1998/04/17 01:41
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #301
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 301
Today's Topics:
Re: Snaky stuff [ "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc ]
Re: all that enlightenment my $.02 [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpent ]
Re: help! what's happening to me? [ Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpent ]
Re: Awakenings [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: help! what's happening to me? [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 03:05:30 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
To: <lobATnospamlineone.net>
Cc: "Kundalini - L" <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Snaky stuff
Message-Id: <35370ddc717b002ATnospammhub3.tc.umn.edu>
From: Ed Jason <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: Brent Blalock <blal0004ATnospammaroon.tc.umn.edu>
Cc: Kundalini - L <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Snaky stuff
Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 1:43 AM
>> I'm still not quite clear about what you're saying about non-verbal
wisdom
>> transmission. You could say to someone, "Early to bed, early to rise
>>makes
>> a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." If they're receptive, they'll apply
>> that knowledge, and, therefore, receive knowledge verbally. If that is
a
>> "superficial" truth, then what isn't?
>
> You are clear. You know what shakti is. If not look it up.
You mean that, "I am" thing? You mean that there's this thing watching our
thoughts and actions, that feels everything that we do, and that's what we
are, not a body or a personality? If so, are you saying that knowledge of
that nature (the nature of consciousness, samadhi, etc.) is the extent of
wisdom, and that how to handle relationships or insight into the dynamics
of human behavior or knowing how to handle the situations that come up in
life are not wisdom? That's hard to swallow.
> This must be the stupidest question one can ask:
> Please tell me in words what can not be said.
Um... That's not a question. You know what irony is. If not, look it up.
Actually, I think I remember some Zen guy answering a question like that.
His reply was, "mu".
>>> Everyone is raw and immature. It is a question of degree. As for the
>> path...
>>
>> And how do you know that this is the way? And what do you call "real"
>> qualities? Some people are of the opinion that freeing oneself from
>> attachment to things is the way, and that digesting information only
>> reinforces bondage to the material world (actively starting thoughts,
not
>> just letting them float by).
>
> You know another way?
Lack of counterexamples does not make a thing so. What you say sounds
baseless and false. Are you implying that I should believe you because I
don't have another explanation? That wouldn't be wise.
> Real qualities:
> kindness, generosity, truthfulness, lack of learnt opinions, direct
perception
> etc
Why do you say that only those qualities are real? What is false about
anger, sadness, pain, and selfishness? Do they not exist? And if not, how
could we talk about them or experience them?
> Freeing oneself of things? - what things? - the head? the ground? I am
> attached to everything in my life but I do not cling to their being or
their
> absence.
A classic form of miscommunication has occurred. When I said, "attached" I
meant what you said about clinging to object's being or not-being.
> Yes the 'empty mind' brigade are so busy allowing thoughts to float by,
> perhaps they will never think that there are lobotomy processes that will
> create this condition. Is anyone seriously saying you have a mind -
> don't use it?
Yes. As I am constantly reminded, people say all kinds of things that
other people would find "crazy." I think a word choice that explains their
view better would be, "You have a mind. It's in the way. There is
something beneath it worth uncovering. Learn to get it out of the way."
> You have a mind - use it. You are bonded to the material world - or have
you
> never thought of that? Perhaps you can let it just float by . . .
>
> the unkind, miserly, dishonest, opinionated, unperceptive Lobster
> floating by . . .
> floating by . . .
> floating by . . .
The following story is not true, but for simplicity and the sake of the
discussion, I will write as though it actually happened. ;)
A year or so ago, I used LSD. For years, I heard talk of hippies & stuff
using it to "expand their mind", which I thought was just a euphemism for
"escape a reality which they dislike". But I learned what they were
talking about. My description of the experience might not make sense to
those who have had no experience with hallucinogens or with meditation, but
here I go anyway...
When the experience started out, I had depth perception problems (not big
enough to affect functioning, but distances appeared all wrong). This is,
of course, only a mundane effect of the LSD.
