1998/04/12 15:05
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #291
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 291
Today's Topics:
Latif the Thief [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Re: Subject-Object Dualism [ anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities. ]
Re: What enlightenment isn't... [ Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: fav bks [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
Adrian [ Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca> ]
RE: kundalini questions [ "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail. ]
Re: Sufi/deserving "truth" [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: Sufi/deserving "truth" [ David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net> ]
Thoughts on going newsgroup, Re: kun [ "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail. ]
Nityananda-fav bks [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Re: All Shall Be Well [ "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com> ]
Re: kundalini questions [ Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com> ]
Nothing to do with anything [ "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net> ]
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 06:42:42 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: "Kundalini list" <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Latif the Thief
Message-Id: <199804120957.KAA28505ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
A sufi story in the book 'Thinkers of the East" by Idries Shah describes
this:
One day Latif the Thief ambushed the commander of the Royal Guard,
captured him and took him to a cave.
'I am going to say something that, no matter how much you try, you
will be unable to forget,' he told the infuriated officer.
Latif made his prisoner take off all his clothes. Then he tied him,
facing backwards, on a donkey.
'You may be able to make a fool of me,' screamed the soldier, 'but
you'll never make me think of something if I want to keep it out of my
mind.'
'You have not yet heard the phrase which I want you to remember,'
said Latif. 'I am turning you loose now, for the donkey to take you back
to town. And the phrase is:
'"I'll catch and kill Latif the Thief, if it takes me the rest of my
life!"'
fowarded by . . . I forget . . .
probably Lobster
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:41:29 -0700
From: anandajyoti <anandajyotiATnospamgeocities.com>
To: Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepcATnospambom3.vsnl.net.in>
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Subject-Object Dualism
Message-ID: <35323229.52BB12B3ATnospamgeocities.com>
Very Well described, and its practical, and beneficial too.
Anandajyoti
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
Sandeep Chatterjee wrote:
> Hi everybody
>
> Trust you all had a good weekend Easter or otherwise.
>
> For some time in the past I had been focusing on the issue of Subject-Object
> Dualism. Every meditation worth it's salt is supposed to dissolve this
> dualism.
>
> I could see that all my disharmony and difficulty comes from not knowing
> what to do with this subject-object relationship.
>
> Ordinarily the world is divided into subjects and objects. I look at you, I
> go to work, I sit on a chair. In all these activities I think of myself as
> the subject relating to an object, you, my work, the chair etc.
>
> Not really dissolving the dualism(most of the time we only think we have
> done so) I
> see the objects as the source of my problems. You are my problem, my work
> is my problem, this chair is a problem.
>
> When I see myself as a problem I have converted myself into an object.
>
> So I run from objects which I perceive as problems and seek those objects
> which I perceive as non problems (in this New Age objects like seeking,
> searching for truth, peace, serenity, Enlightenment, Ultimate, service to
> other, charity, etc etc)
> >From this point of view Life consists of me and things that please me, or
> don't please me.
>
> Much of the so called meditative techniques (Like Positive Thinking and
> like) focuses on emptying the object of the "conditioning" that we have
> attached to it. Conditioning like --"this" gives me joy, "that" doesn't.
> I then congratulate myself because such a state is blissful because the
> empty object is no longer troublesome to us.
>
> But the dualism still remains because somebody, some inner voice is still
> saying "This is It". A hidden subject remains observing a blank object.
> When we return to daily life, the blissful state dissipates and we are back
> into the subject-object dualism.
>
> True meditation it seems to me does not get rid of the object, but sees the
> object for what it is.
> It is about "being" in which there is no subject or object and hence no
> separation. There is still me and there's still you but when I realize that
> I am just my experience of you, there is no separation between you and me.
>
> I looked at the phenomenon of anger because if you are really honest with
> yourself you will agree this is a fairly dominant emotion in our lives.
>
> I was once told that true meditation would not be to "handle" anger but to
> become the anger itself, to experience it fully without separation or
> rejection. This was difficult for me to "get It" in the beginning but today
> I use anger as a tool if appropriate to the situation but I am rarely
> angry.
> The other issue of true meditation is that if it is all about achieving
> oneness with all things and let's forget the esoteric subjects like God,
> Ultimate etc etc and let's look at just a mundane activity like washing my
> car, if I can be just totally washing the car there is a paradox here.
