHING.. I can say anything I want, you
said so yourself.)
<SNIP>
>
>
>You are funny, smart, sweet and wonderful. What are you doing hanging
>out with a borderline nutcase like me?
>
>Love,
>Jerry
Dear Jerry,
It appears I must be rather desperate for flattery, but let me hasten
to assure you that your sincerity, wit, and wisdom are obviously more
important to me than your mental status exam scores.
(We nutcases have to stick together..who else will
understand us??)
Love, Glo
PS.. May I use you as a reference next time I apply for a job??
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:00:34 -0700
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com, Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe...
Message-ID: <353E2231.C7C98AE0ATnospamtransbay.net>
7) If I don't like something it's a bad thing.
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:56:57 +0100
From: Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com>
To: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>, The List <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe...
Message-ID: <353DDAFA.D171026FATnospamfull-moon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Harsha1MTM wrote:
> >>
> Harsha: Do not mind your mind. Do it with awareness. There are no rules.
Do you mean do not *obey* or do not *care about* or do not *tend* your mind? Or
is there a difference?
And thanks for reminding me...I keep forgetting Rule Number Zero which is, as you
point out, that there are no rules. Rules...human constructs to restrict the
limitlessness?
--Kath
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 12:43:30 -0500
From: John Heaton <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com>
To: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
CC: sashankaATnospamaismi.ais.it, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID: <353E2C42.6F6FATnospampsbnewton.com>
Harsha1MTM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/22/1998, 8:57:19 AM, sashankaATnospamaismi.ais.it writes:
>
> <<Sashanka: An enlightened person simply behaves the way he/she likes to
> behave, irrespective of anything else.
>
> Harsha: So does an ignorant person! Sorry Ashanka. I expect to be in this
> mood until the end of the week. Its the position of the planets and the stars
> you see.
>
John:
Hmmmmmm....And the more one knows, the more one realizes how little one
knows (unless of course, one knows One)......enlightened ignorance??
Gotta be...
Jumbo shrimp anyone??
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:02:16 +0100
From: Kathy <deliriumATnospamfull-moon.com>
To: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>,
The List <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Delirium's guide to the universe...
Message-ID: <353DDC38.FF7983E2ATnospamfull-moon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Dan Margolis wrote:
> 7) If I don't like something it's a bad thing.
Yes, that's a *good* one!!!
Particularly when Rule Number Zero is applied. (see reply to Harsha)
Now somebody hand me that hammer so this monkey girl can break the date
jar and retrieve the goodies clutched tightly in my paw!
--Kath
What do I want to do when I grow up? Who said anything about growing up,
anyhow?
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:06:17 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Kundalini list" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Saint or Sinner?
Message-Id: <199804221800.TAA01290ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
However many holy words you read, how many you speak, what good will they
do you if you do not act upon them?"
These words I recently posted are *not* ascribed to Charles Manson as I stated but are in fact the words of the Buddha. You can probably now see how spiritual they are . . .
Lobster
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:09:13 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: <CttlemanATnospampsbnewton.com>
Cc: "Kundalini list" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>,
"Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Be Well
Message-Id: <199804221800.TAA03908ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> John:
> "In much of the literature incorporating the teachings of ancient
> wisdom, the first expression, or outpouring, of Supreme Being is said to
> be Love, which became the Force and Energy of Creative Power. Thus the
> first abgel is the source of all powers and the cause of all
> manifestations....
> In the tarot this angel is symbolized by the card numbered zero, while
> the twenty-one major trumps represent manifesting aspects, expressions,
> or emanations of the zero card. It's name is the *Fool*, which
> paradoxically is very approiate. For example, just imagine what an
> ordinary person would think if he or she overheard someone say, 'No
> matter who you are or what you have done, I love you. I love you as my
> Self with no strings attached. You are free, and I have no concerns
Thanks John for a further reminder of the spiritual nature of the *Fool*. With this card we are reminded of the circular nature of the *Fool*. Driven on by their lower nature (usually symbolised by a small dog) the ordinary person is driven into the abyss of life. They search through the different stages of the path symbolised by the cards of the Major Arcana. They start to see and reflect on the cause of their seeking and actions which is their own folly. At some point they become the *Cosmic Fool*, realising the nature of the deck they have been dealt. Understanding the little dog that urges them is none other than the reverse of god. Now they driven by their higher nature (Love) and once again like a *fool* step out into the abyss . . .
