1998/04/21 23:39
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #317
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 317
Today's Topics:
Re: loba's prelude(mild thang) [ valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska. ]
Re: Head tingles [ Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.te ]
Sadness [ Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co ]
AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Cen [ Edgar Chase <DrEOCATnospamAOL.com> ]
Re: Pleasure [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Re: undefended are invulnerable [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Taking non-duality (UN)seriously [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Re: Truth and Love [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Re: Re: HRTZEN: waiting on a friend( [ AES3DDD <AES3DDDATnospamaol.com> ]
S.O.S. (Slightly Off Subject) [ MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: curious [ "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhot ]
Re: curious [ Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net ]
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:51:46 +0000
From: valerie cooper <madammumATnospamptialaska.net>
To: Jeanne Garner <jeannegATnospamicon.net>
CC: loba kola <lobakolaATnospamcsrlink.net>, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: loba's prelude(mild thang)
Message-ID: <353C884B.7EB2ATnospamptialaska.net>
Jeanne Garner wrote:
>
> At 07:09 PM 4/20/98 +0000, valerie cooper wrote:
>
> >v: okay hi loba kola! welcome to the 'totally right-brained club'!
> >maybe we should start a new newslist named 'Lysdexics Untie'!
>
> What's really ironic is that as I read this message, those last two words
> were the only ones spelled right. Happens often...
>
> lysdexic and pourd of it,
v: how's that song go...?
'*mild thang* (na-na-na-na-na)
yew make ma heart sang (na na na na na)
yew make everythang *groovy*
Na na na na - mild thang - ah thank ah LUV yew...
Na na na na -
But ah wanna KNOW, fer shure!'
sing it!
--
for what it's worth;
valerie cooper
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/7982/index.html
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:05:47 +0200
From: Danijel Turina <sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Head tingles
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980421220547.00931c20ATnospampop.tel.hr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Sharon! :)
(Me catching up with the list, finally;)
At 14:07 1998.04.20 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi,
>Peg wrote:
>>She said the phenomenon
>>was kundalini refining the "vayus" (a good thing).
>
>But what IS the "vayus?"
Are. :) Prana vayu means something like "energy wind", energy flow.
Actually there are several different phenomena involved in that; the crown
chakra activity may come from the inside (K movement inside the head,
working its way out) or the outside (that's the thing you're describing,
like your hair is electrically charged in some way, or little pricking
sensations, or feeling of pressure etc.). It is very easy to open your
crown by listening to the music you love, the powerful stuff.
>And are the rest of you into scratching the tops of your heads to relieve
>the tingle? I hafta go into my monkey act 20 or 30 times a day.
Don't do that, not a good idea - it stops the feeling but it closes the
subtle energy flows; the right thing is to just let it happen and even
assist it by observing it, observe the part of your head where you've got
the feeling, and by observing the other parts - not forcing anything - you
can bring the feeling there. It actually opens up your crown resources.
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: 21 Apr 98 22:47:52 +0000
From: Paul West <paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Sadness
Message-Id: <353D2218.MD-0.196.paulATnospamstationone.demon.co.uk>
Hello
One of my favourite books when I was a kid was called `the
brainsharpeners'. I used to imagine them as aliens with
pencil-sharpeners on their heads. I liked that.
. . .
Besides that little excursion into happyness, I have a problem with
sadness. Seems some other people here have a problem with it too.
There's almost a kind of dilemma in which you don't want other people
to follow you but at the same time it makes you feel like you don't
want to be loved. I find personally that being sensitive makes things
very hard work. There are escapes to such sadness, perhaps some
singing, shutting the self away, hiding, doing something that makes
you forget temporarily. But there is still the dilemma of trying to be
alone without being unhappy.
I feel that I am not allowed to be happy or that I have a perception
of other people not wanting me to be happy, or generally not giving a
toss. Sometimes I am not sure wether I am unhappy for myself or for
someone else. At work several weeks a go a woman who I had observed as
being somewhat lost and in dispair was having a terribly bad cough.
She sounded really awful and I was nearby at the time. And, kind of
surprisingly, I was crying inside.