> The paradox is that in "trying" to be one with the washing, with god, with
> Truth etc, we still create the dualism, the "trier" and the object of
> "trying".
> In trying to become IT we are separate from IT.
> The very effort defeats itself.(I then got what the Masters specially the
> Zen Masters said about just to relax in oneself)
>
> However there is something that I can do.
>
> And that is to be aware of our thoughts separating me from the activity. I
> can be aware that I am not fully doing what I am doing (eg eating dinner
> and mentally planning etc) Instead of saying or thinking that I'm going to
> be one with the washing of the car which is dualistic I can notice what I
> am not doing (ie not really washing the car but getting steadily mad that
> the car cleaner did not come and how out of shape am I )
>
> To me now meditation is not about having profound experiences, or great
> realizations, not about getting to the 7th Light or Kundalini rising or
> becoming ONE.
> For me meditation is simply maintaining awareness- of my activities and my
> thoughts that separate me from the activity.
>
> I read an Tibetan translation which goes something like this
>
> "Awareness is our true self; It's what we are. So we don't have to try to
> develop awareness: we simply need to notice how we block awareness with our
> thoughts, our fantasies, our opinions, our judgments. We're either in
> awareness, which is our natural state or we are doing something else. The
> mark of a mature mediator is that most of the time they don't do something
> else. They are just here and now, living their life.
>
> Nothing special.
>
> Ultimate freedom is when there is no object and no subject. What is left is
> then only Awareness which itself is nothing and yet the whole universe
> exists through it."
>
> What to do when I gets lost in thoughts?
> Nothing, I just notice that I am lost and I am back in awareness. For
> example thinking I am meditating is getting lost into the thought of
> meditation. To me that's not meditation.
> Noticing this thought, rather than looking for Lights, or Bells or Angels
> etc is for me the real meditation.
>
> >From this premise of awareness as real meditation I stumbled onto the fact
> that what it means is that if and when I am totally the activity I am
> engaged in, I as I, am no more at least for this brief period.
>
> For God or whatever that brief period is eternity.
>
> In awareness
>
> Sandeep
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:52:15 EDT
From: Druout <DruoutATnospamaol.com>
To: lobATnospamlineone.net, shawebbATnospamyhc.edu, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: What enlightenment isn't...
Message-ID: <c26838bf.3530ff52ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 98-04-11 01:32:36 EDT, lobATnospamlineone.net writes:
<< Moments of bliss and ecstasy are experienced through sex, drugs, hormonal
changes and quite spontaneously. So feeling blissed out is no indication of
anything. Nice though :-) >>
Dear Lobster,
I wonder if we should discount bliss so easily. In my experience bliss is not
simply a pleasant physical experience. With it, often, comes feelings of
transcendence. Often a strong "presence" will make itself felt. It is an
experience that is impossible to accurately describe. Certainly bliss,
whether or not experienced "unnaturally" with drugs, might be considered a
signpost of some sort.
I don't know what this Presence is, but I suspect most, if not all on the list
have had some experience with it. How do you all account for it??
"On waking this morning, there was that strange immobility of the body and of
the brain; with it came a movement of entering into unfathomable depths of
intensity and of great bliss and there was that otherness."
Krishnamurti's Notebook
Love, Hillary
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 15:01:27 -0700
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: fav bks
Message-ID: <353139B7.7335ATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
> >I read "Play of Consciousness" about 6 months ago and it gave me a
> >major, major k-blast. Wish I'd known about him when he was still
> >alive. Holly
> >
>
> Hey, a new question to play with ... What are some other favorite K-books
> people on the list have read?
> --Liz
>
Well, I'm not an expert, but there's a book called Nitya Sutras: The
Revelations of Nityananda From The Chidakash Gita. Editors: M.U.
Hatengdi and Swami Chetananda. 1985. Rudra Press. Cambridge, Mass.
Nityananda was Muktananda's Guru. If Holly found Play of Consciousness
stimulating, this book may be a more concentrated form of that.
Sometimes I look at the pictures and read a few verses (one verse in
particular I find very powerful) and I can just feel myself vibrating. I
know of no other book that does that for me. Then, with proper breathing
and placement of attention, I can bring descent of kundalini. For me
it's very shakti-rich, I think might be the term.
