1998/04/06 21:11
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #268
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 268
Today's Topics: God is Dead [ "Sandeep Chatterjee" ]
Re: pranayama [ "Ed" ] Re: KL : EGO [ "Ed" ]
Re: The Weeping Guru-Lets Party! [ "Ed" ] Re: The Weeping Guru-Lets Party! [ "Gloria Lee" ]
Whirlpools [ "Sandeep Chatterjee" ] Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:15:08 +0530
From: "Sandeep Chatterjee" To:
Subject: God is Dead Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01BD60E0.4B407C20"
God Is Dead
WHO KILLED HIM?
We did!
We located Him and confined Him to the heavens, excluding Him from the earth.
We dared to make images of Him. We gave the Ancient of Days a long grey
beard and a human form.
We cast His role as lying at the beginning of creation,
with odd interventions here and there in history.
We only conceded to Him "Acts of God" strange capricious disasters
which insurance companies will not cover.
We restricted His worship to drafty, old, stone buildings, one day out of
seven.
We gave Him Who has no form as we know it, a human form,
and when a mortal human being reminded us of God's transcendence
we elevated that man into a deity.
Our scientists stole His laws, straight plagiarism.
The planets had moved in elliptical orbits for millions of years before Newton 'discovered' the Laws of Motion.
Lacking a Supreme Being we elevated nature to a position not hers.
Then we methodically set out to conquer this power, devastating land, sea,
our food and the very air we breathe.
Already satisfied that we had got rid of God, we revived an assembly of
lesser gods
that would have confused the Greeks, embarrassed the Romans and are the envy of the Hindus.
We are contemptuous of worship and prayer, yet we pass our lives in a
thousand empty rituals, adoring and propitiating a multitude of friendly and hostile gods.
We spend lives dedicated to eating and drinking.
Is this not worship?
We have committed ourselves to spending the greater part of our lives
making money,
and by that we make money our god, for no ascetic monk in his little cell ever showed more complete devotion.
We have restored the old idol of voluptuous sexuality, and its nubile form
graces our newspapers, films, our walls and our dreams.
It, in its turn, has rewarded us with venereal diseases, their sister AIDS and social disintegration
on an unparalleled scale.
We are too proud to bow before God, but we will crawl on our faces to the bank manager,
when we run into trouble on our mortgages.
We are, in fact, living our lives in order to buy our houses, like Pharaoh
who dedicated his reign
to building his pyramidical tomb.
With God passed away Heaven and Hell and in their place we put the fantasy,
never-never land of computer graphics and its fully-automated, centrally-heated, double-glazed, fast-food brothel which has unfortunately the terrifying potential to
metamorphose into the Gulag Archipelago, genocidal massacres and state tyranny as a way of life.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So God is dead
We killed Him.
Yet the God we killed does not exist anyway.
God one-of-three does not exist. God old man with grey beard does not
exist.
God remote above the heavens does not exist.
God of this or that people does not exist.
God who sent His son does not exist.
God as Avatars coming to save Humanity from time to time does not exist
There is no god,
But THAT
beyond all words, all definitions, all religions, all philosophies, beyond
the Gita, beyond the Bible, beyond the Koran beyond all mortal thought and
human conception
------------------------------------------------------------------------ THAT is One.
THAT is not located in any place, for if THAT were, THAT would be limited
and so,
not divine.
THAT has no form, for THAT is the ceaseless originator of all forms.
THAT eternally creates the entire cosmos, and THAT sustains every photon,
atom, cell and quasi-stellar object at every instant.
Without THAT they do not exist.
THAT sustains every living thing, Christian, Jew, Hindu or Atheist.
THAT is not the Lord of the Arabs or the Jews, or the Christians,
but Lord of the Worlds, of all beings and of all Being.
No thing resembles THAT, no image nor concept,
yet THAT is the Hearing, the Seeing.
THAT has no son, for THAT's son would have to be a god with limitless power
and it is impossible for two omnipotent beings to exist, they would limit
each other.
Anything limited is not a god.
THAT is terrible might and power, and sublime mercy and compassion.
THAT is far exalted above and yet THAT is useless
for if THAT was to be useful for anything a Goal, an aim, a destination
the Goal, the aim, the destination would be higher than THAT
and nothing is higher than THAT.
