1998/04/02 12:49
kundalini-l-d Digest V98 #256
kundalini-l-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 256
Today's Topics: Re: sat chit annand [ "Peter L. Sutphen" ]
infertility and miscarriages [ Delores Wheeler ] got Kundalini? [ Kathy ]
Arousal of K, Pranayama, channeling [ "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" ] Re: Arousal of K, Pranayama, channel [ Harsh Luthar ]
Re: pranayama [ Dan Margolis ] Want a joke... [ Anurag Goel ]
Re: Want a joke... [ David Bozzi ] IMHO, IMO, LOL & Other Email Abbrevs [ MMeyers541 ]
RE: Harsha's comments -chat (was Sha [ Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com (Dirk Hauet ] Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource [ Anurag Goel
To: , "Alan Smith" Cc:
Subject: Re: sat chit annand Message-ID:
"sat" -absolute, unchanging
"chit" -consciousness, awareness "ananda" -bliss
satchitananda -absolute bliss consciousness: the transcendent nature of the
Self/Atman -Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Harsh Luthar
To: Alan Smith Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 1:45 PM Subject: Re: sat chit annand
>Alan Smith wrote: >
>> Can someone please explain what "sat chit annand" stands for? >>
>> Thank you >> Alan
>> >
>Harsha: Sat-Chit-Ananda is another name for the Self. Sat means >Existence. Chit means Consciousness or Pure Awareness or Knowledge.
>Ananda means Peaceful Joy or Bliss. These are not experienced as three >separate attributes of the Self. Self is One Substance. It is Only What
>It Is. It is the Cause less Cause. It is Self Luminous and Self >Existent. The mind in interpreting or expressing the experience of
>Nirvikalpa Samadhi approximates it by calling it Sat-Chit-Ananda. The >Kundalini Shakti in reaching Its Source Merges with That and Reveals Her
>Self to be the Self It Self. That is the Paradox, the Magic and the >Mystery of Self Realization. What is Here is found to be There. Finding
>it "There" there is a Realization that "There" is only "Here" and "Here" >has always been Here all along! God bless everyone!
> >
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:57:04 -0800 From: "Ed"
To: , "'Harsha1MTM'" ,
Subject: Re: Harsha's comments -chat (was Shakti poll) Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Subject: Harsha's comments -chat (was Shakti poll)
> Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 4:50 PM
> KK: > Gosh, let me see if I can understand it on my own - that will save Jan
the > trouble. Maybe it is that shakti is omnipresent and therefore equally in
> all people. Is that it? Come on, did I get it?
No. Shakti is most in that which is equal. I am equal to you. You are equal to
me. If you learn from me I am your teacher and superior (and beneath you). If I place myself beneath you and learn from you, you are my teacher and
that is the superior attitude. Therefore power is equally unequal.
> Anyway, Harsha, if you are living in a state of non-duality, as your
> statements often would imply, > then we can all weep that before you attained enlightenment you did not
> perform actions that would have created the karma that would have made you
> a skillful teacher, capable of subtly drawing people into your view. Now > that you're enlightened there's probably nothing that you are inclined to
> do about it (and nothing the rest of us can do about it either).
Just as your advanced status is irrelevant so is Harsha's enlightenment. He
knows his "enlightenment" is irrelevant. We should weep at those who are sarcastic (like Lobster) whatever their status and weep tears of joy for
those who are joyful. I dare not :-) at you for you might consider it false and running away from my true feelings . . .
:-(
> And if a state of non-duality is not your living reality then I don't
know > why you have chosen to speak the way that you do. I can say that back
when > I used to talk that way, it was because I found it easier to feign an
> enlightened ``rap'' than to actually deal with the variety of unpleasant
> emotions that I truly had about things. Over time I realized how > unauthentic this was - and what the hell - nobody ever appreciated my rap
> for very long anyway.
You are still false. You accuse Harsha of falsity - I feel genuine joy in
his posts. Do not not judge him by yourself, rather judge me by what is best in you. You have good things to say and be - you can move into these
or you can think that me calling you false is designed to belittle you or to praise Harsha (who has far to go as he knows). Harsha is the memory of
your past falsity and the possibility of your future joy. Where will you go? Who will you be? What is your choice? Harsh on Harsha (and Lobster) or
friend of joy.
> All that I am able to gather from a good percentage of the discourse that
> you direct toward me is either: 1) you know something I don't or 2)
you've > realized something I haven't. In itself this would not be surprising.
