1998/04/15 21:04
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #296
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 296
Today's Topics: Re: Snakey stuff [ Dan Margolis ]
Fwd: Snakey stuff [ Druout ] I've been thinking... [ Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserv ]
book recommendation (plain text vers [ "Jason S. White" ] Re: book recommendation (plain text [ Mary Ezzell ]
Re: childhood kundalini (was RE: kun [ "Joseph Miller" ] Re: childhood kundalini (was RE: kun [ Harsh Luthar ]
Nadis and Say What? :-) [ Harsh Luthar ] Re: I've been thinking... [ "Rick Puravs" ]
Seriousness is a Disease [ "Sandeep Chatterjee" To: lobATnospamlineone.net, Kundalini Mailing List
Subject: Re: Snakey stuff Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I don't actually believe that genuine teachers have to be hidden. In certain circumstances teachers come forward. Notably his holiness the Dalai Lama has become a very public teacher. While he may not be enlightened(at least in this life), he is a genuine, compassionate teacher, not seeking agrandizement of
any kind. He was forced/impelled forward by the times he was living in.
A genuine public teacher would be a teacher that would prefer to remain hidden yet the circumstances he's involved in are so drastic that he must leap out into the public consciousness. At this point the goal of the teacher isn't enlightening students but effecting general societal/spiritual changes in large groups of people to shift slightly a developing or already developed circumstance. Again these teachers are far different from the public 'gurus' that tend to run cultish organizations that are more spiritual circuses than schools of enlightenment.
So most genuine teachers will remain hidden because they can be far more effective at enlightening the few genuine students they find. A few genuine teachers will be forced to work on a large societal scale but there primary concern is a general trend as opposed to teaching individual students. A few genuine
visionaries(but not teachers) will be thrust into the public spotlight because they have been given gifts of seeing or prophecy and must pursue them. These visionaries again work on a large societal level as opposed to educating individual students. Finally there are the hidden teachers whose role is to enlighten their students.
Dan M.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:53:50 EDT From: Druout
To: lobATnospamlineone.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: Snakey stuff
Message-ID:
In a message dated 98-04-14 05:35:53 EDT, lobATnospamlineone.net writes:
< Krishnamurti was trained by weirdos from the theosophical society. He made quite a good living by saying 'look within do not follow me'. He of course had
many followers. Ridiculous. A person with real wisdom finds it easy to not become a guru - which is what Krishnamurti effectvely was.
>> Dear Lobster,
I think Dan has come up with a very nice distinction that I think places
Krishnamurti in the "public teacher to effect societal changes" area. He would, of course, be horrified at being called a guru. I suspect he helped a
great many people during his lifetime with very real wisdom. And I think he would have adored to escape from his public life at a certain point. I don't
think he would claim he was perfect. He was, afterall thrust into his position from early childhood--and it took courage to break with the
theophosisits. He's interesting to me at this stage in my life because of his K experiences. And this is a K-list after all! Not a God list. (My
agnosticism speaking!) I'm not a follower of Krishnamurti. I used to hear him speak. He had an incredible voice!
Love Hillary
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:05:01 EDT From: Druout
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Fwd: Snakey stuff
Message-ID: Content-type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="part0_892663502_boundary"
From: Druout Return-path:
To: lobATnospamlineone.net Subject: Re: Snakey stuff
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:03:39 EDT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
In a message dated 98-04-14 05:35:53 EDT, you write:
< God does not have subjective qualities such as bliss or ecstasy. Mystics quite often experience ecstatic states. What I would suggest is that they must
transcend them - they are just a stage. Oh yes and all is God of course - but not in this context. >>
If one is not looking for God, perhaps one can accept the *level* of ecstasy
as just fine, thank you :)))). I will grant you a hormonal --chemical--etc. answer. But I would argue, perhaps that that is what God is, too.--just at
another level.
Love, Hillary Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:16:59 -0400
From: Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserve.com To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: I've been thinking... Message-ID:
Content-Disposition: inline
1 Nothing exists except your mind 2 It isn't "your" mind
3 It's bigger than you think it is
Is this a fair summation of spiritual reality?
Tom Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:24:51 +0200
From: "Jason S. White" To: "Kundalini"
Subject: book recommendation (plain text version) Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01BD68AC.8AED19E0"
Apologies to those without HTML readers.
Trying again...