Foolish enough to be
Lobster
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:32:05 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Harsha1MTM" <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>, <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>,
<margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: curious
Message-Id: <199804221800.TAA22075ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> Harsha: Well put. One contemporary approach to this is seen in the claims of
> "gurus" who claim to be "enlightened." The logic is that because the "guru"
> is enlightened whatever he does and says must be enlightened behavior. Given
> the sexual and financial and ethical scandals surrounding "enlightened gurus"
> this logic is problematic. Indeed, most gurus claiming to be enlightened
> exhibit a high degree of confusion and conduct not worthy of even our elected
> officials. Yet many disciples insist that confusion, lack of restraint, lack
> of any clarity are perfect evidence for the high state attained by their guru.
> The spiritual circus is both a comedy and a tragedy in that it is very much
> like life.
You think this is problematic?
My trainee Guru (more like a grrr - at the moment) refuses to believe in God or make any efforts towards spirituality. I recently coaxed him into a Buddhist monastery for 15 minutes instruction with the abbot. "What is your contribution to society?" demanded Swami Petal. Used to this sort of crass ignorance the Abbott patiently explained that society would be much poorer without monasteries - which is true. Anyway this is a lot better than our previous visit to a Buddhist temple were the worlds first Agnostic Guru in his rush to leave, promised the Head monk that we would return to meditate and rushed to put on his shoes and raced maniacally for the front gates. That was several months ago and we have not returned. How is he ever going to become enlightened if he is not even interested in enlightenment? His selfish insistence on making no spiritual progress is holding me back. At this rate I will soon be regressing. However Swami does have experience of Indian Gurus - he says they should get a job. I intend to go to a Zen Monastery soon, the trainee will have to be kept away as a fight may ensue.
However here are my tests to see if someone is enlightened.
1. Enlightened people are recognised by others of similar attainment.
2. Same as above
3. Different from the first method but identical to the second
Be Well
Lobster (never going to be enlightened at this rate)
Date: 22 Apr 98 16:58:01 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Pleasure
Message-Id: <353E2199.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi Anandayoti
> Very well said Paul. IMHO our senses are the medium, they do not produce
> anything except
> doing their assignments in different situations. There is something beyond
> the senses which
> react or response to the perception of situations which the senses carry
> back and forth from and to the mind. Or it is something even beyond the
> mind? On something else , yet beyond it all.
I dunno. I know that thought becomes created within the senses and
that is when they take on identity and the sensation degenerates. I
myself am a very sensual person, I like to touch, I like my eyes to be
greeted with harmoneous environments (nature) and when looking for the
ideal woman I look for someone who pleases all the senses including
the mind. But the past can invade the senses and things can turn into
darker pleasures and then the mind starts to go sleepy and have
daydreams involving figures from the past, set in the future, but
never in the present. I know that the senses when /clear/ can perceive
a bliss of acceptance rather than a sensory overload, but that's about
all that is `beyond' the mishmash of thought
--
Paul.
Date: 22 Apr 98 17:11:58 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Only you
Message-Id: <353E24DE.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi Mr Bozzi.
> > I have been having problems for some time with trying to please
> > everyone. I feel that I have to keep a person happy and that to
> > facilitate this I have to basically lie, and then it makes me
> > physically ill and I start to reach uncontrollably.
>
> You see yourself as apart from another. This is a type of self
> imposedexclusion. This type of belief causes much mischief and grief.
Yes. I feel kind of subconsciouslly pressured into being something of
a witness to life more than someone who interacts with it. I don't
talk much and my voice doesn't work that well. I feel really exposed,
acutely aware of other people. It's almost frightening. I feel equal
to people of all ages in a strange sort of way, like I a mediumistic
of them - even little kids many years younger than me, if I am not
careful I automatically go down to their level. I remember being in
town a while ago and seeing kids of 10 years old who seemed to have
something selfish about them. I am generally fairly shy and always
have been. Confidence may be a problem too, as is courage and
willpower. I am very calm mostly, cool, cold even, and am not at all
at-ease beiny around firey people. I sleep a fair bit and have lots of
dreams, and I keep losing myslf into daydreams unless I'm happy. I
have always felt different, always been inclined to work alone and to
do better that way because it meant I could just shut everyone else
out and focus. I felt this was being mature, serious. People took that
seriousness as pessimism. Maybe it is. I can be witty sometimes, but I
notice i do like to be the center of attention. I need to be loved I
think, and the world doesn't seem to be providing it.