Most > people do know something I don't and have realized something I haven't.
> However, most people 1) don't' point this out on a regular basis and 2) if
> I inquire they make an honest attempt to convey what it is that they know.
> From my perspective most responses you have given to my inquiries for > clarification have either been deflective (e.g. advanced practitioners
are > aware of this) or trivial (e.g. read Swami Sivananda's book on
pranayama).
We all deflect (I am a Lobster - I have a shell). However that is our fault and our responsibility to take on as much as we are able. You are analytic
and well reasoned this is a considerable skill. We are not in a contest or a race of who is more authentic or more advanced. We are friends. We are
friends come to share.
Hell sucks! Don't give in.
The heavenly Lobster Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 03:40:05
From: Delores Wheeler (Redirected by Richard Satin ) (by way of Mystress Angelique Serpent ) To: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: infertility and miscarriages Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please CC: all responses directly to Dolores.
*********** BEGIN REDIRECTED MESSAGE ***********
Does kundalini cause infertility and miscarriages and if so what can be done to allow the energy to flow and solve the problems?
*********** END REDIRECTED MESSAGE *********** Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 06:42:10 -0700
From: Stuart To: Mystress Angelique Serpent
CC: mistressATnospamdomin8rex.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: pranayama
Message-ID:
I'll take my, what you refer to as spiritual pride over your pseudo intellectual understanding of what your twisted ego classifies for you as enlightenment and
wisdom. (Pause-and listen to the ego rising now)
While I thanked you for your effort in your response, your comparisons to suicides and misunderstanding of a Yogi's attainment is IMHO is way off course.
To disagree with your analysis makes me the one at fault? My question, posted once, asked for a little more content. I actually received a
couple of responses that were explanative and understanable. To those people I expressed my appreciation.
One last thing Mystress (as I'm no respecter of persons), when you speak to me please refrain from such ways of expression as "no you won't" or equate my
sincere questions as whining. I am not part of your little psychodrama group.
Namaste, Stuart
Mystress Angelique Serpent wrote:
> At 14:51 01/04/98 -0700, stuartf wrote:
> >Joseph it was you who started the insults, you who has the ego problems, and > >you who clearly shows that you lack basic communication skills, including
> >basic listening skills. > >There's no reason to waste the bandwidth here but if anyone is interested
> >I'll gladly go back and show every post I made to this thread. > >
> > No, you won't. Don't even think about it.
> Take another look at what you are saying about others, O stuart the > proudly spiritual for 41 years.. look at the mirror. This is about you.
> > You whined repeatedly that no-one would give you horror stories of
> pranayana, breath control, so often that I was moved to give you some > rather personal examples from my own life. Not without some hesitiation.
> I felt my answer, and the effort I took to write it was dismissed, and > with some patronizing attitudes added in. I enjoy writing for it's own
> sake, but I prefer to give my attention where it is appreciated. (shrug) I > won't be in a hurry to respond to your requests for information in the
> future. >
> Tuning into the reasons behind the Yogi's reluctance to give you the > horror stories you seek, I got a metaphor. A story.
> Sometime in the seventies, some idiot discovered a new way to get high. > By jamming the door closure of a microwave oven, and sticking their head
> inside it while it was on, and microwaving their brain. Brain cells being > killed off by cooking creates a high, apparently. Also permanent brain
> damage, of course. > This was so ridiculous, that "Saturday Night Live" did a sketch on it,
> thereby broadcasting the idea to impressionable folks all over. The result? > Suddenly kids were being checked into hospital with microwaved brains all
> over the country. > Ditto for the liquid paper sniffers.
> All the warning labels on a can of draino, are not enough to keep some > folks from committing slow and painful suicide by eating it.
> Mebbie the question is not what makes pranayama so dangerous, > unsupervised, but rather whence comes this determined fascination of yours
> to know the horror stories? > What is that about??
> While you are at it, why not research the relationship between Tummo fire > and spontaneous human combustion? Tummo fire is also created thru attention
> to focused breathing, and focusing on the power chakra, among other things, > and from evidence of spontaneous human combustion, it is apparent that
> folks are catching fire from the inside out. Sure makes me wonder.. >
> Blessings, Mystress. >
> (bouncy 50's pop music...) > I asked the witch Doctor he told me what to say and he said
> "Oooh, eee, ooh ah ah, ding, dang, pranayama yin yang, > Oooh, eee, ooh ah ah, ding dang pranayama, Yin/Yang."
