1998/04/06 21:14
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #273
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 273
Today's Topics: Re: KL : EGO [ "Jan Barendrecht" ]
Spiritual Magazine [ Anurag Goel ] Re: Master debaters? [ John Heaton ]
Re: chakras [ odie ] Re: screensaver therapy :-) [ PEGLUMPKIN ]
Harmony (poem) [ "Gloria Lee" ] Diversions of Experience [ "Ed" ]
Re: Enlightenment (One Mo' Time) [ anandajyoti ] Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:25:56 +0100
From: "Jan Barendrecht" To:
Subject: Re: KL : EGO Message-ID:
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Hi Sandeep,
This time it took me some time. Or put more accurately, one of my friends who has been working for an advertising agency. I asked him for an opinion
on your posts (actually, I "bought" his services in exchange for song I am making). This is what he told me:
"I would have offered this man a job immediately. He uses all the tricks of
the trade - I will explain to you. You always use arguments; you are wrong. Common people use feelings for communication - not arguments. He uses your
name many times - just to associate you with somebody lost in delusion for whom he can show compassion. It is very effective. I will show you another
example. His name and E-mail address suggests Bombay - anyway, somewhere in India. In India, poor people are miserably dying from starvation and illness
in the streets - he refers to this but doesn´t say it. Then he continues and suggests, you take another look at dying. He knows that in the West, the
majority dies under very different conditions - many sleeping peacefully or with a smile on their face. But the harm is done; again, I would have hired
this man immediately. Take my word for it: this man probably did not compose a single bar of music in his life! No doubt his writing skill brought him a
lot of vanity. Because your eyes are bad, I checked this for you and yes, I found these sites (there may be more):
http://www.elexion.com/lakota/textos/texto25b.htm whirlpools in the river
of life
http://www.elexion.com/lakota/textos/texto24b.htm#24 god is dead
I hope you get the message. Take my advice and exchange this NG for a NG about music if you do want to communicate with other people. You would do
your eyes a favor and me too. Successful writing is making an emotional wrapping first. Then you attach the message. With the proper emotional
wrapping, you can convey any message. It's the essence of advertising. This way, you don't have to be original. Judging content, he isn't."
Having digested the words of my friend, yes, Sandeep, there is a universe of
differences between us. It will save you a lot of time Sandeep, if you don´t have to reply to my comments anymore. So, dear Sandeep, let us continue life
on the basis of mutual respect but without replying to each others posts. Do you agree Sandeep, that this makes sense? For me it does, Sandeep.
Jan
> -----Original Message----- > From: Sandeep Chatterjee [mailto:sandeepcATnospambom3.vsnl.net.in]
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 1998 5:25 PM > To: Jan Barendrecht
> Cc: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com > Subject: Re: KL : EGO
> >
> Hi Jan, >
> I have been away over the weekend and I see lot of water has > flown under the
> Bridge of Ego. >
> Firstly all I wish to do here Jan is attempt some more clarity of what I > said earlier.
> I do not wish to convince you because for me Life is a mystery beyond the > tools of reasoning or logic. The mystery is "livable" not
> "solvable" for me. > So may I bow out of this game of analysis and paralysis.
> > Secondly Jan for me there are close to 2.5 billion paths to Truth or
> whatever was the last global population figure. Each is valid and I have > little interest to compare and contrast. Yes there are "imagined"
> paths but > for me even these are valid states of being.
> If one chooses to be "asleep" it is perfectly alright with me. >
> > Thirdly the key issue is not my words or path being espoused, it is your
> state of being as of now. > May I humbly suggest to you Jan, to let my words sit on you,
> get a feel of > them and if you find value- good.
> If you don't , cast them aside without any further ado or expending of > energy in refuting them as I have no case to affirm or seek converts for.
> Not even a case that I be seen as correct. >
> > Sandeep (earlier):I would say an enlightened person lives totally and
> completely in the NOW. >
> Does this imply that all others are living in the past or the future? > Becoming enlightened then, must be equal to time-travel : - ))
> > Sandeep:
> Forget everybody else. Look at yourself Jan. Do you or don't you > live in the
> past? And what is our normal sense of future? > Dear God (or whatever is one's Mantra) let such and such not happen again,
> or such and such did not happen, Dear God let such and such happen. > Our future is born from the seeds of our past.
> > It is only the Now which presents itself to us afresh, virgin but
> we look at > the Now with the eyes burdened by our past.
> For a being who "knows" the past, nay the moment that has passed does not > exist any more.
> > Jan:
> The evoking of the moment of now - why should it do anything at all? >
> Sandeep: >
> I do not have an answer for you. > May I suggest live in the moment totally and comletely "dead" to the past
> and arrive at your "knowing". >
> Jan: > A dead person does not analyze, think, interfere, choose, judge and act
> and it creates silence around it. Yet I wouldn´t call a dead person > enlightened.