A couple hours or so later, my sense of touch, the perception of the shape
of my body, and my thoughts got more and more bizarre. It felt like my
body parts were stretching, twisting, and moving. The shape that my body
felt like it was was very twisted and unusual. Even more bizarre were my
thoughts. You know how when you're sleepy and on the verge of falling
asleep, you'll sometimes start daydreaming and have thoughts that can't
really be explained fully using words alone? Well, my thoughts were
similarly complex, bizarre, abstract, and impossible to describe. My
thoughts were pure chaos.
The experience was not nearly as unpleasant as it sounds, and I did enjoy
experiencing something that unique. Overall, I the experience was slightly
more pain than fun, but the knowledge was worth the pain. The pain mostly
came from not being able to function as well (i.e., feed myself when
hungry, sleep when tired, etc.). Feeding myself (coordinating chewing and
breathing) was an adventure that I needn't get into here and now. But I
continue. (The jewel is yet to come.)
I used to be convinced that I was a body. But while I watched what was
happening... While I watched my mind disassembled in front of me... I
realized that it was just a chemical that did that. That extent to which a
chemical was capable of altering me amazed me. It was then that I saw how
mechanical I was... how much of myself is "hardware"... objects... of
the material world. But while that was happening, and very diverse parts
of my mind were being scrambled and mixed around, there was one thing that
stayed the same... One thing that stood out as the one constant amidst all
the chaos... And when I was aware of that one thing, all the chaos seemed
irrelevant. It was all unable to affect me. I knew it was there, could
respond to it, but it didn't matter.
I was quite surprised when I heard Hindus and yoga-types describe it. I
don't know if I can do a better job than they did when they described it.
Behind your mind and your ego or whatever words you choose to describe that
which does things, there is a thing. A neutral thing. It does nothing.
It watches. That is what I am. And when I'm in that state, aware of that
which watches, I just see things float by... And I let them float by...
So you're damn right I'm going to let things float by!
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:32:21 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Am <heidiATnospamadan.kingston.net>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: all that enlightenment my $.02
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980417013221.008b37b0ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Round about when this thread first started, for the umpteenth time.. it
is an endless wrangle, but a pleasant one.. I got up from my computer and
watched a movie which presented me with 2 gems of wisdom in answer to my
wondering on the topic. It has been a couple weeks, they are still fresh in
my mind.
The movie is Joe Vs. the Volcano. Recommended viewing for Kundalites.
Scene 1: Joe and the Mogul's daughter are talking about life, coz she is
not pleased with hers, and she sez "My Father says almost everyone alive is
asleep. They are walking around asleep. There are only a very few people
who are really awake, and those people walk around in a state of constant
utter amazement."
That resonated complete truth for me. Awake to the amazing magical wonder
of the gift of life itself.
The second memorable scene came at the end of the movie, when the lovers
have just miraculously escaped death yet again and they are astonished at
the beauty of the moon.. they are radiant and happy, when Joe descends to
rationality and points out that in the moment, they are still in a pretty
hopeless situation... She smiles with love and understanding and sez:
"Its just always gonna be something with you, isn't it Joe?"
That resonated equally true. We are the Tao, no matter how far we surf
into bliss and wonder, there will always be that little restless
unsatisfied part, somewhere waiting to come forth again when by our doubts
we show we are getting jaded with bliss and wonder. This is the dark that
motivates creativity, maintains appreciation, wonder and gratitude in their
freshness by comparison.
Us wanting "More Better, thankyou Goddess", with our hungry mouths and
appreciating the physical keeps us alive in duality.
What I have gathered from those wiser than me: too much focus on the
crown chakra without corresponding Earth grounding, and spirit might think
it's time to exit the body. Too long in Samadhi and your body will die..
The body will become more vulnerable and begin to malfunction and shut down.
Giving love and gratitude for the gift of the physical keeps it strong
and healthy.
At 08:52 PM 16/04/98 -0400, Am wrote:
>
>I'm with you 100%. I don't want to waste my life analyzing, disembling and
>categorizing it, I want to LIVE it!!! >LOVE and PEACE and always, LAUGHTER
>
>Am
>
>
>
> We are EVERYTHING and we are NOTHING
>
> (gleaned from an NDE account)
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:53:41 -0700
From: Mystress Angelique Serpent <serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com>
To: Matthew Bastress <mattbATnospamchrysalis.com>
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: help! what's happening to me?