Even my wife, who has absolutely no interest whatsoever in "spiritual
things" was fascinated by the cover of the book (a picture of
Nityananda.) She's never been drawn to any of the many books I have.
I invited my wife to read the one verse I find so powerful. So she took
the book to bed and read and looked at the pictures for an hour or so.
She was awakened in the middle of the night by what she described as a
gunshot and a bolt of blue shooting out of the thermostat. Of course I
heard nothing. Inspection showed the thermostat to be fine. I don't
know. You explain it. She wouldn't touch the book after that, but says
she was definitely stimulated by it.
Master Da, a disciple of Muktananda, says Nityananda's burial site is
one of the most alive places he has ever been to. It is flooded with
Shakti, he says.
I don't know if this book qualifies for the main list. But maybe it
would interest someone. Unfortunately the book is out of print, but I
know Amazon has at least one other book about Nityananda that may be
similar.
I'll put an excerpt on my web page in the near future and will announce
when I do so.
________
Nondualism
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:56:20 -0700
From: Jerry Katz <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
To: lobATnospamlineone.net
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Adrian
Message-ID: <35313884.5AEATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Ed Jason wrote:
>
> > > The truth is people find 'the Truth' they deserve.
Jerry wrote:
> > On a lighter note, I think the idea that people get the truth they
> > deserve has sorry political implications. I don't think it's a nice
> > thought to carry around. And what surefire way do we have of knowing
> > what anyone's truth is?
Ed wrote:
> This is perhaps an illustration. It had not occured to me that any compassionate person could choose to understand this as meaning something like:
> People get what they deserve eg. People are starving because that is their fault.
> People starve or injustice occurs. Act of god? Their choice to learn through suffering?
> Oh well that's OK then - let them get on with it?
> That is 'a truth' no one deserves
> So perhaps I will say again - The truth is people find 'the Truth' they deserve . . .
> So . . . you gonna share that easter egg or not . . . :-)
>
> Happy Easter
> Lobster
Jerry writes (holding half an egg):
Ok, but while we are sharing let us sit back and watch our words do
another round in the ring. Maybe they will tire themselves out at last.
There's the bell...! Your words are the ones in the italic trunks.
The implication of the statement is the cold message that people get
what they deserve. My personal bent is that I don't care for the word
'deserve'. Some people who read that statement may link it to karma, and
from karma it is a small step to the dangerous New Age thinking of Alice
Bailey. Alice Bailey would have you think she and her Masters and
followers are extraordinarily compassionate. Someone may hop onto this
list and latch onto that statement for the wrong reason.
The other limitation of the word 'deserve' -- maybe in most contexts --
is that it draws a movement of attention which I would describe as
narrowing or shrinking or contracting or tightening, like a fist.
If I am fixed in Reality or True Being, I would not be able to use the
word 'deserve' -- again, perhaps not in any context. I would simply say,
The truth is people find The Truth. But, let others finish the
statement. Here are some options:
The truth is people find the Truth ...
they deserve
they need
they want
they understand
they can handle
I say, The truth is people find the Truth. I'm not judging where they
are now or saying they are anywhere at all or that there is any 'they'
at all. You are saying all those things, and this might serve to keep
attention in a place that isn't the best.
Try this test, watching your attention. Say to yourself, "The truth is
people find 'the Truth' they deserve." Then say, "The truth is people
find the Truth." Where do you prefer your attention to be? Why? Which is
more compassionate? Which is the Guru more likely to utter? Which is
spoken from the disposition of extraordinary compassion?
And one final thing ... Adriannnnnnnn! .)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:51:54 PDT
From: "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu
Cc: margolisATnospamtransbay.net
Subject: RE: kundalini questions
Message-ID: <19980412185155.23217.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Dan wrote:
><snip> What practice or experience caused your kundalini
>to awaken?
>------
>
>Dan,
>
>Mine was awake at birth. <snip>
>
>Namaste,
>
>Joe
>
>Kurt asks:
>
>I wonder if you could expand on your comment ``awake at birth''. Can
you tell us more about what you were (and are) experiencing?