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:14:19 +0000 From: Kathy
To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: got Kundalini?
Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Somebody, I think it might have been someone I knew who went through a twelve-step program, once said that the process of living and learning is like peeling away
layers of an onion...I think this is a cool metaphor...and it can relate to Kundalini as well...my take on this:
Underneath the brittle thin skin...there is a tender layer that weeps easily and
can cause others to weep as well when that "energy" gets loose...sometimes the layer is hot and bitter, sometimes the next layer is sweet and savory, sometimes
the layers are tough and dry, sometimes green and thin and immature, but eventually there is a center that is revealed, and after the center is revealed
and other layers are stripped away, there is 'nothing' left...but the smell, the taste, the sensation, the onion-ness stays with you for a while. When the onion is
eaten, is it still not an onion?
Waxing metaphoric...
Delirium of the (waxing) crescent moon.
BTW, thanks for those who have been giving the foundling pup energy, he's doing much better today... and might get to come "home" this afternoon...keep up the
energy!
Brightest blessings! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:56:02 -0600
From: "Roberto Gonzales del Valle" To:
Cc: Subject: Arousal of K, Pranayama, channeling and a liitle question.
Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BD5E25.EDAD4B40"
Hi all:
I am concerned about something. It is my understanding that Kundalini awakening just happens. Forcinf it could be really danderous, what is the point anyway? attaining powers? (lol).
So the thing is, once it hapens to someone who doesn´t know a bit about what K is about this individual needs to channel that amount of energy in someway(s). Happily, some people find places like this and even the term "Kundalini". Sadly other people stay all their life struggling with an energy usefull in a lot of ways in their lifes but rough on an inside which is not aware of the real use of it.
So here goes the question:
The Pranayama postings -so common on the list these days- refer to the awakening or the channeling? and -excuse again the ignorance- what does IMHO mean?
Thanks in advance fot your concern.
Roberto.
Lima, Peru.
P.S: How often do you get the channeling done so the crown opens to unniversal conciousness?
Attachment Converted: "C:\SLIP\EUDORA\ATTACH\kundal12" Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 18:12:02 +0200
From: Danijel Turina To: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: pranayama Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Stuart,
At 06:42 1998.04.02 -0700, you wrote: >I'll take my, what you refer to as spiritual pride over your pseudo
intellectual >understanding of what your twisted ego classifies for you as enlightenment
and >wisdom.
>(Pause-and listen to the ego rising now)
I have been observing this... argument?.. about pranayama; not very interesting stuff... yawwwwn... but there were some very interesting and
insightful posts on that subject - and I personally find Angelique's posts to be the most beautiful among them. I really don't understand why you and
Joe started this fight, and I don't really care, I didn't like the energy of the posts much so I just read briefly and deleted. But since you
continue talking with the same personal disrespect to Angelique, I feel it would be a good idea for you to figure out what the #$%& exactly are you
trying to prove here. Twisted ego? Pseudo intellectual understanding? Are we talking about the same Angelique here? ;) Come on! :))
>While I thanked you for your effort in your response, your comparisons to
>suicides and misunderstanding of a Yogi's attainment is IMHO is way off course.
Well, it didn't seem off course to me. But well, that might be just
prejudice on my side, since I did pranayama and you can figure out my opinion on it from one post I wrote on this subject.
>To disagree with your analysis makes me the one at fault?
I think insulting people on the list makes you the one at fault - and you
did that repeatedly, I didn't follow your argument with Joe, but this message of yours is pure disrespect, frustration and insult. I actually
hate it, that's why I'm writing this reply. Frankly, I think your attitude sucks.
>My question, posted once, asked for a little more content. I actually
received a >couple of responses that were explanative and understanable. To those
people I >expressed my appreciation.
>One last thing Mystress (as I'm no respecter of persons), when you speak to me
>please refrain from such ways of expression as "no you won't" or equate my >sincere questions as whining. I am not part of your little psychodrama
group.