I don't know if maybe I am taken in by the /image/ of things rather
than what is real. I don't like grotty unharmonious environments, I
hate them. I don't talk much and I don't like talking much either and
people treat me in a way I don't like as a result. I just can't put
what I perceive as my reality into words. I mean, there are surface
words about stupid things, mundane things, ego things, which are
easily talked about. `Wahey yea let's get pissed', or other childish
things. But if someone ever asks me a question, I will spend a little
time simply observing, and I try to get that observation into words
but it just wont come. It's too whole. The words are so empty and
meaningless.
I have a profound ability to do what is called lying, except that I do
it with a tremendous honesty. If that's possible. I mean, there is
such a thing as a statement being /true/ or false, but it is another
thing for there to be /truth/ in it. An unenlightened man could say
the words "We are the world and the world is one with us" but even
though that is true there is no truth in it, IYSWIM. So I find it very
easy to say things which are not technically true, which do not adhere
to the conventions of such an empty framework. But when I do it I feel
that I am doing it wisely, that it is the best way to prevent
unpleasantness. Sometimes it is the only way to maintain sanity it
seems. But oh there are many people who scorn and whinge when you lie,
and there is something empty about those people, something hollow and
unwhole about them.
For as long as I can remember, since way back in school times, there
were often people saying to me `cheer up, it might never happen'. I am
a serious person, you see, and to just about everyone that seriousness
is pessimism. And, to be honest, it is not difficult for it to become
pessimism for myself, and then it is sadness. And even though it might
seem kind of comforting and all that to be happy and to be smiling all
the time, it doesn't really quite seem real. There can become a real
problem with lonelyness which gets compounded by the ability to see
the ways in which other people are being unspiritual. Because your
divinity is never taken away it just gets covered up, and so whatever
you feel is what quite naturally anyone would feel given the
circumstances. It's the way the universe feels and looks when a person
freely chooses to be in that position. But I do try not to become
saddened.
It's not all selfishness though, I do feel a genuine goodwill towards
other people and it has always been a priority of mine to put other
people's happyness before my own. But it can be heavily depressing.
And there is this strange thing that happens when I start to smile and
it feels so huge, I feel my mouth wavering on the edge of constraint
as though either I am not allowed to or don't want to be seen like
that. I know that I have a practical wisdom and I know that there is a
lot about the western world that I really want to have nothing to do
with and it can really breed a feeling of lonelyness and dispair
sometimes. It's especially bad when I might start asking myself why I
have been left behind and why I have the feeling of having been left
behind, because that's like the ultimate lonelyness and sadness.
And the thing is that even after all this I don't think there is some
kind of a sudden tremendous happyness that can round the story off to
a happy ending because reality is just factual and not fantastical.
Lonelyness is what you feel when your aloneness starts to become
opposition for the mind and when you start to become selfish. One of
the hardest parts to realise about the sadness is that it is selfish
and that it revolves around a center, and the last thing you want to
be telling yourself when you're unhappy is that you are being
egotistical. So you have to do something else - compassion, and that
is the ending of lonelyness. It does not make you especially happy
again nor does it solve the imaginary problems that you had when
unhappy, but it sorts things out. You have to have compassion towards
yourself as much as if you were another person, to be gentle with
yourself and empathise with yourself, being careful that when you tell
yourself you are being egotistical you do it with love and not let a
whole bunch of negative attitudes bombard you. You have to get to the
position where you can observe the sadness, the selfishness, in a
serious and non-altering way, a way that has no result, a way that
does not add to or subtract from the thing itself. And if you do that
fully the sadness is replaced by clarity, in the very same action as
the observing, because looking properly at the problem is to solve it.
There are times when I think that I know what it is `like' to be
right. But there are other times when I don't. And I don't know if its
a certain way or some other way or which way is the right one but fact
is that none of them are right because there is no way and must be no
way. And that too can be a challenge - to experience face to face that
there is no way, that there is no escape, no way out, no way in, no
solution, no answer or result, that the problem has no key to unlock
it or to change it into something more acceptable. All you can do is
observe it clearly without mental comment.
--
Paul.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:08:40 -1000 (HST)
From: Edgar Chase <DrEOCATnospamAOL.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-Id: <199804220008.OAA27330ATnospamhaleakala.aloha.net>
A fellow acupuncturist has a patient who has had recent awakenings of his K. , but doesn't know how to deal with the tremendous energies involved. Are there any therapists or shaman or whoever out there who know how to guide this individual?