>
Kurt,
I didn't know what it was that was special about me until a psychic good
friend told me he could see K up at 3rd chakra and then a Kundalini
Master explained it to me (I'm usually not one to rely on one source,
that helps explain my history on this list of relying on the ancients
and ancient texts rather than more recent info). How any of the people
who haven't had this kind of confirmation can be sure they have an
awakening is what I find curious.
Please, no one should take that last sentence as a belittlement or a
slight, I just don't understand it. I accept what they say about
themselves, it just seems odd to me to be so sure without confirmation.
Being awake at birth is not unheard of, my original post mentioned a
meeting with 5 others like me, all who live within a 30 mile radius.
Great saints often have this, though they are usually lucky enough that
K takes Susumna or other appropriate route, in me it took Vajra nadi.
Vajra can lead to several different things, among them a strong
appetites (for food and drink among other things), a strong sex drive,
and psychic powers. So I was a fat horny kid who knew he wasn't going to
"get any" :) (Sorry I am in a fun mood, though it is true.)
As a young child I would "dream the future" (my term for it). This was
usually sleep dreams, once or twice day-dreams, where I would see the
future. It was always something where I was going to be and might
involve people I knew or strangers, locations I knew or strange places,
the common thing was sometime later, a day, week, month, or year or
more, I would realize I was in the exact place I'd dreamed about, doing
the same thing, with the same people. You'd think I'd have changed some
of the things I dreamed of doing that were "less than totally
productive" but I viewed it as set and just read my script. Looking back
there were some lost opportunities for improvement. With a very few rare
exceptions those dreams ended with puberty.
I could do other things, read cards by putting my hands on the back when
they were lying face down, and things like that. Whether I can do that
now, I don't know, I haven't tried in years. There were other symptoms,
last month I posted about my experience with lights, but all would fall
into the basket usually labeled "Psychic" and this post is long enough
already.
As to what I am experiencing now... It isn't related to the topic of
when I was awakened or the experience in awakening. It is related to my
finding someone to tell me how to "fix" the K (get it into the correct
nadi/channel) etc., to my efforts in following that instruction and
developing K, and to great good fortune (much or most of which is based
on what I did in a past life).
To those of you who are Christians: Happy Easter!
Namaste,
Joe
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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:59:34 PDT
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com
Cc: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Sufi/deserving "truth"
Message-ID: <19980412185935.21589.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>In a message dated 4/10/1998 1:17:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca writes:
>
><< Ed Jason wrote:
> > I have met
> > people who thought they were physical immortals and 'realised' and
> > 'enlightened' beings. All these people claim they are interested in
'the
> > Truth'. The truth is people find 'the Truth' they deserve.
>
> Jerry writes:
>
> Read Ed's last sentence very carefully, folks. >>
>
>Harsha: Both brother Jerry and brother Ed make perfect sense to me.
First, it
>is plausible as Ed suggests that people find the truth they deserve
(Although
>I really and truly feel that everyone deserves only the very very
best).
Dear all youse guys,
Will you never let up with these extremely thought-provoking
comments??? (grin) You are causing me to waste so much time...
This started over Osho (?) and the assorted other "wierd paths"
Ed mentions. right?? This word deserve is the real problem here, not
"truth". "Deserves" connotes someone either someone earning ot being
given *something*..whether nice or not so nice, as in punishment.
And finding already implies seeking something first, right??
Well, for example, suppose I am standing at some crossroads..(both
metaphorically seeking truth and/or trying to decide which road to take)
Now if you happen to be there and I ask your advice (assuming you happen
to know :):)...1. I may listen, but fail to understand or believe your
directions 2. I just think I want to go to "truth", but am actually
seeking some already mistaken other destination 3.maybe I just have a
case of the "bound-to's & can't help its" and will go on the way I want,
no matter what you say. 4. I blindly go the way you say, simply because
I know I am lost and you say you are not.
Well, how can anyone know the way to truth unless they have already
been there to recognize the place?? There is just ignorance and it has
no connection whatsoever with "deserving or not deserving to arrive
there.
To shorten this tale of woe and ignorance, I believe the Oz analogy
holds up well, as an answer. By journeying down the yellow brick road
with our mistaken ideas and having adventures, we eventually arrive at
Oz. Once we get there, we discover that the Scarecrow really did have a
brain all along, and the TinMan also had a heart..and the Lion had
courage..or was it the adventure of the journey itself which grew them??