>
> > I keep losing myself, keep denying the way I really feel
> > for the sake of not altering the way other people feel.
>
> If one Centers for oneself one Centers for All.
I don't understand what you are saying???
--
Paul.
Date: 22 Apr 98 17:20:58 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Pleasure
Message-Id: <353E26F9.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi David.
> Pleasure hides. It diverts you from looking into the hell you
> might dispel by softening it with awareness.
I think you are correct. Is it wrong then for someone to have a hate
for something that appears to be unpleasant?
I read a very intriguing piece of text which was a conversation
between jiddu khrishnamurti and some psychologist woman. When she
asked him about what he thought of those who helped and why this was
not a good thing, he burst out with some kind of immense hatred for
all forms of helping, calling it a curse, and yet he did not seem to
refrain from being enlightened.
I am wondering if I do the same or not. I mean, hatred is usually put
down and told to be hidden and all that but it has some properties of
mental rejection and self control which hold illusions at bay.
Sometimes I really feel that i hate industry and business and that I
hate people who want to `get to know' you over a period of time, I
prefer immediate and total intimacy. And the intimacy I feel is really
frequently upset by the rejection of it by others in what appears to
me as a lack of wisdom and a general spiritual sleep. So I have a
great fondness of beauty and orderliness, I have an eye for symmetry
and things being in their right place. I have taste, I have some
class, I have what seem to be ideologies. Is this wrong?
> > Sadness sets in.
>
> You carried sadness all the time. You forgot while pleasure
> diverted you.
Very interesting!
> It's like you're seeking the sun on a cloudy day
> and so you decide to bury your head in the ground.
> Got your attention off the bad weather, but did you find the sun?
> Look *through* the clouds on this sunny day.
It is hard figuring out which things come before which things, you can
easily try covering up something good in thinking that it is bad.
--
Paul.
Date: 22 Apr 98 16:48:40 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: The past
Message-Id: <353E1F68.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
> Anandajyoti> Here also I have applied the procrastination technique with
> intention and awareness and have found in many instances, a day or two
> after, the perceptions have taken a different turn and I could live with
> the outcome happily, without remorse.
Remorse is much the underlying factor of any sadness I experience.
It's always to do with distance away from the present. For unknown
reasons I will just cunjour up some hypothetical situation like the
receipt of an email by someone I don't know, in which I am telling
them something about how sad I am or how things went wrong or
whatever, always negative. Being of the star-sign `Taurus' I
understand it is common for Taureans to feel remorseful, it can really
eat me up.
--
Paul.
Date: 22 Apr 98 17:27:39 +0000
From: "Paul West" <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: to paul west
Message-Id: <353E288B.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hi Trexis.
> Just be genuine.
>
> All of those thoughts and feelings that you are putting so much effort
> into
> are just to maintain illusions. Aren't they?
Perhaps. I feel that I am concerned very much about the way I appear
to other people, about what other people are thinking of me and of
other things, which is perhaps me indirectly. I don't like people to
think of me as bad or ugly or whatever.
> What could all of these
> illusions
> be needed to hide? Some AWEFUL UGLYNESS? Some idea that your ego
> isn't perfect?
Maybe. I did go through a bit of a tuff time with a person I really
didn't get along with who was very insensitive towards me, and my ego
flared quite a bit and I got to learning that I wasn't as right.
I have this feeling that I know what is best for people. I don't mean
it to be egotistical but I feel people are doing things unwisely and
unnaturally, things that I cannot relate to. I can appear to be a bit
snobby perhaps but I don't mean to. I'm an idealist perhaps. I feel
that other people aren't perfect and that I don't like this and that I
want them to be less damaging towards me. I don't like socialising all
that much, it is too demanding.
> Mabey the only one falling for all of this talk is you,
> and everyone
> can see that the naked emperor is just an asskissing dickhead?
:)
> Love and compassion are supposed to be EASY. Water flows, light shines,
> love gives and forgives.
> Stop.
> Take off the masks.
I would really love things to be much easier, much more effortless. I
know that when things are good they just sort of work and it's natural
but when things get negative it is such a struggle, such an effort. AS
the negativity.
>
> tactfully yours
> Edward
Ta.
--
Paul.
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