> > Sandeep:
> There is also a state of being that does not analyze, think, > intefere, judge
> and "apparently" does not act and yet the most fundamental creativity and > actions appropriate to the moment occur through such states of being.
> In fact all fundamental "leaps" of discovery whether it be in Music or > Science takes place when one is dead to the "known".
> > Jan:
> Music gets created in the mind and not in or by an instrument. >
> Sandeep: > Is it Music of Re-Mixes that get created in the Mind?
> Any musician or for that matter a scientist who has created/discovered > anything original will acknowledge that what emerged through him/her had
> nothing to do with him/her or his/her "knowledge" of the subject. >
> >
> Sandeep: >
> >So to say such and such person became enlightened or even as some of the > >self confessed Gurus of today who affirm their enlightenment is BS.
> >Why? > >Because if there was still "someone" around to affirm, then
> really nothing > >has changed.
> >Rather a more correct description of the state would be........ I am no > >more, Isness Is.
> > Jan:
> Smiling... So the isness is stating it is only isness? >
> Sandeep: > A fundamental statement and I very happy that you did arrive at this state
> of enquiry. > Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
> That is because of the limitation in communication, both verbal as well as > through a medium as Internet.
> Truth spoken is false and anything said about Truth including > using the word
> Isness is taking you away from Truth. > Even to be silent while being much closer to Truth is still
> saying something > about truth viz that the quality of truth is silence.
> But tell me dear friend how to then communciate at all? > And that is why all those who "attained" spoke of What is NOT. On what IS
> they let the disciple find out for themselves. >
> > Jan:
> And please answer this question: If "I" am no more, where did it go and > whence did it come?
> > Sandeep:
> It never was, and will never be .The identification was the illusion. > Just like assume darkness as real and try to eliminate darkness. All your
> life you may spend your energy (and this is what you are trying to do in > trying to quiten the mind) and you cannot defeat darkness.Know for what it
> is, ie bring the Light of Awareness and in that instant darkness > is no more.
> > Sandeep (earlier):
> I am reminded here of the Zen Masters. The greatest contribution > of Zen for
> >me is the "demystification" of the whole gamut of enlightenment, Samadhi, > >Kundalini Awakening, Nirvana, Moksha etc.
> > >Asked what was the difference before and after enlightenment a Zen Master
> >laughed and said Now when I am hungry I only eat, when I am tired I only > >sleep.
> >In such an ordinary statement look at the profoundness. In our ordinarily > >life do we at all "only" eat or "only" sleep.This Zen Master is saying he
> >lives in the Now. >
> Jan: >
> The stray dogs I meet and feed when hiking do the very same. They > are hungry
> and only eat. When they are tired they only sleep. They are ever > living in
> the "now" but they don´t claim to be Zen masters. And they don´t hit me > with a stick
> > Sandeep:
> > You think so? Have you seen a dog dying? I once spent close to an hour
> watching a dog die. There was no struggle, there was no "Why Me", > there was
> only "let Thy Will be Done".There was total surrender, total acceptance. > And Jan next time don't shun away from a human being dying. Look
> at his/her > face till the last moment. You will "know" much.
> > Yes a dog lives in non-duality but is not aware of it's nature. Existence
> evolved into human being with no difference whatsoever except a > capacity to
> be aware of his own nature.This capacity is which differentiates this > evolution.
> > I am now somewhat exhausted and will attempt separately to answer
> your other > points.
> > In zikr
> >
> Sandeep >
> >
> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:26:27 PDT
From: "Gayatri S" To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: Discovering the reptile within Message-ID:
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> >Guitar S wrote:
hehehe...I like my new name :) one problem though....I don't know how to play a guitar...guess I gotta go take some lessons now :)
>Hello Gayatri !I strongly feel that your commentary on the poetry of Gopi
>Krishna is indeed, very succinct and well analyzed. >From another who is quite capable of making some meaning of any
nonsense, >for the other side of the same makes some sense.
>Anandajyoti >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
thanks Anand....hey how about giving you a musical name that begins with
A....let's see.........what do you think about Alpine Horn...or alapa? ya like?
by the way...I never considered any of Gopiji's words to be
nonsense...just a little hard to digest :) For me nothing is nonsense...or maybe that very thought/belief is nonsense. Well now I'm
confused...guess I'll go play that guitar now :)
Love, Gayatri aka Guitar...hehehehe
______________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 18:29:55 -0500 From: John Heaton
To: Imtgxxx CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Enlightenment (One Mo' Time) Message-ID:
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Imtgxxx wrote:
> Hellooo List....
> It is important to discover what your own definition of Enlightenment means.
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: REMOVE FROM LIST!!