I have experienced kundalini back in college once, but lack the knowledge to guide this individual, but share a bond with him through his experience. I know I would want help if I were in his position.
Anyone with info can contact me at the aforementioned email address.
Thank you ahead of time.
Ed
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:32:33 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Pleasure
Message-ID: <353D56C1.3E8ATnospammail.snet.net>
Paul West wrote:
> But when there can be a change, when you can look
> at the hell, it changes also.
Keep looking. It might completely transform and who knows,
maybe disappear?
> Even so, there always seems to be this
> barrier which sais that you are trying to mix heaven and hell
> together, that you want to look honestly while at the same time see
> dishonesty, and that is simply unfaceable, and untrue.
That's an ego trick. Be honest about your dishonesty.
> And just when you notice that you are indulging in pleasure, the
> pleasure transforms and becomes displeasure
Pleasure hides. It diverts you from looking into the hell you
might dispel by softening it with awareness.
> Sadness sets in.
You carried sadness all the time. You forgot while pleasure
diverted you. It's like you're seeking the sun on a cloudy day
and so you decide to bury your head in the ground.
Got your attention off the bad weather, but did you find the sun?
Look *through* the clouds on this sunny day.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 20:15:58 PDT
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, lobATnospamlineone.net
Subject: Re: undefended are invulnerable
Message-ID: <19980422031558.26821.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>> S'ok.. Just tell me what you think you need, and I'll tell you how
>> to get along without it.
>>
>> Gloria
>
Lobster wrote back:
>I need more kindness and compassion in the world. I do get along
without =
>it. However much there was it would never be enough. Thanks for the =
>offer of advice. I always need that and you are a provider so doubtless
=
>your needs are met by advising . . .
Sweet Lobbie,
You know I just meant you could do without that crusty shell you
pretend to hide your soft side with...you haven't fooled us here for so
long..you may as
well change your nick. (But don't, I love it!) Giving and receiving are
essentially the same, since one requires the other to exist. You are
most right that you don't require my advice, tho .
>"Only the undefended are invulnerable"
>I find such a remark indefensible. Does this also work on speeding =
>trucks? Next you will be offering people spiritual advice as a form of
=
>self defence.
Oh, still look both ways before crossing the street..hold hands so you
don't get lost..but, very unseriously, have been shedding my emotional
defense mechanisms, as best I am able. Being willing to be vulnerable is
very much like being invulnerable, in some strange way.
Oh, I admit..there are days I feel like just one raw, exposed nerve.
But mostly, I do not get "stressed out" (I'm just a carrier..heheh)
Disclaimer:
"This is not spiritual advice. Do not try this at home. Best left to
professionals. Taking emotional risks may be hazardous."
There, feel better now Lobbie???
Glo
>
>Ed
>Needing no advice from Glo but happy to take it anyway :-)
>
>
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:10:43 -0700
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: Gloria Lee <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Taking non-duality (UN)seriously
Message-ID: <353D89E3.E2EATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Gloria Lee wrote:
>
> >
> >Jerry wrote:
> >Hey, just be funny, okay?, leave the heavy thinking to the men, who
> know
> >better.
Jerry wrote:
At work today, after I had written the above, my boss (a lady) brought
up the year 2000 problem, mentioning as an aside that that's what you
get when you have men designing these things. She got her laugh from the
ladies at the meeting.
Glo Lee wrote:
> Dear Jerry,
> Does this mean you will also keep me barefoot and pregnant???(sorry, too
> late for that, anyway)
Jerry wrote:
Yes, Glo Lee. I will try very hard to get you pregnant. I will try and
try and try to get you pregnant. I will work and work and work at
getting you pregnant. I'll drive it in, slam it in, again and again and
again and again...until....until....UNTIL.... But, hey, that's just
between you and me and does not go beyond these four walls.
Glo Lee wrote:
BUT
> Will you take me out for Chinese food and PAY for it, even??
Jerry wrote:
I think at this point I would like to discuss Kundalini.
Did someone say PAY?
Glo Lee:
> This could be my best offer yet..you will promise to do all the heavy
> thinking for me...and then just let me in on the secret of the universe
> once you get it all figured out?? Wowee, thanks, Jer!!!
Jerry:
Well, that's my role, I guess. Yup. Yup.