-----Original Message-----From: Jason S. White <zymphtATnospambluewin.ch>To:
Kundalini <Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>Date: Wednesday, 15 April, 1998 9:02 AMSubject: book
recommendation I want to recommend an excellent book
that I've recently read. It deals with exploring the chakra energies by imagining each as an animal, developing a relationship with those animals and
developing relationships of the animals with each other. The result is integration, wholeness and harmony of the different aspects of your being and a
deeper self respect and trust. What's most fantastic is that the animal imagery will show you things that are blocking your growth that are simply not
available to your conscious mind. The key (as always) is to allow the conscious mind not to interfere with the imagery. Anyway, I found it to be
quite a good technique.
The Personal Totem Pole by Eligio Stephen
Gallegos ISBN 0-944164-08-0
Enjoy
Jason.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:49:58 -0700 From: Dan Margolis
To: Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserve.com CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: I've been thinking... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserve.com wrote:
> 1 Nothing exists except your mind
> 2 It isn't "your" mind > 3 It's bigger than you think it is
> > Is this a fair summation of spiritual reality?
Here is a Zen Mondo that covers your question:
One day the emperor Goyozei asked Gudo, "In Zen, this very
mind is considered buddha, is it not?" "If I say yes you will think that you understand
something which in fact you don't. And if I say no, I will be contradicting a fact that many do understand."
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:44:10 -0700 From: Mary Ezzell
To: "Kundalini" Subject: Re: book recommendation (plain text version)
Message-Id:
This sounds like a technique from yoga too. Visualize a different deity in
each chakra. Certainly it's what happens to me. The 'handle' I have on each chakra is the deity that seems to be connected to it ... my relationship to
that deity.
For a long time I've been trying to connect 2nd chak (mother kali) with 5th etc. Find putting the Wiccan/STrega deities in 4th and 5th helps. They can
get along with Kali when no one else can. :-)))))))))
Think it has a lot to do with teh hara line too. Does anyone else read Barbara Brennan?
Mary
-----------
At 08:24 PM 4/15/98 +0200, Jason S. White wrote:
>>>> Apologies to those without HTML readers. Trying again... -----Original
Message----- From: Jason S. White
To: Kundalini Date: Wednesday, 15 April, 1998 9:02 AM
Subject: book recommendation
I want to recommend an excellent book that I've recently read. It deals with exploring the chakra energies by imagining each as an animal,
developing a relationship with those animals and developing relationships of the animals with each other. The result is integration, wholeness and
harmony of the different aspects of your being and a deeper self respect and trust. What's most fantastic is that the animal imagery will show you
things that are blocking your growth that are simply not available to your conscious mind. The key (as always) is to allow the conscious mind not to
interfere with the imagery. Anyway, I found it to be quite a good technique. The Personal Totem Pole by Eligio Stephen Gallegos ISBN
0-944164-08-0 Enjoy Jason. Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:47:35 -0700
From: Mary Ezzell To: "Kundalini"
Subject: Re: book recommendation (plain text version) Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
PS.
I bet the Planetary Deities would fit there, too. :-)
Mary
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:49:22 PDT From: "Joseph Miller"
To: anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu,
margolisATnospamtransbay.net Subject: Re: childhood kundalini (was RE: kundalini questions)
Message-ID:
Anandajyoti wrote:
> >In the general sense, the Sushumna Nadi itself is called the Brama
nadi, >because the Brahma Nadi is within the Sushumna.
> >> Anandajyoti
>
Anandajyoti,
It may be a minor point but everything I've been taught and read has made a real effort to distinguish between the two. Susumna is much
easier to catch ("on average") than Brahma and Brahma will almost always lead to a more rapid enlightenment.
A very US of such a miss labeling analogy would be if one called all
Chevolets by the name "Corvette" because Corvettes are contained in the set Chevolets. The person with a Brahma nadi rising is among the
luckiest of beings and while a Susumna rising is certainly very lucky, it is much more common.
Namaste,
Joe
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:50:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Angela Mary Broad
To: Carolyn C Maloney Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re:unsubscribe Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
This is a beautifull, wonderfull list and I love the learning that has been happening when I get time to read your posts. I may rejoin again
when I have more time. Pleas unsubscribe me from the list. Thanx guys :), in love and light
Angie
-your friendly neighboorhood hang glider pilot :0 :) :) :) :) !!!!!!!! Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:20:36 -0700
From: Kurt Keutzer To: "'anandajyoti'" ,
Joseph Miller
Cc: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" Subject: sushumna
Message-ID:
KK: Maybe we should just try to exchange references - then we can all reconvene
and share our ideas. According to classical literature such as the SadCakra Nirupana and recent writers such as Swami Vishnu Tirth the Vajra and Chitra
Nadis are 1) contained within the sushumna 2) go the full length of the sushumna. I think I can get some additional pointers if you like.