Is there really more than one yellow brick road??? Is there someplace
other than OZ to arrive at??
Love,
"Dorothy"
______________________
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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:15:44 -0400
From: David Bozzi <david.bozziATnospamsnet.net>
To: Kundalini <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Re: Sufi/deserving "truth"
Message-ID: <353120F0.AFCF933DATnospammail.snet.net>
Gloria Lee wrote:
> Will you never let up with these extremely thought-provoking
> comments??? (grin) You are causing me to waste so much time...
As long as you're not eating consider it a type of diet.
> This word deserve is the real problem here, not
> "truth". "Deserves" connotes someone either someone earning ot being
> given *something*..whether nice or not so nice, as in punishment.
If you play in the road expect to get hit.
> And finding already implies seeking something first, right??
Let's see what's in my pocket. Oh, a piece of lint.
> Well, for example, suppose I am standing at some crossroads..(both
> metaphorically seeking truth and/or trying to decide which road to take)
> Now if you happen to be there and I ask your advice (assuming you happen
> to know :):)...
What about asking Glo Lee's Higher Self.(does she have One?)
Inquiring minds wanna Know...
> Well, how can anyone know the way to truth unless they have already
> been there to recognize the place??
In the light of Truth there is no doubt. (I think)
> There is just ignorance and it has
> no connection whatsoever with "deserving or not deserving to arrive
> there.
We don't go to Truth, We realize it.(or ignore it)
> To shorten this tale of woe and ignorance, I believe the Oz analogy
> holds up well, as an answer.
No analogy is the Answer.
> Is there really more than one yellow brick road???
I see one road crew worker digging a whole and six guys watching.
> Is there someplace other than OZ to arrive at??
The wizard was a fake.
He played the role of ego.
Don't you remember?
There's no place like Home.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:43:37 PDT
From: "Joseph Miller" <joemillerATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu
Cc: serpentATnospamdomin8rex.com, janbarenATnospaminfase.es, happyhunaATnospamyahoo.com
Subject: Thoughts on going newsgroup, Re: kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #283
Message-ID: <19980412204338.21021.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Kurt wrote:
<snip>, not being rude, there was a lot of good stuff, but I only wanted
to address one point.
>
>Usenet newsgroups are a much better medium for this kind of thing.
<snip>
>
>So I would suggest: 1) creating an alt.meditation.kundalini usenet
>newsgroup and 2) focusing kundalini-l on a supportive exchange of
>experiences and informational exchange on teachers and practices. I
>think it would be great to keep the ``chat'' traffic down a bit as
>well.
>
Kurt,
I've got to disagree with you there pal. I've just about given up on
newsgroups altogether. I used to spend hours in Usenet newsgroups but
finally found it to be very unpleasant and unenlightening. Any jerk with
a PC and a modem can get in and disrupt things, just for the pure hell
of it. Most of the newsgroups I followed developed into sites for flame
wars between a few who made it a lot of work for the many to get any
benefit. I've been on several lists and, with one exception, I found
them to be much much nicer.
We've had some problems like that here, many, including myself have
gotten hotter under the collar than retrospect suggests was valid, but
it is so minor compared to what I've seen in newsgroups (including
alt.yoga) it should not even be compared. The culture of any list is
different than that of a newsgroup. We are more of a community (as a
last resort, we have to be or we'll find our name deleted from the
subscription list). Newsgroups have lots of drop-ins, lots of flames,
and tons of spam (or is that herds of spam?) that make up for the ease
of use in following threads.
That's probably more than my $.02 worth.
Namaste,
Joe
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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:45:23 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca, melintonATnospamalison.sbc.edu
Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Nityananda-fav bks
Message-ID: <a135a4e0.353127e4ATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 4/12/1998 11:04:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca writes:
<< Well, I'm not an expert, but there's a book called Nitya Sutras: The
Revelations of Nityananda From The Chidakash Gita. Editors: M.U.
Hatengdi and Swami Chetananda. 1985. Rudra Press. Cambridge, Mass.