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980417005341.007b38b0ATnospamdomin8rex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 06:31 PM 16/04/98 EDT, Matthew Bastress wrote:
>I have just stumbled onto this list and I already
>read two posts by Kathy(delirium) and Uwe who have
>these experiences. I can't believe it.
Peace be on you Matthew, and welcome.
>Kathy wrote:
>
>>This morning somebody woke up in my body and I don't think it was "ME"
anymore.
Kathy's ego is dissolving, and she is learning what life feels like
without it.. She will get used to not knowing who she is.. I did.. It is
kind of restful.. there is nothing to defend.
> Maybe it is altogether different and I'm just
>looking for another band-aid for the wound that people
>would call "psycho" if I showed it to them. (?)
>
Maybe, but I think it might be more profitable for you to consider that
folks have been awakening K and having paranormal experiences since we
painted cave walls, and the science that would judge you 'psycho' is an
infant by comparison. Perspective is everything.. psychiatry does not
understand the shaman or the guru. Goddess is not quantifiable in that way.
She scorns analysis and cherishes experiences that defy description.
>If you have the patience, thank you for reading this.
>Also, it has taken me a long time to become fairly
>objective about these bizarre experiences--I work
>40 hours a week at a computer and I have come to hate
>it because of the damned logic of it all. I guess
>I'm just not interested in splitting hairs--you see?
>
>When it started two years ago I was a monk.
Well, I am splitting hairs wondering what kind of monk you were, so I can
speak to you in terms with which you are familiar, but I'll wing it. Some
of your stuff I recognize. I don't quite have a handle on the whole picture
yet, but spirit prompts me to share anyways and will fill in the blanks as
I type.
The physical symptoms you experience.. writhing, nausea and dehydration,
as well as the vibrations and sense of presence, are classic Kundalini
awakening symptoms. Welcome to the club!
You have begun the process of enlightenment. Deity is making itself at
home in your body.
So step one is to relax!! You have been totally blessed, and Goddess has
it all handled. (Or whomever your Deity of choice that you put faith in
...insert Deity of choice in place of Goddess as you will)
> The awful thing was
>that it seemed to really hate me, and wanted to vomit all
>the time, and was writhing around like it was in hell.
Well, there is an important word.. seemed.
You interpreted your symptoms as punishment or abuse.. acts of violence
and hatred.
Please rethink that idea. Intense pleasure also causes writhing, and
there is a lot of nausea, screaming and blood at a birth. You are being
reborn. It may be painful and messy sometimes, but it is worth it.
You are perfectly all right, except that you are very scared. Don't be..
the fear is what this energy wants to clear away, it has to work harder if
you keep manifesting more, in response to It's work. This energy is doing
all of this out of absolute unconditional love for you, by the will of your
soul and the guidance of your spirit. It has also guided you here, so you
could learn to understand what is happening, and get past fearing It. Learn
to Trust. Surrender.
>I didn't like that at all after a while, so I stopped
>going along with it,
Well, I am afraid you must start again. Your resistance and fear is the
only thing that can harm you in this, and the harder you resist, the more
worn out you will get, because Goddess inevitably will win. You are Hers.
Avoid further warfare by surrendering, immediately to whatever She desires
of you. Honor your "Mother". She who created you.
> but it is always there, only
>now I try to be more objective about the symptoms so
>I don't freak out my mother or my doctor--vibrations
>everywhere (ankles, heart, teeth, skull), trembling,
>constrained breathing but symptoms of hyperventilation,
>pressure in my head, can't relax. Rapid dehydration.
>
You have been guided by circumstance to do exactly right, there. Observe
the symptoms like it is "men at work" remodeling your body while business
goes on as usual. Coz that is exactly what it is. Your total being, mind
body and spirit are undergoing renovations, coz Goddess has moved in and is
rebuilding you into a worthy temple of Her Grace.
Vibration, noise, destruction and creation.. jackhammers and roto-rooter.
>But the really terrible part of the whole thing I have
>never tried to describe. It is as if I'm being
>digested, raped. Everything flash of intuition soon
>after it comes is followed by a feeling of being
>killed, and then I can't remember anymore what it
>was. I am pulled up out of my feet. Anything I
>fall in love with I die inside when I see, and all I can
>do is tremble. I'm inside something else, and I
>don't belong to the world around me anymore.