So maybe you two can give me some pointers to the teachers/literature that
are forming your impressions - I'd enjoy getting my horizon's expanded.
Also, in the literature I'm reading kundalini could not possibly go up one of these nadis and not another - at least as I'm reading it. I'm less clear
on this. Alternatively this might explain raising kundalini without piercing the cakras - I don't know. In short I have never tried to model
differences of experience based on these three nadis.
KUrt
Joseph Miller wrote:
> >K takes Susumna or other appropriate route, in me it took Vajra nadi. > >Vajra can lead to several different things, among them a strong
> >appetites (for food and drink among other things), a strong sex drive, > >and psychic powers.
> Anandajyoti> The Vjra nadi is within the Sushumna and has Rajasic > Qualities which are mentioned by Joseph as strong appetites for, food,
> drinks, sex drive, and psychic powers. In addtion to these, it also makes > one strongly egocentric, with a strong propensity power to dominate. Most
> people who are in business and a have very outstanding careers in trade > and commerce, have their Vajra Nadi very active. This nadi stops at the
> Manipura level. When one needs to connect with the heart center, then one > has to descend from the course of Vajra Nadi to the MulaDhara, and take
> the Kundalini up again through the Chitra Nadi whose qualities are > Sattvic. The Brahma Nadi, is a subtler nadi , attached to the Chitra
Nadi. > It is through the Brahma Nadi that the Kundalini can rise to the
> Sahasrara. The lower extremity of the Chitra Nadi is called as the Door of
> Brahma or Brahma-Dwara.
In the general sense, the Sushumna Nadi itself is called the Brama nadi, because the Brahma Nadi is within the Sushumna.
> Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
>
>
> > >KK: In my understanding sushumna consists of three parts: vajra,
> chittra > >and viraja. So I'm not sure the distinction your making between vajra
> nadi > >and sushumna.
> > Susumna contains within it chittra and bhrama nadis and, I believe, one
> or two others. Sorry I'm not near my references and frankly I am a bit > of a pragmatist, if it concerns me I pay attention and remember
> otherwise I tend to forget. >
> Vajra is not a part of Susumna. They both go through the major chakras, > from root through Ajna but Vajra is not inside Susumna (nor vice versa).
> Actually Vajra is longer than Susumna and has a second path from root > toward 2nd chakra and extends past Ajna into the brain centers (hence
> it's a good path to get psychic powers). >
> >
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:20:05 -0400 From: "Sharon Webb"
To: Subject: Say What? :-)
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Joseph,
Could you put these various systems in plain English for those of us---like
me---who do not have a grasp of Hindu terminology? And could you, further, give us a breakdown of the manifestations of each of the various pathways,
with a list of what happens with each, so that we might be able to determine which, if any, our own k is following?
Thank you.
Sharon
shawebbATnospamyhc.edu A new fractal gallery and screensaver was posted to this site, 4/3/98:
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Award Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 15:28:18 -0400
From: Harsh Luthar To: Joseph Miller
CC: anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu, margolisATnospamtransbay.net
Subject: Re: childhood kundalini (was RE: kundalini questions) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Joseph Miller wrote:
> Anandajyoti,
> > It may be a minor point but everything I've been taught and read has
> made a real effort to distinguish between the two. Susumna is much > easier to catch ("on average") than Brahma and Brahma will almost always
> lead to a more rapid enlightenment. >
> A very US of such a miss labeling analogy would be if one called all > Chevolets by the name "Corvette" because Corvettes are contained in the
> set Chevolets. The person with a Brahma nadi rising is among the > luckiest of beings and while a Susumna rising is certainly very lucky,
> it is much more common. >
> Namaste, >
> Joe
Harsha: Joe, where are you getting your information?
> >
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:06:39 -0400 From: Harsh Luthar
To: Sharon Webb CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Nadis and Say What? :-) Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sharon Webb wrote:
> Joseph,
> > Could you put these various systems in plain English for those of us---like
> me---who do not have a grasp of Hindu terminology? And could you, further, > give us a breakdown of the manifestations of each of the various pathways,
> with a list of what happens with each, so that we might be able to determine > which, if any, our own k is following?
> > Thank you.