Glo Lee:
Now, I'm in need
> of your help....
> to figure out what to do with all my free time.
Jerry:
You can make sandwiches. I need lots of sandwiches. Piles of sandwiches.
Oyster sandwiches.
Glo Lee:
> It only seems "fair" I should get nagging privileges here in exchange.
Jerry:
What? I can't hear you. Must be a computer glitch. So I'll just mention
Nondualism or some bullshit like that...
Glo:
> (Wishfully thinking...hmmm???
> maybe ignorance WAS bliss, etc..) Now I have to be funny??? Yikes!!
You already are!
> You know, I told Bozzi my "Higher Self" ran away from home to do
> stand-up comedy - till Lobster beat her with a stick, and now God only
> knows where she is...
At The Improv in Santa Monica waiting tables and doing Sunday night open
mike.
> So Jer, stop being so "provacative"...I cannot help *it*
>
> "girls just wanna have fun"
> Glo
You are funny, smart, sweet and wonderful. What are you doing hanging
out with a borderline nutcase like me?
Love,
Jerry
_______
Nondualism
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:46:59 -0700
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: Anurag Goel <anuragATnospamBhaskara.ee.iisc.ernet.in>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Truth and Love
Message-ID: <353D9263.2624ATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Anurag Goel wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Even after total annihilation something remains which is living or
> non-living. So it exists with space. So truth and love exist together.
>
> Love,
> Anurag
Hi Anurag!
Yes. Realization is realization. It is not the sentences that are
composed to confess it. It is enough that you are realized. The day I
start looking only at the words and not at the person is the day I sign
up with Osho and them guys. I guess that is why Ramana was persistently
requiring his questioners to ask Who the questioner is.
I call my own nondualism thing foolishness while carefully looking after
my own website on it. You can't hold onto anything. Between the
foolishness of nondualism and the confessions of nondualism, there is a
seam of What Is. And that too breaks down to foolishness and
confessions...and so on...The trick is to stay within the seam, the
Interval. Some call the Interval Truth and Love. Okay. I call it the
Interval. Today. Tomorrow something else. It is not possible to hold
onto anything and survive that interval.
Love,
Jerry
__________
Nondualism
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada
"I have split evolution. I am the Interval. In that Interval there
neither is nor is not evolution. Evolution is no different than floor
sweeping."
The Wild Song of Standing Free, Ch.5, V.11
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:03:28 EDT
From: AES3DDD <AES3DDDATnospamaol.com>
To: lodpressATnospamintercomm.com, madammumATnospamptialaska.net
Cc: vandykeATnospammss355.dm.af.mil, CYBERMINDATnospamlistserv.aol.com,
heartzenATnospamlistserv.servtech.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Re: HRTZEN: waiting on a friend(update)
Message-ID: <6bd5fd59.353d6c12ATnospamaol.com>
Dear Valerie, Anita here. Thanks for sharing. Would like to agree with Gloria
about her comments in regards to Reno. My stepfahter was in the military and
we travelled A lot. I learned somewhere along the way that a location, any
location, was what you made it. I found that there were nice people
everywhere, especially if I was nice, and that there were not so nice people
everywhere, especailly if I was not so nice. As far as opening up your heart
is concerned, you may benefit from becoming quiet, observing, detaching, and
asking God to show you. Love, Anita. One for all and all for one.
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:50:16 EDT
From: MMeyers541 <MMeyers541ATnospamaol.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: S.O.S. (Slightly Off Subject)
Message-ID: <afc2b7d.353d7709ATnospamaol.com>
Hi All,
Am posting my problem concerning noise from my neighbor's apt. below me in my
high-rise because I've read that one k-symptom is (over) sensitivity to
sound...& I'm wondering how others have dealt w/this situation.
The specifics: I work at home. When I wake up in the AM, my apt.
reverberates from this guy's music, which he seems to play round-the-clock.
Thruout the day, when I return home after going on an errand & such, the apt.
is still reverberating. This guy has stamina. Even tho' I typically stay up
'til midnite or 1 AM, he outlasts me...so, I wake up to the apt. reverberating
& it is still reverberating when I go to sleep; the sound/vibration is
omnipresent.