>
Yes, these are familiar symptoms here in this unique cyberspace we call
the K-list. Welcome home.
I will try to explain whatzup, please translate it into your paradigms as
best you can.
The connection between love and death is to help you to realize that love
sticks around, it is real and eternal energy, tho death comes to all things
impermanent. The energy of love makes you tremble, your body is simply not
yet used to this intensity of energy.
There are several parts of the self.. the conscious mind or ego, the
unconscious, and of course the spirit which is a part of the Divine.
The conscious mind thinks it is in charge, and thru the laws of free
will, it is.. but it is a monkey flying the space shuttle.
It really is not the best mind for the job, when it comes to fully
enlightened living.. because it's job is to keep you thinking of yourself
as a limited 3 dimensional being. You're really not.
Whenever Goddess (who of course is really the one in charge) does
something that shows ego that it is really not in charge, ego wants to do
this big death scene.. rightly so, coz Goddess is basically disintegrating
ego bit by bit to make room for bigger things.. Herself. Your Higher Self.
When you are in an intuitive moment, you are not in the same state as
later, when you try to analyze and judge it. When you come down from the
intuitive flight and connect again with Ego, you sink out of the realm of
those memories. You have moved yourself to a different place where they are
no longer accessible. Ego brain is too tiny to comprehend it, and instead
it just gets scorched with a squeal, trying. Program crashed, data erased..
ya know? Filesize too big to process.
But the data is not lost, right..? It is still on the harddrive, but you
need to upgrade the computer to retrieve it. That upgrading is what all the
writhing shaking vibrations are about. Win 95 installing itself over
win3.1. Next up, win.98, then win.infinite.
When you come to realize you are infinite also. Your memory has only the
Ram of the present moment, but your hardrive is plugged into infinity.
Ever notice that when you are angry with your computer it crashes more
often?
Same deal.. you are scared and it is making the un install/reinstall much
more difficult. You are trying to hang onto old *.dll files that are no
longer compatible. Let Goddess delete them.. She will give you an upgrade
that is beyond the capacity of your present software and hardware to
conceive of.
>While I sleep my dreams don't belong to me and I
>wake up and my body doesn't fit me anymore.
See metaphor above..
>
>I can hear it whining, screaming, feel it trying
>to kill me like it's sticking pins in my heart.
>I can step out of myself and see its face in "mine",
>and look at how it's watching everything and taking
>over. Then it sees me and gets angry and I forget.
>
>What is going on?????
Well, I'll tell ya.. Switch perspectives for a moment.
When you step out of yourself into the "witness" state, you are seeing
from the perspective of spirit. You are seeing the face that you are
showing to your "new occupant" Kundalini, in your fear and rejection of the
process of enlightenment that has been started within you by your earlier
spiritual pursuits. Somewhere along the line, you asked for this. You did
not comprehend what you were asking for, no-one can. Comprehending it is
having it.. the experiences that shape you.. ya know?
It is you that is whining and kicking and screaming. It is you that gets
angry and "forgets" about the world and wisdom of being Spirit having a
human experience. The peace of the "witness state".
It is the little ego that used to think it was king, having a tantrum
about waking up one morning and discovering the lease on the kingdom is up
and the real owner is redecorating the bedroom around him. Sometimes the
King tries to put up the siege walls after the fact.. such as you have
been putting Her thru.... as we all do, until we learn better.
The whole point of a monkish education is to teach you to be good at
surrender, so when Goddess moves in it is instinctive and so the ride is
easy. When She shows up you are prepared to sit at Her feet.
Give your being back to Goddess, it has really been Hers all along
anyways.. and let Her move you as She wills. Unconditional love definitely
has your highest good in mind, and limitless wisdom definitely knows what
is good for you, better than that tiny tyrant which thought it was King.
The body movements were a kind of instinctive Zen yoga.. Goddess giving
you a workout. We call them Kriyas.
The pins you are sticking in your own heart, to try to kill the voice of
Goddess from where She speaks to you in the silence. The pain is from your
heart chakra trying to open, against your wall of fear.