Message-Id:
>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 18:32:59 -0400
>To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com >From: Diane
>Subject: REMOVE FROM LIST!! >
>REMOVE ME FROM THE LIST! Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:14:17 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
Subject: Spiritual Magazine Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Everyone,
There is a monthly Hindi Spiritual magazine called "MANTRA TANTRA YANTRA VIGYANA" . I have been taking the
magazine for nearly three years till now. i think the magazine will be of unparallel help to those who are
interested in spiritualusm.
Magazine basically deals with Mantras ,Tantras, Yantras,Sadhnas, Kundalini, Yoga, Astrology.
If anyone wants i can get the magazine subscribed to him/her.
Love,
anurag Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:16:22 EDT
From: Druout To: margolisATnospamtransbay.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: kundalini questions Message-ID:
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In a message dated 98-04-04 21:17:54 EST, margolisATnospamtransbay.net writes:
< What practice or experience caused your kundalini to
awaken? >>
Dear Dan,
Wonderful question! I think I was set off doing Hatha Yoga exercises. Also a new friend & I were discussing deep philosophical questions around that time.
Maybe it was a combination of factors
Love, Hillary Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 20:04:51 -0500
From: John Heaton To: Imtgxxx
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: Master debaters?
Message-ID:
Imtgxxx wrote:
> > (The moral of the story is.... I kick ass now since that day - no more Mr.
> Nice Gal... so bring your $$ when we go shoot pool)
John: Very wise little man you have!
Should we ever meet on the pool table, however, please do not lay down more than you feel comfortable losing! :-)))
>
> xxxtg >
> * I've got enough guilt now to start my own religion * >
> http://members.aol.com/Teeegeee/tgsplace.html >
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:26:35 -0700 From: anandajyoti
To: david.bozziATnospamsnet.net CC: Kundalini
Subject: Re: a poem Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
David Bozzi wrote:
> anandajyoti wrote:
> > > At least ,
> > somebody knows the difference of being unripe compared to the ripe ego, > > or is it vice versa.
> > The unripe ones are green, right?
Everything looks green on the other side,!Anandajyoti
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:16:51 EST From: LHodges942
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: A new Mantra
Message-ID:
While taking a long, hot soak in the hot tub tonight, with only one candle burning, the following mantra came to me, and I thought I'd share it with
anyone who wants it: While looking at the flame, either within or without, repeat with each exhaled
breath:
I AM THE FLAME THAT CONSUMES ALL
I AM THE FLAME
I AM THE SPARK THAT IGNITES THE FLAME
I AM THE SPARK
I AM THE I AM
I AM
I Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 23:10:16 -0400
From: odie To: anandajyoti
CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: chakras
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6C73D620EBB7A31E387B7470"
I profusely thank you for taking the time to answer my questions .I shall
try as you have suggested. I have looked in on your site and appreciate it being
there. odie
anandajyoti wrote:
> odie wrote: >
> > A question for the more experienced in K. when the K travels through > > the chakras
> > what will happen if the ch. are not pure and open. next ?. >
> Anandajyoti> Nothing much will happen, only the expectations which one > may have being unfulfilled will be depressing and make you feel unhappy.
> > > how do i go about purifying
> > the chakras to help speed K on its way up. >
> Anandajyoti> Through breathing, Awareness, Attention, Methodical > regularity, Self Observation and Reflection
> > > what are the best meditation methods to use to awaken K.
> > Anandajyoti> Observe your thoughts flow by, breathe naturally, with
> Awareness and focussing on the thoughts without attachment or > involvement. Gradually , you would observe thoughts recede, become more
> spaced from one to the other. This calms the mind. Sharpen the Awareness > of Being.
> > > Sorry for all the seemingly simple,stupid ?s but i am new and
> > learning and could use the wisdom i find on this post. Joe > >
> > Anandajyoti> No question which comes to the consciousness from the
> Universe, is ever wrong or right, and definitely they are not stupid may > be simple. Feel free to throw the questions as and when they arise and
> discern the inputs, from your state of your consciousness, then choose > according to your nature, what you may comfortable with and thrive and
> grow. >
> Anandajyoti > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/6782
> > >
> >
-- MZ‰
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From: PEGLUMPKIN To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: screensaver therapy :-) Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 98-04-05 15:00:18 EDT, you write:
< I have another screen saver I might be putting online before too
long...it's 7 chakra-colored 3-dimensional stars that start rotating and play a tone from a
Debussy-like whole tone scale when struck with pleasant-sounding random music as the result. It was just for fun...but I have a notion that it may
stimulate the chakras. At least mine buzz a bit when I watch it. :-) >>
I get a major kundalini "buzz" everytime I watch fractal patterns. For those who don't get results from pranayama, maybe watching fractals can achieve the
same results. It works for me.
Peg
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:30:52 PDT From: "Gloria Lee"
To: Kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Harmony (poem)
Message-ID:
~ Harmony ~
. We are but crickets In the forest called Universe.