Well, since Mystress is the listowner, I think her comment was very much in place - this is no place for flame wars. I read this list for more than a
year now and in that time I didn't see any authoritarian behavior from List Mystress here - just flaming the guys who posted binary attachments, spam
of all sorts and pointless arguments (not to forget the folks who can't unsubscribe themselves and therefore need a babysitter:). Because of that
experience, I trust her judgment - she does a wonderful job guiding this list. I feel it would be for the best if you just bite your ego and go get
grounded somewhere, not wasting your energy on pointless insults. Have a nice day.
-----
E-mail : sinisa.turinaATnospamzg.tel.hr Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1377
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:39:16 -0700 From: stuartf
To: fredaATnospamblarg.net, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: pranayama
Message-ID:
freda,
Let me make a suggestion here. Take a step back, get a good look at the entire discussion and then make another assesment about the intention or
character of my postings. For me this is a very unique situation, one which I'm not going to be part of for much longer. I'm referring to
argumentive one-sided judgemental accusations hurled at me for nothing more then asking a question and expressing my concern about the validity of
statements that lacked reason and definition.
You say I'm mean and nasty, so be it. Are you suggesting that I back down when someone challenges my integrity and character, or insults you under
the guise of more experience in spiritual matter. Such incredulous statements implying that I'm a racist, spiritually proud, or that my
inquisitive nature is an offense to spiritual knowledge is not going to win me over. Of course I could be the bigger person and not dignify these
ridiculous remarks but that will not make me better spiritually.
It's an interesting dynamic of many spiritual groups where people gain some knowledge and familiarity with some path and make of themselves experts,
pointing their fingers at those they consider to be mere novices and in need of their chastisement and direction. I didn't subscirbe to this list
for either discipleship or judgement.
Thanks for your patience and time in reading this answer.
Ararita Stuart
freda wrote:
> Stuart,
> Are all your posts going to be mean and nasty? > I for one am sensitve to mean spirited people and it is getting to be
> rather annoying. > If this you are not going to contribute anything constructive I'd like
> to know now so I can delete your messages. > If this is just a bad cycle your going through then I'll hang in there
> with you until it passes. > freda
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 12:23:41 -0500 From: Harsh Luthar
To: Roberto Gonzales del Valle CC: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, solarlionATnospamyahoo.com
Subject: Re: Arousal of K, Pranayama, channeling and a liitle question. Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Roberto Gonzales del Valle wrote:
> So here goes the question: The Pranayama postings -so common on the
> list these days- refer to the awakening or the channeling? and -excuse > again the ignorance- what does IMHO mean? Thanks in advance fot your
> concern. Roberto.Lima, Peru.
Harsha: Roberto, Pranayama is considered an important practice in many Yogic traditions. It is certainly not an essential practice in every
tradition. Self-Realization does not depend on Pranayama. However for many people breathing exercises may be suitable for mental and spiritual
development. Good books on Pranayama have been written by Swami Sivananda of Rishikesh. His book on Kundalini Yoga is also good. Swami
Rama's "The Path of Fire and Light (Vol.1)-Advanced Practices of Yoga may be suitable for advanced practitioners. Two of Swami Sivananda's
disciples, Swami Vishnudevanand and Swami Satchitananda wrote basic books on Hatha Yoga which have suitable instructions on Pranayama as
well. There are many other good books for beginners. If you have not already done so, you might wish to read my paper on Kundalini Yoga which
contains important cautions about pranayama and meditation practices.
The Spiritual Experience and the Awakening of >Kundalini Shakti in Tantra Yoga
>http://www.telebyte.nl/~frans/kundalini/harsh.html >
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:54:49 -0800 From: Dan Margolis
To: stuartf CC: fredaATnospamblarg.net, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: pranayama Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This is just too funny... Stuart, Stuart, Stuart what's so important? I've
read through the Pranyama thread and I see some slightly tactless comments but no direct assaults on your INTEGRITY. What's being challenged? your
thoughts, your opinions, your ideals? Everybody has thoughts and opinions...They are of no consequence... This is just e-mail not a public
dissertation on the wrongs of Stuart...
You seem determined to make this a very hard thing... Let it go... Of course this is just more chastisement and direction from a spiritual novice so you
don't have to listen. But I get the feeling the more you try to preserve your dignity, the more you try to defend yourself the harder this is going to be...
Are we talking about world-peace or differences of opinion on breathing
exercises? (I'm saying this to belittle the importance you've placed on this discussion.) Ask yourself, even if everybody on this list thought I was a
complete fool, even if not a single posting was read as it was intended, would it require me to get angry and confrontational?