Seems easy enuff? Just ask him to turn it down? Well the problem is, his
music habit is much improved from before. He used to have parties twice a
week, typically BLASTING me out of bed at 2 or 4:30 AM! Turns out, he's best
friends w/the apt. manager, & I didn't get any results until after calling the
police several times a wk, as well as the management co... & threatening to
sue!
So, this guy no longer has parties, but as far as I can tell, he NEVER leaves
his apt. & he NEVER turns off the music! I would like to "experience" my apt.
w/o it reverberating, so I ask you k-list: How do I "transcend" this
experience? The guy isn't currently breaking any laws per se, I can't afford
the cost of sound-proofing my apt., & I do not wish to reinstigate a
previously adversarial relationship w/everyone involved--especially if this
neighbor already has significantly altered his lifestyle for me...& perhaps I
am a little more sensitive to noise than most people.
Thx for "listening." --Michele
P.S. (I even went so far as to go to a hypnotherapist for this, but he said
it would take a fairly long time to help me, & the long-term cost of this
approach is prohibitive.)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:50:39 PDT
From: "Susan Carlson" <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>
To: margolisATnospamtransbay.net
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID: <19980422045040.4304.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Susan Carlson wrote:
>>
>> So what is the result of enlightenment? If a tree bears fruit there
are
>> several uses of the fruit and....
>>
>> Are you assuming the tree is capable of conscious thought and is self
>> aware? I am not asking a tree what enlightenment is for I have not
heard
>> of trees pursuing enlightenment.What's so hard about describing the
>> enlightened person?
>
>Perhaps, you misread my analogies.
yes, I may have.
An enlightened person is like a
>fruit-bearing tree. Giving in a natural fashion and completely
unconcerned
>with these processes.
Are you giving this tree human attributes, 'giving' and 'unconcerned'?
In anthropomorphizing the tree you presume a lot I think.
But if you were to discuss it with the tree(assuming
>the tree was open to discussions) it wouldn't understand the questions.
How do you know this is true knowing trees are not talking? do you
understand the 'mind' of the tree or are you projecting your own beliefs
about life and spirituality onto the tree? I am not trying to make fun
of you,Dan. I just dont think comparing trees to people is a good
example. As David said, 'maybe they know something' and i would add,
'they ain't telling either'
>it is is not for the tree to answer or explain. How would a fish
explain
>water?...
I dont know if they can or not. Fish aint talking either. I understand
air, without it I die. Fish certainly seem to know when they are not in
water and they sure look panicky to me when they aren't. When people are
unenlightened they behave one way and when they are enlightened they
behave another way, wouldn't you think?
>
>> >> So what are the traits of an enlightened person? Can we list
them?
>> >
>> >Let me get my tire pressure gauge out and measure the color of
>> water....
>>
>> Do you think my question is foolish? Why pursue something if you dont
>> know what's happening after you catch it? If you dont know, why not
say
>> so?
>
>In a way I think your question is foolish... The analogy again was
trying
>to explain it... Listing in an intellectual manner the traits of an
>enlightened person so that you could understand it is the equivalent of
>using the wrong measuring tool to try to understand an almost ethereal
>trait.
Here's where I outright disagree....traits which arise from
enlightenment are not always ethereal or even a heavenly trait, I think
they would be practical traits, of benefit to me and to those around me.
( of course, this is the way the universe looks to me :)))
I am reminded of something I heard in Bible College so long ago..."He
was so heavenly minded he was of no earthly good".
I think listing traits is not an intellectual exercise for understanding
enlightenment. I have had people show/tell me, saying, "there is an
enlightened person". I ask, 'how do you recognize that person to be so?'
Boy...some of the answers I hear and the backgrounds I know about these
'enlightened' people....it's scary. It may be what people call
enlightened behaviour and what is enlightened behaviour is not the same.
>The discussions build a framework for experience... The sufi analogy is
>tilling a field getting ready for a crop to grow. If you were
unfamiliar
>with farming you would notice this digging in the dirt ask how does
dirt
>have anything to do with bread? You can't eat dirt can you? This
activity
>seems completely unrelated. But if the field is plowed properly
eventually
>the experience, the understanding will come.
I understand the analogy as it stands but not how it applies to what we
are talking about.
>
>
>> There are results of being enlightened or are there only the
>> illusory,ethereal hopes and desires of a hungry mind?