God is dead. THAT IS,
The Living Who does not die.
THAT is the Vast and no name can be named for THAT
even THAT.
Sandeep
Attachment Converted: "d:\slip\eudora\attach\kundal32" Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 07:43:09 PDT
From: "zarcon pitom" To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: TIme Change Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
Did you remember? Daylight Savings Time start today
if affected by this in your area set clock forward 1 hour
zarcon i am of the ages
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:54:59 -0800 From: "Ed"
To: "Kundalini list" Subject: Abundance according to the Holy Bible
Message-Id:
Abundance according to the Holy Bible
Luke 12: 22-32
And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye
shall put on.
The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.
Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better
than the fowls?
And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet
I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
If then God so clothe the grass, which is today in the field, and
tomorrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye
of doubtful mind.
For all these things do the nations of the world seek after; and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be
added unto you. Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:44:31 -0800
From: "Ed" To: ,
Subject: Re: pranayama Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> I say this to remind you of what you already know. You are all right,
> and none of you are wrong. Your feelings are real, they but indicate how > you chose to interpret certain input. So I ask you to look at how you
> interpret what has happened, and how you can choose it to mean a message > of love, and not a message of attack or guilt.
> > For in such a choice lies the key to The Kingdom.
> > (forgive my Christian background... ;-))
I hope it is all right for me always to be wrong?
I forgive you but I am not sure Allah will ;-)
Lobster (right as rain)
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 23:07:28 -0800
From: "Ed" To: "Jan Barendrecht" ,
Subject: Re: KL : EGO Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> But here (Canary Islands) the vast majority of (Canarian) dogs wont fetch
a > stick. Only unconverted foreign dogs do. Some of these Zen dogs are even
Chi > Gong masters: they crack almonds with their teeth. These almonds have
such a > strong shell, that no nutcracker survives more than a few of them.
Because > here are so many UFO sightings that the military wants to build a rocket
> base on one of the islands, there are some rumors that aliens from the Dog
> Star have landed here, disguised as Zen dogs. So at last, I know why some > dogs only eat dog food when forced to... They are vegans from the Dog
Star. > The original name of the Canary Islands: Dogs Islands. All canaries here
are > imported.
One of us is mad. I think it is the other three.
This kind of rambling (done seriously) is occasionally seen on the K forum and other lists. Such people do not acknowledge their chaos
- their madness - their crazy wisdom.
They have been swallowed by it.
Therefore Dear Friends, Be friendly to the crazy part of yourself
but control her wilder moments Show her the joy of the con-create mind
For with Stability and Freedom you become a child like adult
and are mature enough to not be (mature)
Seriously Lobster
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:59:27 -0800 From: "Ed"
To: , Subject: Re: The Weeping Guru-Lets Party!
Message-Id:
> Exactly which Sanscrit word translates into "gazoombas"?!?
All of them. Basically Sanskrit is a Holy language (like English when used correctly)
and all words can be reduced to their core meaning. The sense of touch and nutrition found in the mothers breast is inherent in all later
communication.
Lobster off to find some "gazoombas"
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 09:48:57 PDT From: "Gloria Lee"
To: Harsha1MTMATnospamaol.com, umbadaATnospamns.sympatico.ca Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: Re: The Weeping Guru-Lets Party! Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain
> >Harsha wrote:
>> Jerry! WHO is going down on WHO! Going down WHERE! WHERE Jerry! WHERE!
>> And HOW! O.K. Bring out the potato salad. I have worked up an appetite.
> >
>Jerry writes: >WHO? WHO? ... Oooooh! Yes! Of course! That's it! I see it now! WHO is
>... ... IT! I am it!. I am ENLIGHTENED!! ... is there any cole slaw ... >?
>Glo Lee: So now its coleslaw..huh?? Potato salad is passe?? Why am I always the
last to find out ?? These pesky Eternal Truths just won't stay still; I run out for more milk, check my email..and now you want coleslaw??
Do you even know WHAT you REALLY want Jerry??
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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:08:34 +0530
From: "Sandeep Chatterjee" To:
Subject: Whirlpools Message-ID:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01BD60DF.60398DC0"
Whirlpools in the river of life.