> > Sharon
Harsha: Sharon, as a practical matter, although there are broad similarities,
the Kundalini manifestations will be different in people even through the same pathway. The Shakti being the full force of Consciousness (including the
Unconscious Mind), acts upon and through an individual's unique karmic makeup to produce various types of Superconscious and other experiences. Moreover, some
important pathways do not properly develop until the Shakti starts to function at or above the heart center. Here, I am referring to the psychic heart center
of Kundalini Yoga and not the Spiritual Heart that Ramana Maharshi spoke of. The Nadi that the Shakti travels through and the way it travels is a function of the
power available for manifestation ( through regulation of sensual conduct and sleep), mental purity and calm of the aspirant (absence of which increases
resistance to the Shakti). Types of spiritual practices engaged in also plays a role in determining the manifestation of the Shakti and activation of particular
Nadis. Keep in mind Sharon, that in different traditions, the same Nadis may have different names. Both Swami Sivananda and Swami Narayananda have discussed
various Nadis in their books on Kundalini Yoga. General knowledge of the subject matter is helpful, but practical experience is ultimately the best guide in such
areas. Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 17:25:36 -0400
From: "Rick Puravs" To: ,
Subject: Re: I've been thinking... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message----- From: Tom_I_BradleyATnospamEURO.CCMAIL.compuserve.com Subject: I've been thinking...
>1 Nothing exists except your mind >2 It isn't "your" mind
>3 It's bigger than you think it is >
>Is this a fair summation of spiritual reality? >
>Tom
No
Rick Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:06:19 -0500
From: "Brent Blalock" To:
Cc: "Kundalini - L" Subject: Re: Snakey stuff
Message-Id:
I just noticed a few things.
I try not to sound too antagonistic. And I don't just dismiss what you say, thinking it too "different" to be right, for that is the essence of
foolishness. Nonetheless, I disagreed with a fair amount of what you said, and so... the assault begins:
You sound very sure of yourself. I wonder how you could possibly know so
much that you can say with confidence that Jesus and the Buddha were immature.
From: Ed Jason
Subject: Re: Snakey stuff
> [stuff about popularity not equaling legitimacy]
I'll agree with that.
> When a prophetic vision comes forth it may well be rejected. To be > honest I would consider all these people as lacking in wisdom. They tried
to > explain wisdom - impossible.
Sometimes, one has to go thru an experience where a piece of wisdom is
reinforced to really be able to apply it to one's life. For example, one won't really know why it's good to get enough sleep until one stays up too
late.
But you're saying that wisdom can't be transmitted verbally whatsoever, and that Buddha, Jesus, etc. were fools for trying. That is a strong
statement. Surely you know something that justifies such a strong statement.
> I also think they Jesus, Mohammed etc were quite raw and immature
> - incomplete in their training. Jesus it is quite clear was still undergoing a
> process of change and unfoldment.
And why do you think that Jesus and Mohammed were "raw and immature"? That suggests that you know the "real" path to enlightenment (or wherever
"training" takes you to) and that you are further than they are. What is that path, and how do you know that you are further than they are?
> However there are genuine teachers. Are there genuine students?
How does this statement coincide with your belief that wisdom can't be
explained? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:29:44 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM To: hlutharATnospambryant.edu, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Kundalini Yoga and Nadis
Message-ID:
Harsha: For those inclined to know more about the Kundalini terminology, Swami Sivananda gives one perspective on Nadis in the book Kundalini Yoga (pages
36-41). Sushumna, Vajra and Chitra Nadis are described. I have seen other types of descriptions which have a different emphasis. Swami Naryananada has
described some important frontal Nadis (Sarswati, Lakshmi and Medha) which form the counter parts of Ida, Pingla and Sushumna. Some books say there are
72,000 Nadis in the body and some say there are 350,000. The variety of experiences possible in Kundalini Yoga is unlimited. People simply experience
different aspects of the Shakti and hence the profound debates, etc. It boils down to this. When strength of attachment to thought forms declines and one
maintains a peaceful and a calm state of Self-awareness, the Shakti will tend to enter the middle Channel (Brahma Nadi). This is why the practice of divine
detachment and surrender to the divine will is considered helpful in all Yogas. Swami Sivananda has noted that in a general sense and as a practical
matter Sushumna Nadi itself is called Brahma Nadi.
Harsha Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:06:55 +0530
From: "Sandeep Chatterjee" To:
Subject: Seriousness is a Disease Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi everybody,
THE BEARER IS A LIFETIME MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING IN: THE SOCIETY OF CHILDLIKE GROWNUPS AND IS HEREBY ENTITLED TO:
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Fall down and get up again, Talk with animals, Look at the sky, Trust the Universe, STAY UP LATE,
Climb trees, Take naps, Do nothing, Daydream, Play with toys, Play under the covers, Have pillow fights,
Learn new stuff, Get excited about EVERYTHING, Be a clown, Listen to music, Find out how things work,
Make up new rules, Tell stories, Save the World, Make friends,
and do anything that brings more: Happiness, Celebration, Relaxation, Communication, Health, Love, Joy,
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