>>
>
>Again this is a question that is hard to understand: If we use the
farm
>analogy the question you have have asked: Does bread exist or do rocks
>exist?
>
>Yes...
>
> Dan M.
>
>hopefully next time my postings will need less interpretation...
I honestly do not understand how the analogy relates to what we are
talking about. That is because I think that concrete examples of
enlightenment can be given. I think there are traits of an enlightened
person.
I once read a book by Guru Mai called "The Lord loves a pure heart" It
was a series of lectures given on virtues as outlined in the talk that
Krishna gives Arjuna. ( now since I am not a scholar, I cant tell you
which talk it was :D). I think that came pretty close to describing
the behaviour of an enlightened person, IMO.
My world view on enlightenment is it would (among other things) turn one
to service...a yoga of action....seva. I think that would be one marker
of enlightenment. If we can have symptoms of inner peace (another
marker)that may be a trait of enlightenment.
I have a question....if we are all a part of God, and some peoples are
enlightened and some are not, then god is not totally enlightenment? (
another foolish question but these things I want to know about).
So some part of god is not all light and some part of god is not all
dark...kinda like the yin yang symbol.
What if enlightenment is a dynamic process, non linear? Then Peswami
could feel he has lost his enlightenment. In church we used to say,
"once saved, always saved'. Are we once enlightened, always enlightened?
I am beginnging to think that the pursueing of enlightenment is
something of a cultural vanity, particularly when people are unable to
recognize or identify the traits of an enlightened person.
Late night ramblings,
Susan
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:06:00 -0700
From: Dan Margolis <margolisATnospamtransbay.net>
To: Susan Carlson <divine_goddessATnospamhotmail.com>,
Kundalini Mailing List <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: curious
Message-ID: <353D88C7.980BFBF9ATnospamtransbay.net>
> An enlightened person is like a
> >fruit-bearing tree. Giving in a natural fashion and completely
> unconcerned
> >with these processes.
>
> Are you giving this tree human attributes, 'giving' and 'unconcerned'?
> In anthropomorphizing the tree you presume a lot I think.
>
I may have anthropomorphized the tree but I was trying to treepomorphize
people... The root of the assumption is that a tree does what a tree does.
To people that seems to be giving. To a tree it is it's nature. An
enlightened person does as an enlightened person does.
> When people are
> unenlightened they behave one way and when they are enlightened they
> behave another way, wouldn't you think?
Not exactly...Before enlightenment carry water and chop wood...After
enlightenment carry water and chop wood.
> I honestly do not understand how the analogy relates to what we are
> talking about. That is because I think that concrete examples of
> enlightenment can be given. I think there are traits of an enlightened
> person.
I'm glad you think so.
> I once read a book by Guru Mai called "The Lord loves a pure heart" It
> was a series of lectures given on virtues as outlined in the talk that
> Krishna gives Arjuna. ( now since I am not a scholar, I cant tell you
> which talk it was :D). I think that came pretty close to describing
> the behaviour of an enlightened person, IMO.
>
> My world view on enlightenment is it would (among other things) turn one
> to service...a yoga of action....seva. I think that would be one marker
> of enlightenment. If we can have symptoms of inner peace (another
> marker)that may be a trait of enlightenment.
>
> I have a question....if we are all a part of God, and some peoples are
> enlightened and some are not, then god is not totally enlightenment? (
> another foolish question but these things I want to know about).
When I asked a similar question to a teacher he told me "This may seem
important to you now but eventually it won't concern you."
> So some part of god is not all light and some part of god is not all
> dark...kinda like the yin yang symbol.
>
> What if enlightenment is a dynamic process, non linear? Then Peswami
> could feel he has lost his enlightenment. In church we used to say,
> "once saved, always saved'. Are we once enlightened, always enlightened?
>
Yes
> I am beginnging to think that the pursueing of enlightenment is
> something of a cultural vanity, particularly when people are unable to
> recognize or identify the traits of an enlightened person.
>
Cultural vanity might be considered trying to limit the unfamiliar to
familiar terms.
DISCLAIMER!
Home | Archive Index | Search the archives | Subscribe
K. List FAQ | Kundalini FAQs | Signs and Symptoms | Awakening Experiences | K. list Polls | Member Essays | Meditations | List Topics | Art Gallery | Cybrary | Sitemap | Email the moderators.
symbol.