Nityananda was Muktananda's Guru. If Holly found Play of Consciousness
stimulating, this book may be a more concentrated form of that. >>
Harsha: Swami Nityananda or Bhagvan Nityananda as he is often called was (is)
something quite extraordinary and is revered in the Shakti tradition. I do not
recall ever reading the book you mention but perhaps will in the future if I
can get it. By the way, Frans now has my three poems to the Goddess and is
trying to find the time to read them. Hopefully they will be up in the next
few weeks (depending on Frans schedule). Hey no pressure Frans! :--). I was
just thinking of you.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:47:24 PDT
From: "Gloria Lee" <samyanaATnospamhotmail.com>
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, annfisherATnospamstic.net
Subject: Re: All Shall Be Well
Message-ID: <19980412204724.23341.qmailATnospamhotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:24:36 -0500
>To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
>From: Ann Morrison Fisher <annfisherATnospamstic.net>
>Subject: All Shall Be Well
>
>- From "Four Quartets" by T.S. Eliot
>
>----------------
>snip
> We shall not cease from exploration
>And the end of all our exploring
>Will be to arrive where we started
>And know the place for the first time.
<SNIP
Thank you, Ann, for this most beautiful thought.
But....is this not like OZ??? Maybe we know "ourselves" too,
for the first time, when we arrive where we started?
Oh, BTW, in view of all the wonderful poetry showing
up here, recently..do you know its National Poetry Month?
Funny how the list just does this, huh?? :):):)
Love, Glo
PS..I promise to have a real k-topic question ..any day now..
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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 16:53:15 EDT
From: Harsha1MTM <Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com>
To: joemillerATnospamhotmail.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com,
keutzerATnospameecs.berkeley.edu
Cc: margolisATnospamtransbay.net
Subject: Re: kundalini questions
Message-ID: <8e297a1b.353129bdATnospamaol.com>
In a message dated 4/12/1998 11:52:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
joemillerATnospamhotmail.com writes:
<< How any of the people
who haven't had this kind of confirmation can be sure they have an
awakening is what I find curious. >>
Harsha: Hi Joe. Awakening of the Kundalini Shakti in meditation leads to an
immediate loss of body consciousness (but not consciousness). It is quite
dramatic. There is no mistaking it.
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:13:20 -0700
From: "Ed Jason" <lobATnospamlineone.net>
To: <umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca>
Cc: <kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com>
Subject: Nothing to do with anything
Message-Id: <199804122131.WAA23414ATnospamboober.lineone.net>
> The implication of the statement is the cold message that people get
> what they deserve. My personal bent is that I don't care for the word
> 'deserve'. Some people who read that statement may link it to karma, and
> from karma it is a small step to the dangerous New Age thinking of Alice
> Bailey. Alice Bailey would have you think she and her Masters and
> followers are extraordinarily compassionate. Someone may hop onto this
> list and latch onto that statement for the wrong reason.
OK. Well out of sheer dread that Alice Bailieys hopping neophytes may latch onto the wrong understanding of the word deserve. I will change it to serve. 'People get the truth they serve.'
No?
OK how about there is no justice in the world?
No?
How about whatever can be said is not true?
No?
Never mind - I'll deal with the Bailey Brigade in some other way.
> The other limitation of the word 'deserve' -- maybe in most contexts --
> is that it draws a movement of attention which I would describe as
> narrowing or shrinking or contracting or tightening, like a fist.
> If I am fixed in Reality or True Being, I would not be able to use the
> word 'deserve' -- again, perhaps not in any context. I would simply say,
> The truth is people find The Truth. But, let others finish the
> statement. Here are some options:
>
> The truth is people find the Truth ...
> they deserve
> they need
> they want
> they understand
> they can handle
OK
> I say, The truth is people find the Truth. I'm not judging where they
> are now or saying they are anywhere at all or that there is any 'they'
> at all. You are saying all those things, and this might serve to keep
> attention in a place that isn't the best.
Yes - I would judge you as pedantic.
> Try this test, watching your attention. Say to yourself, "The truth is
> people find 'the Truth' they deserve." Then say, "The truth is people
> find the Truth." Where do you prefer your attention to be? Why? Which is
> more compassionate? Which is the Guru more likely to utter? Which is
> spoken from the disposition of extraordinary compassion?
>
> And one final thing ... Adriannnnnnnn! .)
Depends on the situation. I think you have what you deserve. I wish you better.
Hopefully you will find some Guru or compassionate person to speak and use words in the way you deem correct or compassionate.
Not the best
Lobster
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