Alone, each of us discordant... But together a song of peaceful
Splendor, cascading with life. . When one song dies,
Somewhere a star blinks out. For all is in harmony,
Perceived or not. . Smallness and largeness
Are concepts absorbed Like light from the sun
Into leaves of trees With rings uncountable.
. The echo of myriad lives Travels softly
On misty wings Of nebula,
Rising to greet The solar wind.
. We cannot be Out of tune,
For we are In It
And of It. . When I hear crickets
Sing, I smile...
And remember. . MEH/ATnospamCopyright 3/98
______________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:29:35 -0800
From: "Ed" To: "Kundalini list"
Subject: Diversions of Experience Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Talking of Zen Dogs and Enlightenment (Ch'an is the Chinese version from
which Japanese Zen sprang)
Peter D. Hershock's Liberating Intimacy: Enlightenment and Social Virtuosity in Ch'an Buddhism (SUNY Press, 1996).
Hershock theme is that: Enlightenment has to do with relationship -- not with any one individual's attainments -- and in particular with the
kinds of relationship in which everything is at stake and nothing is in principle
excluded as impossible. In short, Ch'an enlightenment should not be seen as private and
experiential in nature, but as irreducibly and intimately social."
In a section he titles "The Diversions of Experience" (pgs. 87-92),
Hershock writes:
"There is nothing closer to us than our experience. Experience is the ever-changing and yet perfectly continuous context of consciousness --
that in terms of which we are assured not only of the fact of our existence, but apprised of its depths and breadth. At least, this is the
conventional wisdom. . .
"Far from being an innocuous figure of speech, our conventional commitment to 'having experiences' severely distorts the movement of our
narration. To begin with, under its auspices we will tend to see as 'things that happen' only what we can comprehend, what we can achieve
closure with respect to -- even if only by naming and making the unknown into an absence we conveniently fail to inspect. Since comprehension is
a function of closing off inquiry -- that is, of projecting relevance horizons allowing us to determine that some "thing" 'is' -- experience,
and hence what happens, will become a function of discrimination. Not only does this drastically limit the creative potential of any given
situation, it sets up the precedent for confronting the world (and thus ourselves as persons) as sources of acceptance and rejection, grasping
or aversion. . .
"From a Buddhist perspective, then, the bias toward experience must be held wholly suspect. Philosophical hair-splitting aside, it is certainly
possible to insist that -- at least as we are conscious -- experience occurs. But inferring from this that experience is fundamental would be
like asserting that music is basically the organized movement of air molecules on the grounds that air moves whenever we play a musical
instrument. Just as music cannot be reduced to the fact of molecular kinetics, Buddhist enlightenment cannot be reduced to either
(subjective) experience or its (objective) counterpart of behavior. In a word, the realization of enlightenment is not a matter of 'fact' --
something that can be 'pointed out' -- but one of meaning. As such it cannot be the possession of any single individual but marks the
transformation of an entire narrative, a revolution of conduct."
Lobster Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:33:40 -0700
From: anandajyoti To: Gloria Lee
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com, ImtgxxxATnospamaol.com Subject: Re: Enlightenment (One Mo' Time)
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2A8B7BDA90853FF725F5F4A3"
Gloria Lee wrote:
> So tee gee, from her infinite wisdom states:
> > > >
> > > >* It doesn't matter who plays Batman *
> > >
> >
Supercharge the batmobile, it takes you anywhere you wannna
go.Anandajyoti
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Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 06:46:31 -0500 From: amckeonATnospamhsmail.nfld.k12.mn.us
To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com Subject: Re: A Community of The Spirit
Message-ID:
"Community is a safe place precisely because no one is attempting to heal
or convert you. Instead, the members accept you as you are."
-M. Scott Peck Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:47:16 -0400
From: Harsh Luthar To: Peswani
CC: kundalini-l Subject: Renaming Lobster (or not)?
Message-ID:
Peswani wrote:
> Energy and the process is moving in the direction as expected and > advised
> by this Guru/guide. This letter is to acknowledge thanks to Lobster(Ed > Jason), to Danijel, to K-list, to my daugter who fell sick, to my friend
> Prasad who came on vacation from Dubai and gave my daughter a Mantra cure > (saving an operation, pain and hospitalisation) and specially to
> Guru/Guide known by the name Swamy. >
> I have learnt that till I merge in my "Inner Voice", I have to pray to > Him. Even my inner guru "Inner Voice" has allowed me the freedom of
> choice. This prayer would not have been necessary if I had some Devotion , > love or faith for the Inner Voice, but Shahanshah has a big big ego.
Harsha: Beautiful insights and thoughts dear Peshwani. Your aspiration is
inspirational. It is always a joy to read your posts. Best wishes to your daughter and rest of the family. And yes Ed Jason has a beautiful heart. No
wonder his prayer is potent.
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