(So what do I do about it he sez..)
Go do my grounding meditation, it will rebalance you energy and teach
you to speak directly to the heart voice, and find out what your Spirit has
in mind for you. "Grounding" is getting rid of that floaty feeling, so you
can be here now. And be spirit. Both at once.
http://www.domin8rex.com/serpent/ground.htm
You give it love and acceptance.. you give it forgiveness for the pain
it has caused, you ask forgiveness for mistrusting it's intent. You ask if
It loves you, and wait in the "witness" state to hear It's answer. The
answer will be "yes, unconditionally".
You give love also to your fearful ego, and explain that you will need to
have it around for a longtime yet, and it in the end you won't kill it off,
just send it into luxury retirement. It will be able to hang out and slack
off and have a good time at Spirit's party.
At the bottom of the grounding page is a link to the "Kundalini Signs and
Symptoms" Faq. It will give you a great sense of relief. Print it up to
show your Mom and Doctor. There is an organization called the "Spiritual
Emergence Network". They are also on the net and they can give you a
referral for a local professional who understands K. They help a lot of
folks who think they have gone crazy.
In my sig is the link to the K-list websites, there is more info for you
there. Follow your nose and your curiosity.. Goddess will lead you to
whatever you need to know, just as perfectly as She led you here.
>
>Matt
>
>
>
If you need more info, feel free to write to me at
kundalini-l-ownerATnospamexecpc.com
Love and electric blue K. fire, List Mystress.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Website <http://www.execpc.com/~libra/kund/kundgate.htm>
in europe <http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/>
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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:26:04 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Kari Tyler" <proph1984ATnospamearthlink.net>, <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Awakenings
Message-Id: <199804170840.JAA20588ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> Hello.
> I have not spoken yet on this list, and even tried to unsubscribe
> unsuccessfully, and now am pleased to sort through the immense quantity
> of mail. I have had immense awakenings over the past two months,
> somewhat I attribute following the inner voice I named the "Mother
> Instinct" at age 14. Flashes of insight are inundating my essence with
> great accuracy daily!!!! It is beautiful to be on this journey. The
> heart and third eye chakras, although I do not know the proper Hindu
> name, are opening through exercise of the K. I realize it is not
> necessary to confirm through words that these experiences are real. I
> have reached points lately, in group sessions, where we speak without
> words. Can anyone out there relate to this? I am ecstatic over the
> opening I have had with a re-awakening of the K. When it happened to
> me, I was in a group setting, "talking" with another person sitting
> fifteen feet away, and I fell back to the ground feeling the immensity
> of LOVE, pure LOVE, in waves emanating from and entering my heart. I
> began to cry, in union with the eternal. Please respond and let me know
> of your experience. I must say, when one asks for answers, they will
> arrive. And take heed for they are not always agreeable to the
> emotions, or surface layer attributes of ourselves, but the Inner
> knowing center of us will guide..
>
> Rain(:
Dear Friend welcome to Kundalini,
Love is All. Enjoy the Bliss.
There may come a time when you and others wish to direct and send out your love.
Here are some candidates:
Myself (Ed - Lobster) Selfish and egotistical
My mother (Irma - The Mother) in great need of peace and calm
My Guru (Harish - Petal) in great need of resolving his Heart centred problems
My Sister (Wanda - le Monke) in need of clarity and strength
Kundalites in experiences beyond their understanding - PEACE and WISDOM
PEACE AND WISDOM to you all
BE WELL
Lobster
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:31:05 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Matthew Bastress" <mattbATnospamchrysalis.com>, <kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com>
Subject: Re: help! what's happening to me?
Message-Id: <199804170840.JAA28961ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> I can hear it whining, screaming, feel it trying
> to kill me like it's sticking pins in my heart.
> I can step out of myself and see its face in "mine",
> and look at how it's watching everything and taking
> over. Then it sees me and gets angry and I forget.
>
> What is going on?????
>
> Matt
My Dear Friend,
You are safe here. People understand your bewilderment. People will be sending you explanations and healing. There is nothing to fear - you are fighting something and there is nothing to fight.
LIGHT AND LOVE to you
Be Well
Lobster
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