Everybody throws around argumentive one-sided judgements... That doesn't mean
they're important.
If you hold your dignity as so precious I'm sure you'll figure out some way to preserve it...
Still laughing
Dan M. Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:49:54 -0800
From: freda To: stuartf
CC: kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: pranayama
Message-ID:
Stuart, I posted to you personaly because I wasn't looking for an arguement with
you. so ya jump me on the list.
I did not say you were mean and nasy,
I *asked* IF your POSTS were going to continue to be mean and nasty.
guess they are...
sorry your in such a snit.
freda Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:28:09 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com"
Subject: Want a joke... Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Everyone, Can you give me a good and nice joke. I have made
someone(Girl) angry and sad.I want to make her happy. Reply soon
Love, anurag
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 02:08:15 -0800 From: "Ed"
To: "Kundalini list" Subject: Re: pranayama
Message-Id:
Stuart did say unto Angelique: > To disagree with your analysis makes me the one at fault?
Lobster croaketh thus:
That is correct. To be disagreeable enough to think disagreement is not a fault - is a fault.
And Stuart did further say: > One last thing Mystress (as I'm no respecter of persons), when you speak
to me > please refrain from such ways of expression as "no you won't" or equate
my > sincere questions as whining. I am not part of your little psychodrama
group.
Lobster further croaketh thus: Yes and when you speak to me please do so in the way I prefer. I also am no
part of this group (henceforth known as "Angeliques little psychodrama group").
Also please refrain from speaking with disrespect towards yourself - I will provide this service for you.
And also kindly allow me to whinge and whine and generally behave in any way I wish (but you must fulfill my expectations of what is right)
I am a very serious and sincere person and talking about putting your head in a microwave is not funny.
Taking a deep breath before going red . . .
The faulty psychdrama known as Lobster Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:15:34 -0500
From: David Bozzi To: Kundalini
Subject: Re: Want a joke... Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Anurag Goel wrote:
> I have made someone(Girl) angry and sad. I want to make her happy.
You did not make her sad nor can you make her happy.
David
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:09:48 EST From: MMeyers541
To: 930359ATnospamaloe.ulima.edu.pe Cc: kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com
Subject: IMHO, IMO, LOL & Other Email Abbrevs. Message-ID:
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 98-04-02 11:06:18 EST, you write:
< what does IMHO mean? >>
Hi Roberto, Think I've figured out that one: In My Humble Opinion IMO: In My Opinion
If I'm wrong, someone please correct me--Michele
P.S. Am still trying to figure out LOL (Lots of Luck???)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:35:42 -0500 From: Dirk_HaueterATnospamhrsoft.com (Dirk Haueter)
To: "kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com" Subject: RE: Harsha's comments -chat (was Shakti poll)
Message-ID:
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
Dear Kurt,
Something very interesting that you wrote:
IMO change does appear in the personalities of the enlightened. All kinds of things continue to change from the point of view of the one who is not
established in the unchanging view. I've seen saints cry or get angry when things occurred. Who knows what karma still is around or what the karma is of
the universe that surrounds the saint. The only thing different is the enlightened one does not identify with that change. To that one it is all the
Self.
I'm sorry you find the personality of Harsha an annoyance. Maybe it is not your wavelength maybe you can filter it out. Or you could enlist the help for the
ever helpful Lobster. He has had some experience in training Gurus. :-) Cheers,
Dirk Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:17 +0530 (IST)
From: Anurag Goel To: Ed
cc: voltronATnospamvoy.net, kundalini-lATnospamexecpc.com, kundalini-lATnospamlists.execpc.com Subject: Re: AutoPost from Kundalini Resource Center
Message-ID:
Hi Ed,
Lovingly and beautifully put.
Love, anurag
>
> My Dear Friend, > Meditate in this way:
> > Bring your attention to the time of great Bliss.
> Remember how it felt, feel and sense through the memory of that bliss. > Do not try and bring it back but remember and recall and flow more into the
> memory. Explore the sense of joy, the feeling of freedom. Start to place > more and more of your being into the Bliss.
> You will begin to feel and understand a greater maturity and sober form of > bliss. Give it time and commitment.
> Move the bliss that you remember into the depression, sadness and regret. > See and feel it radiating away this negativity. Think in terms of years to
> achieve the bliss, instant results come and go. Let us try and and find and > maintain.
> > GREAT JOY to you
> Lobster >
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