In flowing forward, a river or stream may hit rocks,branches, or
irregularities in the ground, causing whirlpools to spring up spontaneously here and there.Water entering one whirlpool quickly passes through and
rejoins the river,eventually joining another whirlpool and moving on.Though for a short periods it seems to be distinguishable as a separate event,the
water of the whirlpool is just the river itself.The stability of the whirlpool is temporary.
The energy of the river of Life forms living things-a human, a dog , a cat,
trees, stars, galaxies just like whirlpools.Then what held the whirlpool in place is itself altered and the whirlpool is swept away, re-entering the
larger flow.
We do not want to think of ourselves as whirlpools-temporary formations.We want to see ourselves as permanent and stable and separate from the
stream.To protect this supposed separateness we set up artificial,fixed boundaries and as a consequence we accumulate baggage, stuff that slips
into our whirlpool and cannot flow out.So things get clogged and stagnant pools are created.
The stream needs to flow naturally and freely.We serve the flow of Life
best if the water that enters ours is free to rush through and move on easily and quickly to whatever or wherever it needs to go.The energy of
Life seeks rapid transformation
How do we clog our whirlpools?
By our concepts, our conceptions, our beliefs,our holding onto our experiences, our defenses of our faith (what is faith -- I do not know but
I wish it was so....)
Just some thoughts ...............
AUM
Sandeep Chatterjee
Attachment Converted: "d:\slip\eudora\attach\kundal33" Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 06:42:52 -0700
From: onarresATnospaminreach.com To: Dan Margolis ,
"'kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com'" Subject: Re: kundalini questions
Message-Id:
Dan,
I didn't do a thing, it just happened. I still do not do the things that
one is supposed to do and She just keeps right on going. Spontaneous awakening... it happens all the time. dor
At 06:14 PM 4/4/98 -0800, Dan Margolis wrote: >I would like to propose another survey. For everyone on the list who's
>kundalini is awakened:What practice or experience caused your kundalini to >awaken?
> >Mine was/is simply za-zen(breath) meditation with attention paid to the
spine. >
> Dan M. >
>If this poll has already been done please refer me to the earlier posting on >it.
> >
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:55:09 +0530
From: "Sandeep Chatterjee" To: "Jan Barendrecht"
Cc: Subject: Re: KL : EGO
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Jan,
I have been away over the weekend and I see lot of water has flown under the
Bridge of Ego.
Firstly all I wish to do here Jan is attempt some more clarity of what I said earlier.
I do not wish to convince you because for me Life is a mystery beyond the tools of reasoning or logic. The mystery is "livable" not "solvable" for me.
So may I bow out of this game of analysis and paralysis.
Secondly Jan for me there are close to 2.5 billion paths to Truth or whatever was the last global population figure. Each is valid and I have
little interest to compare and contrast. Yes there are "imagined" paths but for me even these are valid states of being.
If one chooses to be "asleep" it is perfectly alright with me.
Thirdly the key issue is not my words or path being espoused, it is your
state of being as of now. May I humbly suggest to you Jan, to let my words sit on you, get a feel of
them and if you find value- good. If you don't , cast them aside without any further ado or expending of
energy in refuting them as I have no case to affirm or seek converts for. Not even a case that I be seen as correct.
Sandeep (earlier):I would say an enlightened person lives totally and completely in the NOW.
Does this imply that all others are living in the past or the future?
Becoming enlightened then, must be equal to time-travel : - ))
Sandeep: Forget everybody else. Look at yourself Jan. Do you or don't you live in the
past? And what is our normal sense of future? Dear God (or whatever is one's Mantra) let such and such not happen again,
or such and such did not happen, Dear God let such and such happen. Our future is born from the seeds of our past.
It is only the Now which presents itself to us afresh, virgin but we look at
the Now with the eyes burdened by our past. For a being who "knows" the past, nay the moment that has passed does not
exist any more.
Jan: The evoking of the moment of now - why should it do anything at all?
Sandeep:
I do not have an answer for you.
May I suggest live in the moment totally and comletely "dead" to the past and arrive at your "knowing".
Jan:
A dead person does not analyze, think, interfere, choose, judge and act and it creates silence around it. Yet I wouldn´t call a dead person
enlightened.
Sandeep: There is also a state of being that does not analyze, think, intefere, judge
and "apparently" does not act and yet the most fundamental creativity and actions appropriate to the moment occur through such states of being.
In fact all fundamental "leaps" of discovery whether it be in Music or Science takes place when one is dead to the "known".
Jan:
Music gets created in the mind and not in or by an instrument.
Sandeep: Is it Music of Re-Mixes that get created in the Mind?
Any musician or for that matter a scientist who has created/discovered anything original will acknowledge that what emerged through him/her had
nothing to do with him/her or his/her "knowledge" of the subject.
Sandeep:
>So to say such and such person became enlightened or even as some of the >self confessed Gurus of today who affirm their enlightenment is BS.
>Why? >Because if there was still "someone" around to affirm, then really nothing
>has changed. >Rather a more correct description of the state would be........ I am no
>more, Isness Is.
Jan: Smiling... So the isness is stating it is only isness?
Sandeep:
A fundamental statement and I very happy that you did arrive at this state of enquiry.
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? That is because of the limitation in communication, both verbal as well as
through a medium as Internet. Truth spoken is false and anything said about Truth including using the word
Isness is taking you away from Truth. Even to be silent while being much closer to Truth is still saying something
about truth viz that the quality of truth is silence. But tell me dear friend how to then communciate at all?
And that is why all those who "attained" spoke of What is NOT. On what IS they let the disciple find out for themselves.
Jan: And please answer this question: If "I" am no more, where did it go and
whence did it come?
Sandeep: It never was, and will never be .The identification was the illusion.
Just like assume darkness as real and try to eliminate darkness. All your life you may spend your energy (and this is what you are trying to do in
trying to quiten the mind) and you cannot defeat darkness.Know for what it is, ie bring the Light of Awareness and in that instant darkness is no more.
Sandeep (earlier):
I am reminded here of the Zen Masters. The greatest contribution of Zen for >me is the "demystification" of the whole gamut of enlightenment, Samadhi,
>Kundalini Awakening, Nirvana, Moksha etc.
>Asked what was the difference before and after enlightenment a Zen Master >laughed and said Now when I am hungry I only eat, when I am tired I only
>sleep. >In such an ordinary statement look at the profoundness. In our ordinarily
>life do we at all "only" eat or "only" sleep.This Zen Master is saying he >lives in the Now.
Jan:
The stray dogs I meet and feed when hiking do the very same. They are hungry
and only eat. When they are tired they only sleep. They are ever living in the "now" but they don´t claim to be Zen masters. And they don´t hit me
with a stick
Sandeep:
You think so? Have you seen a dog dying? I once spent close to an hour watching a dog die. There was no struggle, there was no "Why Me", there was
only "let Thy Will be Done".There was total surrender, total acceptance. And Jan next time don't shun away from a human being dying. Look at his/her
face till the last moment. You will "know" much.
Yes a dog lives in non-duality but is not aware of it's nature. Existence evolved into human being with no difference whatsoever except a capacity to
be aware of his own nature.This capacity is which differentiates this evolution.
I am now somewhat exhausted and will attempt separately to answer your other
points.
In zikr
Sandeep
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 10:17:28 PDT From: "Gloria Lee"
To: lobATnospamlineone.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, zymphtATnospambluewin.ch Subject: Re: A Community of The Spirit
Message-ID:
>From: "Jason S. White"
>
>i am a carnivore. life feeds on life. ideas feed on ideas. can i come out
>of prison with even this on my conscience? can the community of the spirit
>accept even a wolf, having bitten so many? >
>jason >
>Dearest Jason-Wolfie, Welcome to "Wolfs 'R US"...this is a very EX_clusive Club, including
only those willing to be admitted by admitting. Accepting the UN_Acceptable is our Raison D'Etre (Reason for Being). Please leave your
guilt at the door and join the party!!! Trading Stories is our favorite pastime here..."Sheep You have Bitten" sounds like a good one! No one
really cares How you got here, just glad to see you, Hon!! I admit have always had a soft spot in my heart for you, Jason.
Love, Glo PS. Watch your toes, Lobster bites, too!!!
>>There is a community of the spirit.
>>Join in, and feel the delight >>of walking in the noisy street,
>>and being the noise. >>
> >
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